RE: The numbers don't add up

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: The numbers don't add up

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RE: The numbers don't add up - 12/28/2004 3:22:56 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Dont lose heart it aint over yet.

I still say prepare a fall back position in North India and start building forts.

You need to stretch him out. (The VP's may work against you on this one I acknowledge this but hey you may as well try)Keep doing what you are doing conduct a fighting retreat but dont forget the auto victory is in 43 a lot can happen in 6 months one lucky bomb and he needs another 1000 points at 4 to 1 to get auto.

I would keep doing what you are doing a fighting withdrawal dont be afraid to give up Calcutta when your Burma forces are back on the rail net additionally I would question the wisdom of committing further forces piecemeal unless you have no choices.

I would use the Aussies and the 5th Indian on the Delhi - Ahmabad line get them prepping for it now as without forts even 1 or 2 Divisions will not stop 7 (and will be flanked if they do).

Delay Delay Delay in central India dont get cut off at Calcutta and start preparing your lines of torre vedras if he walks into a pair of frsh 100% preped divisions behind lvl 6 or 7 forts at the end of long supply line where his bombardments are useless where he has to garrison and take lots of coastal bases its all troops he cannot afford to commit as your warmachine comes on line in the Pacific.

You have avoided what I do in all my games your US CV fleet is intact.

You have US Infantry and Marines arriving in greater strength every day.

I say cling on as hard as you can (as you are doing !!!)

And keep stretching him.

Come on Wobbly you need to show all the IJA warlords out there why messing with India is a bad idea (or we will all end up defending India)

(in reply to Strv103C)

Post #: 301

Karachi next target??? - 12/29/2004 12:27:25 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

THis is the AAR of two days ago. I already have the next turn from PzB so can enlighten you of event that have occured hence.

OK gents - never going to give up - just reading what's on the wall. My calculator was broken by the way - he needs 4000 points not 2000 - ahem. Still very doable if he gets Karachi - so more on that today.

Andy: as you say - the defense of Calcutta may have to halt as I look to shorten the lines. The problem with this is he manages to get all his units together in one location rather than willy nilly all over the place.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/19/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Lunga at 67,97

Japanese Ships
SS RO-67, hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Perth, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DMS Trevor
APD Stringham
APD McKean

The Jap sub camped at Lunga puts a torp into Perth - she is at 40 sys, her escorts sink the sub. Having managed to break the back of the units stationed at Lunga, and not managed to entice the Jap bombers out of teir hole, this force retire. I will use them as a supply fast transport mission back to Lunga.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Trimcomalee , at 15,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 13

Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 17
Buffalo I x 15
Blenheim IV x 12
Wellington III x 45
Beaufort I x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 11 destroyed
G3M Nell: 14 destroyed, 12 damaged
Ki-46-II Dinah: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged
Buffalo I: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 damaged
Wellington III: 4 destroyed, 21 damaged
Beaufort I: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
244 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 24

My attacks on Trim bare very good fruit - 30 ACs lost to my 5 - keep telling yourself: 4 to 1! Thats 120 points he has to make up. All the bombers were moved out to Karachi - much more on that later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 19,24

Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 2
Beaufort I x 4

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Nichiren Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire

Some of the Swordfish and Beauforts stationed at Columbo reach into the Bay of Bengal ans start hitting shipping there. There are two other strikes, one hitting nothing and another damaging an AP and a CL.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 8,14

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 10
B5N Kate x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Kalgan, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

His carriers did not chase me!!! THey move sedately Northwest and happen upon an AK and the stricken DD Vendetta. Both are sunk - and more importantly the instigators are the bombers of A1 and AII. This means at least teh Shok or Zuik are in teh bunch. If they are there it is most likely all of them are there - again more on this later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 30,34

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 8565 troops, 49 guns, 96 vehicles

Defending force 8287 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 14 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
552 casualties reported
Guns lost 15

Well, despite a legitimate location for these Jap units to retreat to they continued to refuse to do so. IN the end he attacks and forces them to retreat to the hex I wanted them to go to! Now of course they are stuffed and ordered back to Mandalay
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bangalore

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 56429 troops, 386 guns, 5 vehicles

Defending force 3526 troops, 28 guns, 5 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 49 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bangalore base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
292 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

He attacks and takes Bangalore. Two units - the Madras base unit (which I cannot retreat) - and a Dutch air base unit are spanked. Now the Madras base unit is again stuck on the road to Hydrabad. All other units had already retreated towards that destination.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lunga

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 6558 troops, 52 guns, 5 vehicles

Defending force 237 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 227 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

It is hard yacca - they just refuse to give up - in fact they attack with their swords and I still sometimes loose more than they do.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the second day. My Brit Carriers had sprinted towards Karachi. With the revelation that the big boys of the KB were included I thought I was toast. However he has not followed and a hapless Bettie manages to scout the Surface Combat unit again - other wise I would have been lost.

Why is he not persuing?? I have come to the conclusion that he is about to mount an end run on Karachi. He is not persuing because the carriers are defending his invasion force! He has BBs here as well - why bring them unless he plans bombardments?

I have to defend Karachi at ALL COSTS!

The surface forces will retreat to Karachi. I will play a game of peekaboo with his carrier planes - some in port - others not. The ones not in port will be targets for incoming raids (hopefully stopping port raids) and speed bumps for bombardment TFs. He is a very long way from supply for these ships and they wont be able to bombard and take part in surface actions for very long.

The two carriers however will not go to Karachi! They take a DD and a CL and head due south - still sprinting. I desperately want to get to the south of his carriers and then damaged ships or invasion reinforcements better watch out!

On the land the 5th Indian Division - nearly at Bombay - moves back towards Karachi. It wont go all the way as Bombay may yet be the target. I still have 3 base units, an HQ and the newly arrived UK brigade in Karachi. Hopefully - with size 9 forts - there will be enough time for the 5th to get back.

All my heavy bombers are at Karachi on search - I have to catch a glimpse of APs if they are there. Then they will move to Bombay or inland fields to hit the INVASION FLEET. Thats right I will try to restrict the range the bombers fly from to that of Karachi only. Then heavily escort them with Brit fighters. The defense of Karachi itself will be undertaken by the foreign fighter units.

More on the Oz unit: half are right up in the North Western corner, the other half are on the western side of the map - about at the same Latitude as Panaji. Obviously if he has carriers at Karachi I can't land them here. I will wait until the temperature goes down a little and then try and sneak in. It is still a very long way for his long range bombers to take part in this attack. Madras may be in for a few heavy bomber raids.

Hermes and her sqd of P-40s and Wildcats is now vital to the effort. She has barely started moving up towards India though. I have fuel for their resupply though so now the ships go to full speed.

Back in the Pacific Nighthawks is about to kick off. The 5 carriers are Port attacking Tarawa (weather permitting) followed by BB bombardment. THen another BB bombardment in the following turn - then the minesweepers and Americal Division have the rugged propasition of taking on these fanatical land units.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 302

Nighthawk is joined - 12/29/2004 10:43:06 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

PzB unleashes all his bombers - I think mainly in an attempt to find and swamp my bombers. He Brit carriers luck - somehow - continues. Nighthawk starts with air strikes on Tarawa.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/21/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 5,27

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
DD Nagatsuki

Allied Ships
AK Nora Moller, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage

The damaged Ise comes across an escaping AK - Ise may be damaged but a AK is just easy sport. Glug Glug. Ise is retiring after wearing two torps form the swordfish I would imagine. She is keeping a wide berth of Columbo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Diamond Harbor , at 28,23

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 26
G4M1 Betty x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 8 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 14 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Ramilles, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
BB Revenge, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Warspite, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
Vehicles lost 1

Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 2

Oh dear - massive attacks on the BBs at Diamond harbour again. I had started to evacuate the Warspite - she was at 60% damage - but she wears enough HE to be at 71% damage now. Ramilles, who was down to 92% sys damage, is back to 99%. Sigh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Calcutta , at 29,23

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30
Ki-21 Sally x 47
Ki-48 Lily x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
85 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 20
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 95

Another very heavy attack on Columbo. I am off chasing grounded aircraft so have not been trying to stop these raids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Chinese Division, at 30,33

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 51

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

He is now bombing the Chinese I have across the river form Rangoon. Thos turn I move some Lysanders to Pagan to LRCAP the chinese. Hopefully I can bring down a sally or two.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hyderabad , at 20,17

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
G3M Nell x 33
G4M1 Betty x 43
C5M Babs x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

He hammers Hyderabad with no outcome - the bombers are well off there mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Colombo , at 14,24

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 8
Ki-21 Sally x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 5 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied ground losses:
56 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Columbo suffers more from less bombers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tarawa , at 85,91

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
SBD Dauntless x 99

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 5 destroyed, 29 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
398 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Port hits 3
Port supply hits 10

Very little in the way of damage to the port but apparently 6 guns lost: all helpful against the maelstrom the Americal will meet when they land. I actually loose 3 SBDs, but a quite a few are damaged.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Calcutta

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 90349 troops, 512 guns, 426 vehicles

Defending force 58740 troops, 350 guns, 478 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 6

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 6)

Japanese ground losses:
1029 casualties reported
Guns lost 21
Vehicles lost 5

Allied ground losses:
1323 casualties reported
Guns lost 28
Vehicles lost 7

Damn - I loose another level of forts and more men than he does! The good news is the forts were nearly to level 8 so are instantly at 7 again. I think he is going to try and hit Calcutta very hard while my attention is elsewhere.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lunga

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 6494 troops, 51 guns, 4 vehicles

Defending force 165 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 87 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
267 casualties reported

At long long last the NLF at Lunga is destroyed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Brit Carriers are very close to the West Coast of India - just North of Panaji. I have made a large and dangerous mistake here: the surface group, while pointed at Karachi, still had follow orders and has also come all the way down the west coast! The smaller escorts of the Carriers have made it to Karachi - they may be the only survivors.

So. The Carriers via off back out to sea, they are very close to the betties and Nells now. This is the most dangerous move of the cat and mouse. I still don't know where his carriers are, and he hasn't apeared on the way to Karachi. So going back out to sea may walk them straight in to the carriers clutches!

The surface unit is going to head for Bombay. I have located all of the Brit Hurricanes and other units here, plus the two Oz kittyhawk sqds. Hopefully this is enough to stop any incoming naval bombers.

The weather is again thunderstorms. Knowing this, and knowing he is likely to have his naval bombers on anti-naval strikes again, I have put the heavies back to Columbo with orders to hit Madras. They have 1 sqd of Buffalos (which are still very handy due to their range) escorting, with the Warhawks based at Hyderabad and on escort aimed at Madras as well. I have a very nasty feeling that Columbo may be up for a bombardment, I am rolling th edice (which have been loaded againstme lately) and hope that at last the worm has turned.

Further south the Hermes is making very good ground. She should be in range - along with the Wildcats and P-40s - in about 4 turns. I hope Columbo is operational to receive them!

In the South Pacific some bad news: Rabaul has 18!!! units. I have no idea of size but I am leanign towards small as recon has not noticed large TFs going in at all. I hae 3 Divisions plus numerous other units aimed here, with 1 Marine unit in reserve - I hope this is enough.

Nighthawk continues. The Carriers close the range and this time the Devastators get a roll at the troops and facilities. They will be ably backed up by 3 BBs and cruisers of a large Bombardment TF. I imagine there are CD units on the ground so no DDs are taking part at present. I don't think we will get any landings next turn although it may be possible in the afternoon. Weather is again poor. 2 wildcat sqds are still handed LRCAP detail over the landings.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 303

RE: Nighthawk is joined - 12/29/2004 6:07:01 PM

asdicus

Posts: 260
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Surrey,UK
Status: offline

Continuing to enjoy this brilliant story.

After Tarawa why not go for something a little less ambitious on the road to rabaul? There are plenty of bases between lunga and rabaul which will allow you to base your growing airpower. Then bomb and starve rabaul to death. A fullfrontal assault may sound exciting but in mid 1942 it is madness for the allies if the japanese have built up the base. Again I urge you to keep the carriers safe til late 42 early 43 - if you get them sunk now you are going nowhere in the pacific til mid 1943.

Re india churchill expects everyman to do his duty etc ! You must be really unpopular with the british navy at the moment - sending lone ships to keep the carriers busy ! Would it not be better to move ships to port say karachi and then attract a carrier strike with massed fighter defense at 20000'? Your aa fire may down a lot of bombers and in port few ships will sink. Another option is to use the british carriers as bait to draw the jap carriers south then sneak in the aussie transports to karachi. Also why not keep some planes on naval attack at say bombay - if he is moving north with other ships apart from carriers you might get lucky. By the way what happened to all the dutch subs ? They have good torpedoes but I see no sub actions. Sorry if I missed an earlier report re their loss.

Finally don't give up in india - make em pay for every yard of ground.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 304

Tarawa smashed - 12/29/2004 11:46:25 PM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Nighthawk continues at pace now. Bombers from Columbo find more aircraft on the fields in Madras. The Brit Carriers continue to allude the Japs.

Asdicus: A very nasty turn for him in regard to Tarawa. Read on for more info but I think he was quite happy with defense there, but hopefully this turn and the next will persuade him that the allies - left alone in the Pacific - still have plenty of punch. He hammered me with his BBs in India and the DEI - payback time

Rabaul may be a step too far but the crux for me was his inability to resist it - unlike at the Marshals. He has a major base in Rabaul itself and another at Lae, otherwise there are only size 1 airfields that he appears to only be basing search planes at. He does not have the same engineering capacity that I do so what I should be doing is smashing Lae from PM, doing what I can to Rabaul from PM and then following this up with the BBs. Then he only has Truk and at that range the zeros can't join the party! I will take fearsome losses but he already let slip that he has based many engineers at Rabaul so they are not as fearsome as infantry units - another bonus (kind of) is he has a retreat hex - his units may bug out earlier than on an atoll.
You hit the nail on the head with the Brit Carriers. They have again managed to sidestep the enemy and he HAS been drawn south - read on

The tactic of moving surface units into a port and having him flying against your AAA and fighters is a good one if your fighters CAN fight. Mine can't really

Only the imports are any good. I was ready to loose the whole RN to save Karachi and you can't tell me the Bulldog himself was not as ruthless when it came to the defense of Mother England or with the final vicotry in mind - wrong war but look at the Dardanelles (close to my heart that one) and Norway (if only he had captured the Norwegian

) So a few tripwire ships are easy to spend if the final result is I keep India because the Aussies got through...
In the upgrade form version 1.1 to 1.2 allied sub doctrine got turned on for some reason. I have therefore been fighting the game without one of my most capable weapons - they just do not work. Any sub contact you see is me running not attacking.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/22/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 55
G4M1 Betty x 22

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wirraway: 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
T.IVa: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Runway hits 5

A massive night strike from Truk on PM is more realistic. Before this would have meant half the planes on the ground being lost. I retire a group of P-39s and some bombers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Tarawa, at 85,91

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Nashville
CL Phoenix
CA Vincennes
BB Mississippi
BB New Mexico
BB Tennessee

Japanese ground losses:
1358 casualties reported
Guns lost 17

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 51
Port hits 1

At last PzB feels the wrath of a Naval bombardment including BBs. There is nowhere to hide on the little island and many of the guns I was worried about are dismantled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Madras , at 18,21

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 10
Blenheim IV x 11
Wellington III x 46
B-17E Fortress x 32

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 11 destroyed, 9 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 12 destroyed, 23 damaged
H8K Emily: 2 destroyed
G3M Nell: 13 destroyed, 21 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 6 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Wellington III: 11 destroyed, 11 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
367 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 54

Another heavy bomber attack on Madras nets many ACs on the ground. I dont' get it all my own way though as his zeros take to my Wellingotns and Buffalos (unfortunately teh P-40s at Hyderabad were downed by weather. I loose 12 ACs today to his 31.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Chinese Division, at 30,33

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 6
Ki-51 Sonia x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
2 casualties reported

These guys are attacking my Chinese behind the river - I don't know what happened to the Lysanders???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tarawa , at 85,91

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 36
SBD Dauntless x 123
TBD Devastator x 75

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
64 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 29
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 5

Adding to Tarawa's pain come the ACs from the Carrier groups. This turn the carriers are moving north of the island by 2 hexes to attempt and intercept of any surface units coming to the party. The planes have alternative missions of ground attacks and the torp bombers have anti-ground orders.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Tarawa, at 85,91

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
CL Nashville
CL Phoenix
CA Vincennes
BB Mississippi
BB New Mexico
BB Tennessee

Japanese ground losses:
772 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 39
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 8

The afternoon bombardments are also very heavy. My BBs are almost out of shells though so they retire towards Luganville to replenish - that is a very long haul. The second group of BBs goes in tonight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1028 encounters mine field at Tarawa (85,91)

TF 1028 troops unloading over beach at Tarawa, 85,91

Allied Ships
DMS Zane
DMS Hopkins
DD Morris
DD Hughes
PG Niagara
DD Chew
CA Salt Lake City, Mine hits 1, on fire

Coastal Guns at Tarawa, 85,91, firing at TF 1028
3 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Morris
DD Anderson

Allied ground losses:
563 casualties reported

With the devastation wraught by the heavy guns the landings are not as viscious as I thought they might be. The Salt Lake City has sys damage of 18, she will stay with the fleet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Calcutta

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 61403 troops, 307 guns, 789 vehicles

Defending force 57183 troops, 328 guns, 432 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 7)

Japanese ground losses:
2069 casualties reported
Guns lost 43
Vehicles lost 14

Allied ground losses:
1141 casualties reported
Guns lost 17
Vehicles lost 7

The size 7 forts, back up again as previously reported, manaage to help bloody his nose at Calcutta. The numbers he attacked with - especially in guns - wre almost equal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 18,19

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 21761 troops, 198 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 1528 troops, 7 guns, 1 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 25 to 1

Allied ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

This is the hill hex to the North East of Bangalore where the Madras base unit retreated to. Only 1 division is attacking me here. As he reported there are in fact another 5 in the location!! I go back to prolonged retreating.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tarawa

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2666 troops, 18 guns, 14 vehicles

Defending force 5827 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese ground losses:
152 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Allied ground losses:
231 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 1

Since it is an atoll invasion I must suffer a shock attack straight up. With the small numbers I have ashore this is not completed successfully. The troops are set back to the defensive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Trivandrum

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 365 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Trivandrum base !!!

I loose the little base in the bottom left corner of India. No much space left for a lot of Indians to live.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have found the Jap CVs. It does appear they were following my carriers. I still have no idea why he was moving so slowly, maybe trying to herd me into a corner? The surface force at Bombay is not actually scouted this turn. It gets orders to retreat to Karachi - most of the Brit fighters follow them (naval bombers based at Madras managed to hit Karachi today - severely damaging a PG).

The Brit carriers will continue out to the South West and reindevous with a tanker - they are short on fuel after all their sprinting. Also the swordfish - previously moved up to Panaji are flown out and reunited with their carriers. What I really want is for him to worry about his own supply lines and retire the carriers back down south.

Anticipating this the Aussies in the West continue up towards the top Western corner, and the ships already there make haste towards Karachi. I have many bombers on scouting missions and a couple of tripwire ships trying to keep tabs on him.

The bombers at Columbo scatter back to the interior, but this time I reinforce Columbo with Warhwaks and Kittyhawks. He usually tries to bomb Columbo after a raid from there to hit planes damaged - he also does not always escort them very well. If this is to happen again I want to hit the attackers (as much as defend the repairing planes - including 15 damaged B-17s!)

This massive outlay of enemy troops on the road to Hyderabad has once again changed my mind. It appears likely he IS coming East. With these numbers I am in serious strife. The troops on their way from Burma are becoming more and more important. Further to this it appears he is trying to move on Asansol - probably just to cut me off - I move a unit south on the rail so he is disallowed from continuing North. My tank unit previously at Asansol starts the long trek North.

In China a probe on Wuchow has started to move, 14 Divisions are attacking a reported 3 holding the place. I don't want him to think he can move all the Chinese based units he has to other locations.

In the South Pacific the units readying themselves for Whiskey are in place (bar the escorts still taking part in Nighthawk).

Down by Noumea the CL Perth is making good speed to the base. She should not die from her wounds. The original TF tasked with shooting down Jap bombers will also make port next turn and will then turn around and take supplies to the now size 4 base at Lunga.

(in reply to asdicus)

Post #: 305

RE: Tarawa smashed - 12/30/2004 12:17:57 AM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

quote:

The Brit Carriers continue to allude the Japs.

I'm sure they hate that you're eluding them, too.......

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 306

RE: Tarawa smashed - 12/30/2004 2:33:36 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

quote:

The Brit Carriers continue to allude the Japs.

I'm sure they hate that you're eluding them, too.......

Depends on what they're alluding to. Maybe what we have here is a failure to elucidate.

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 307

RE: Tarawa smashed - 12/30/2004 7:18:39 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Elucidation smation. It is all just words to me...

No combat report lads adn I have little time, so a few words only.

The Brit Carriers continue to evade the Japs but do manage to redistribute fuel amongst all ships - I can sprint again if necessary. The Jap Carriers move further south down the coast of India.

The Battleships escorting the Carriers move into Karachi harbour and bombard. They also drop off parts of an infantry unit. Is this a recon or an attempt to make me divert units from other locations. He also bombs Columbo from both Trim and Madras. The Kittyhawks and Warhawks loose more of their number than the bombers they were supposed to defend against.

The Oz 22nd Brigade make it out of the forest track from Burma and start on their way to Asansol.

A strange occurance in the nighthawk invasion. The don't unload switch appears to have turned on and no troops disembark. I dod not do this on purpose and I already have some of the troops unloaded so I am unsure what the story is???

Anyway - have to skidaddle.

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 308

Naval battle at karachi - 12/31/2004 5:01:55 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Well a mixed day. My incendary RN ships are at it again - exploding at teh mearest hint of Jap artillery - his BBs pull into Karachi again. My Beauforts in Diamond harbour find some sneaky minelayers. His Naval bombers at Kwajalein find teh San Francisco at Tarawa - but meet my LRCAP fighters in the process.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/24/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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TF 1028 encounters mine field at Tarawa (85,91)

TF 1028 troops unloading over beach at Tarawa, 85,91

Allied Ships
DMS Zane
DMS Hopkins
PG Niagara
DD Hatfield
DD Chew
DD Morris
AK John C. Fremont, Mine hits 1
DD Benham
AK Harry Luckenbach, Mine hits 1

Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported

Coastal Guns at Tarawa, 85,91, firing at TF 1028
28 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
AK John C. Fremont
AK Laida, Shell hits 1
DD Hughes

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
384 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

After swithcing off the 'don't unload swtich' the landings on tarawa begin again in earnest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna, Shell hits 10
BB Kirishima, Shell hits 4
BB Nagato, Shell hits 6
CA Kumano, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Kitakami, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Shirakumo, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Isonami

Allied Ships
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 2
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 3
CA Cornwall, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA Exeter, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Danae
CL Dauntless
CL Birmingham
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Bulmer, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Whipple, Shell hits 2
DD Stewart
DD Isis
DD Paladin
DD Panther, Shell hits 1

His BBs revisit karachi - probably in the name of the destruction of my bombers located here. I worried about his heavies hitting again. For the price of a few hits on his heavies I loose the Cornwall - which once again has a magazine explosion - bugger!
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso, Shell hits 4
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Hyuga
CA Mikuma
DD Yukikaze
DD Kasumi, Shell hits 46, and is sunk
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1
DD Ayanami, Shell hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 3
CA Exeter, on fire
CL Danae, Shell hits 36, on fire, heavy damage
CL Dauntless, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
CL Birmingham, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Bulmer, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Whipple, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Stewart
DD Isis
DD Paladin
DD Panther

To add to the pain another large BB TF pulls into harbour and meets the damaged surface Tf again. This time I do not get surprise and some of the heavy shells of the BBs take toll of my much lighter ships. All ships listed ass sunk obviously are, but all others are for the moment alive and put into port.
As I stated I played the numbers and hoped he would not return. If he did return the navy was to repel invaders to save the airfields - in this they were successful.
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Day Air attack on Calcutta , at 29,23

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 94
Ki-48 Lily x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
79 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 23
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 126

With my airforce elsewhere PzB is hammering the airfields at Calcutta. There are no longer ACs here and the forts are at 34% completion to level 8. More on this later.
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Day Air attack on Lae , at 54,87

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 11 destroyed, 1 damaged

What a truly pathetic effort by the kittyhawks. 5 are lost to the zeros for 1 in return. I have to have no more than 4 to 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 200th Chinese Division, at 30,33

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
Ki-27 Nate x 6
Ki-51 Sonia x 18
Ki-21 Sally x 21

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Well despite the lysanders being set to LRCAP these guys they never appear. They have the range (well I don't get a 'disallowed' note) but they are never on station - curious.
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Day Air attack on TF, near Diamond Harbor at 28,23

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
ML Katoku, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
ML Kurokami, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

The beauforts at Diamond Hrabour which I left on naval attack find 3 sneaky MLs in the harbour (the other in another attack) they all sink.
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Day Air attack on Colombo , at 14,24

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 8

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 4

The warhawks by themselves are doing OK.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Colombo , at 14,24

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
G3M Nell x 6
G4M1 Betty x 10
Ki-21 Sally x 10

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 13 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 9

They really get amongst the ioncoming bombers this time. I am trying to keep the firls open in readiness for the incoming Hermes carried fighters and to get the bombers there off.
------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85,91

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 11
G4M1 Betty x 22

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 22 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 23 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AP Chaumont
CA Salt Lake City, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
PG Niagara

In come the Betties and Nells from Kwajalein. They manage to put a torp into Salt Lake City and it compounds the flooding problem she already had from the mine she hit. She is level 66 flooding and has to make it to Pearl with that - slim chance at this range. If she sinks then the bombers have done their job. If not then this was a very expensive raid for a singel torp strike.
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Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85,91

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 17

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 37 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Vireo

More of the same targeting an MSW that they don't hit. In all the Japs lost 50 ACs today to the allies 7. So multiplying this by 4 and even with the loss of about 100 points worth of Rn shipping we are still up on the ledger.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tarawa

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7659 troops, 83 guns, 29 vehicles

Defending force 4824 troops, 14 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
163 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
124 casualties reported
Guns lost 11
Vehicles lost 1

With more men on the ground the compulsory shock attack at tarawa is far more effective getting 3-1 odds and removing all levels of fortification. More troops and another shock attack should get me the airfield this turn. As with Lunga though I doubt it will net me many Japs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PzB is moving very quickly now in India. He is racing up the coast road toward Panaji and this scares me as the almighty Bbs will have far shorter distances to travel in order to get replenishment on thier runs to Bombay or Karachi. I land a small unit of Dutch refugies there this turn but the single unit he has sent there should be nothing in the way of whatever he has sent there. It has 30K supplies - there is just no way of stopping this build up. There was only ever a base unit there so not as if an HQ was gathering guns and butter to itself.

My Beauforts have moved to Bombay to have a crack at the BBs as they cruise down the coast. I imagine PzB has thought of this and the KB will move up the coast to cover the BBs. If I had done this last turn, as I almost did, I may have had undefended BBs to get amongst.

Te Aussies are rushing towards Karachi at greatest possible speed. With guns low on ammo I imagine the Bbs will retire back to Trim to reload. As added cover I am going to create about 10 singleton AK TFs for naval bombers to get interested in.

A question to my esteemed colleagues: Do you think I should try and run the huge fleet of ships I have at Karachi out to the Indian Ocean? If he takes Karachi there will be alot of points (there are currently over 200 ships in port!) Once the bases closer to home get taken the long range bombes will be able to joining the sport of hitting my ships.

In Diamond Harbour the Warspite - the least of my damaged BBs - is making a run for it. The way I am going I will have to scuttle anyway and if the ship actually makes it that will be 170 less points to the enemy - very slim chance though.

PzB has moved 10 units OUT of Calcutta. thats right he is repositioning. I think he is a little worried that my units from Burma can sneak past and defend the rest of India. Fair enough that is what I am trying. If he goes after Asansol and then up the road Calcutta is lost. With 5 Divisions advancing on Hyderabad my defenders at Caclcutta may also get cut off. I start to retire a number of them. I still have alot of forts with which to make him bleed but for the moment it loks like the big retreat has started.

The Hermes continues to close. The ships are starting to show the wear of continued fast running.

With the first part of Nighthawk nearly complete the carriers start to move away and the rear echelon move in to fix the airfields and such. I still need to cover their unloading but Tarawa shouldn't be far from covering a closer run to Australia for my resupply convoys.

Preparations for Whiskey are now going ahead.

Also a contingent of 3 CAs a CL and 8 DDs is on it's way to Indian waters.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 309

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 12/31/2004 8:32:22 AM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Yes..............surge your ships and do it in single ship TFs.......it will send him crazy trying to hit over two hundred targets........I always use the same tactic when fleeing from the PI. Make sure that you set them to all different paths/hexes. Yes it will take you a while to do it, and yes you might well loose 25 to 50% but it is better than rolling over.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 310

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/1/2005 1:25:43 AM

IKerensky

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/7/2001
Status: offline

Well I have another suggestion , even if tricky, not sure it is doable:

Send as many as possible to conversion, withdrawn... this way they will come back one day or another :p

Could save some AK..... I am not sure where is the conversion port for CW...

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 311

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/1/2005 2:46:03 AM

madflava13

Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

Won't work at Karachi - SF only...

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(in reply to IKerensky)

Post #: 312

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/2/2005 4:29:45 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

quote:

Day Air attack on TF, near Tarawa at 85,91

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 11
G4M1 Betty x 22

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 22 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 23 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AP Chaumont
CA Salt Lake City, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
PG Niagara

In come the Betties and Nells from Kwajalein. They manage to put a torp into Salt Lake City and it compounds the flooding problem she already had from the mine she hit. She is level 66 flooding and has to make it to Pearl with that - slim chance at this range. If she sinks then the bombers have done their job. If not then this was a very expensive raid for a singel torp strike.

I'll never understand why players insist on making these long range unescorted strikes with G3/G4s. Just because they can do it does not make it a good idea.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 1/2/2005 9:30:15 AM >

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(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 313

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/2/2005 10:58:16 PM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Irrelevant

I think it is just a case of leaving yout planes on naval missions and they CAN reach, they have high enough morale to take on the CAP without escorts themselves and so they fly. YOu have to actually turn off your naval bombers to preserve them in a these cases. The amazing range of the Betties and Nells can actually work against you in these cases.

I am currently out of town at a wedding so PzB and I are not able to continue turns.

WE've had one turn, which I wanted to write up, but the area I live suffered a pwoer outage and I was unable to write it up before leaving.

The highlights are that PzB is now running at haste around me rather than through me. The point being that he wants to get to Karachi as fast as possible I would think. He is also advancing on Asansol to cut off reinforcements from Burma. There is little I can do to stop the second strategy as he can move on the rail while my units are still struggling with the jungle.

ON the trail to Bombay I have the 5th Indian Division against 2 units of his - I don't know what they are. He is also advancing on Panaji, which will mean he has a much shorter length to run to get supplies for the BBs - sigh. I think I will try and hold him at Ahlama -something or other. It is inland and on the road to Karachi. Holding Karachi itself willbe very difficult with these heavy hitters on their way. He'll know this and try an amphibious invasion - it remains to be sen how well I hold out against this.

I think the Ozzies will make it ashore - that is all good. Now I am only 3 or so divisions shy of being able to hold Indias - heh heh.

Raver. I think I will sortie the ships for the top left corner and then run them down at the best speed I can and in ones and twos like you recommend. You have to be carefull of surface raiders rather than carriers as the surface units will attack every unit in a hex where the carriers wont. Therefore I have to try and get as far down teh WEst caost as I can before he clicks as to teh endevour I am trying. ONce I am in teh Indian proper he will have to split his surface fleet from RShole to elbow and that opens it to counter attack from the Brit carriers.

Nex turn the Hermes will be able to unload her Wildcats and P-40s - they will help no end. THis will mean I have about 80 better fighters for defense.

Amazingly the Warspite has manage to get through the first part of the cordon. I hold very little hope for her making it all the way but each day is a blessing.

Back in the South Pacific Tarawa has stalled. I got a 0-1 and lost a number of troops. I set the lot to rest and will try again in a day or two. I really don't want to as the carriers are required elsewhere.

OK gents, I want to run this one by you. I have 4 Divisions on the water, plus an HQ, 2 airbase units, 3 engineers, 2 tanks units, 2 RCTs plus the marine raiders and paras. THat is the force aimed at Rabaul - pretty impressive really. HOwever, I am leaning in the direction that others also have that even Rabaul wont be enough to cause PzB to take a breath.

How does an attack on Java sound? I think he has stripped the place of all but guards units and maybe a mixed brigade. Taking Java puts my carriers in position to threaten India, Java itself means heavy bombers in range of his oilfields and his major naval base - Singapore. It should be far far more worrying for him. I really need some thoughts and don't mind those playing devils advocate. This is still very early in the game and the fact I could contemplate Rabaul was the KB in teh Indian. Hmm - I would probably need an island base on the wya as well - maybe the Western Timor one. Things would change very quickly, but if he had to start stripping the units from India to do it I may yet stay under the 4-1 autovictory. The point is I have the units able to do it and they are only a couple of weeks away from being able to attempt the attack???

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 314

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/2/2005 11:13:30 PM

Alikchi2

Posts: 1785
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

How does an attack on Java sound? I think he has stripped the place of all but guards units and maybe a mixed brigade. Taking Java puts my carriers in position to threaten India, Java itself means heavy bombers in range of his oilfields and his major naval base - Singapore. It should be far far more worrying for him. I really need some thoughts and don't mind those playing devils advocate. This is still very early in the game and the fact I could contemplate Rabaul was the KB in teh Indian. Hmm - I would probably need an island base on the wya as well - maybe the Western Timor one. Things would change very quickly, but if he had to start stripping the units from India to do it I may yet stay under the 4-1 autovictory. The point is I have the units able to do it and they are only a couple of weeks away from being able to attempt the attack???

That sounds like a really excellent idea! I have no doubt that he's prepared for an attack at Rabaul or anywhere in SOPAC, really. He's had plenty of time. Java, now that would be unexpected, and probably has a good chance of success.

You do need a port on the way - Timor or Bali sounds good. Have you also considered taking back Amboina? It's not too far from Darwin, and once you have it, heavy bombers can hurt his oil badly. An invasion of Kendari could work too.

This could work, I think.

_____________________________

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 315

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 12:03:04 AM

Strv103C

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Java seems risky as it is so close to KB and it is big so he can probably land a lot of troops before you can take it all. It will surely take a while to organize this and then he might have a lot of freed up troops from India.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 316

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 1:03:15 AM

sveint

Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

If you can take - and hold - Java, you could win the game even after losing India. Heavy bombers based on Java can quickly ruin the entire Japanese economy.

Taking Rabaul or any Pacific Island does absolutely nothing in the short to medium term.

< Message edited by sveint -- 1/2/2005 1:04:22 PM >

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Post #: 317

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 1:20:50 AM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline

Java seems a nice option indeed. No doubt he has stripped the place of any real combat units for his indian venture. Now the forces slated for rabaul will take some time to reach java, so you might be able to pick up an australian division or two on the way?

I hope some you also have an aviation unit in your TF so you can quickly put land based aircover in place.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 318

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 4:28:37 AM

Tom Hunter

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline

I bought the game 2 or 3 weeks ago played the AS* (Artificial Stupidity, I refuse to credit it with Intellegence) until I understood most of the game and then got into 2 PBEM and I am at the end of December 41 in both. So I have little real experience which entitles me to be a critic right?

Java has always struck me as a weakness in most Japanese planning. Mogami's posts in Summer of 04 about how he would force a battle in the Central Pacific ingnore Java and a number of the other strategy tips and AARs I have read tend to do that as well.

The Americans ignored Java because they could get decisive victory faster by going straight at Japan. There are a lot of reasons for this including the fact that US subs effectively cut Java off from Japan in the later part of the war but the two most important reasons for you Wobbly are Midway and the successful defense of India at the Burma border. Nimitz had both, you don't have either.

So Java makes sense. You can even use LBA out of North Australia to support the effort. You can go for the main island direct or you can grab stepping stones on the way. You may even be able to do both. You know the risks lets look at the rewards of Java Vs Rabaul

Java has enogh VP to stop the auto victory, it contains resources the Japanese must have and it can be supported from OZ. Rabaul can be supported from OZ but otherwise doesn't do much. If Karachi is going to fall you must go somewhere he HAS to reinforce.

< Message edited by Tom Hunter -- 1/3/2005 2:30:50 AM >

(in reply to String)

Post #: 319

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 6:00:55 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Java is good if you have the strength to pull it off.

If you had been prepping for it for a few weeks I would say go for it.

As it is you have stripped northern oz for your last stand in northern India so I think it is to hard at this stage.

I would probably say at this stage if you have committed to Rabaul finish the job at hand.

Nothing you do quickly is going to take pressure off of India.

You just need to dig in and hold at the Karachi - Ahmabad - Delhi triangle with high forts and undisrupted troops.

Force him to bypass you by sea hold Delhi and Ahmabad if you can is my advice and take Rabaul

Andy

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 320

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 8:03:55 PM

roberto5352

Posts: 94
Joined: 10/24/2004
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Trying to take Java at this stage sounds like a huge boondoggle. First of all, you'll have to take Timor and everything else along the way, or he'll just park a bunch of Kates and Vals there and cut off supply. Even if you do hold these islands, once the KB returns from India, he's going to make your life an absolute hell. Trying to operate heavy bombers from Java will only exacerbate supply problems.

Rabaul, it's true, has fewer immediate benefits, but capturing it now removes an entire layer from his defense in 1943. In VP terms, it's less valuable, but you're likely to lose less shipping and sink more of his if he tries to mount a serious defense against all of your CVs. You might also overpower a significant number of LCUs.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 321

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 8:18:16 PM

tsimmonds

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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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If you think you can hold Karachi/Bombay I'd say go after Rabaul. If he doesn't come out and put up a fight for it, what's to stop you from using it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in the central pacific?

If you feel your Indian position is in danger, you may need to go after Java if nothing else as a diversion. From what he has thrown at you in India, I'd be surprised if he could mount much in the way of immediate resistance; however, in the mid-term (6 months) I think you would be unable to hold onto Java and exploit it. I'd say it's a question of weighing what you might lose if Karachi/Bombay falls vs what you might lose if you throw all that into Java and can't support it or get it back out again.

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Post #: 322

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/3/2005 8:20:09 PM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: roberto5352

Trying to take Java at this stage sounds like a huge boondoggle. First of all, you'll have to take Timor and everything else along the way, or he'll just park a bunch of Kates and Vals there and cut off supply. Even if you do hold these islands, once the KB returns from India, he's going to make your life an absolute hell. Trying to operate heavy bombers from Java will only exacerbate supply problems.

Rabaul, it's true, has fewer immediate benefits, but capturing it now removes an entire layer from his defense in 1943. In VP terms, it's less valuable, but you're likely to lose less shipping and sink more of his if he tries to mount a serious defense against all of your CVs. You might also overpower a significant number of LCUs.

First, he doesn't have to resupply them from the east, he can easily do it from the south, and only KB can intercept from there.

Second, Rabaul is by now a huge fortress i'm sure. The first turn he detects your huge fleet advancing he is going to transfer hundreds of planes to rabaul itself and the airfields around it (Kavieng, Adm. Islands, Shortlands etc.) which is going to make your life difficult and he may even sink a carrier or two.

Third, he doesn't expect an invasion of Java and even if he does he doesn't have any real land forces there. In almost all of the japanese AAR's ive read the player doesn't concern himself much with the defence of western SRA. Timor and Philippines maybe, but not Java or Sumatra.

Fourth, if you take rabaul you are bound to suffer some loss in shipping (maybe even a carrier or two) and that means points to him. You won't get a lot for Rabaul and if he takes India then the game is lost. Hitting Java will catch him out of position (hopefully) and force him to commit forces from India or suffer consequences.

Fifth, transferring land based aircraft to Java is quite easy. Most bombers can make it from northwestern australia and iirc even some fighters like P40B. By now you should also have quite a large number of marine squadrons which can be transferred by ease with only one carrier sitting halfway between java and australia. Planes that have been transferred on ships can be transferred off to bases on the same turn.

There is one danger in this plan. How to get your forces from rabaul to java undetected?

If he sees you coming long before you land then its useless.

(in reply to roberto5352)

Post #: 323

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 2:04:10 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Gentlemen of the Admiralty. As expected some excellent thoughts for and against. Thank you

My reason for attacking Rabaul was because I thought I could pull it off since the KB is supporting India. Well as in all real wars that plan is no longer a viable option as it will cost me heavily for little real gain. He CAN afford to let me take it and start to reinforce bases further north. What changed this is his continued exceptional progress in India. An attack in Java might just carry enough weight to make him start to require some of the units there back in Java. I truly believe it will be short of defensive units.

I am short of time so I wont respond to each writer individually but touch upon some of the points bought up.

Yes aviation units are in the invasion force previously aimed at Rabaul. I also have Dutch units in Darwin that can be used for the invasion of Timor (I think). Heavy ACs in Northern Oz can't reach much other than Kendari, Amboina and Sorong. There will be a period where the only aircraft able to help in Java will be Naval aircraft. However the same can be said of the invasion of Tarawa - the difference of course is the number of airfields he can use while I disembark.

Andy - as always the voice of reason. The truth is mate I don't have the time to plan this to perfection. Far more planning went into hitting Rabaul but he can take the loss of Rabaul without worrying about it too much - I needed another target - one that really does threaten, and I need to attack it very soon. Without such an attack he may get the 4-1 he needs for auto-victory. He can also reinforce the attacks on India with abandon, I have to curb that, even if it is only to reduce the amount of time it takes for him to attack. Truthfully I am very worried about the BBs and their bombardments of Karachi - they will be devastating. If he draws them off to repel invaders in Java then I have succeeded to an extent.

At present the likely locations of landing will be the 1,1 base in the North (by Batavia) and straight into Tilitjap - for its port. The other option is the little base down by Soerbaja. Either way I have to land in more than one location to look to secure most of the counterattack locations before he can really muster his response.

Getting the invasion forces there? Well there is only one way, through the straits by New Guinea and Australia. Up past Timor and into Java. Any recon he gets may be misconstrued as reinforcement for India - although he is very good at ascertaining my intentions. The likely locations for him scouting me are Lae and the Timor base. I will hammer both of them. Hitting Lae will actually reinforce his thought of attacks on Rabaul or Shortlands. I have already hit the base in Timor and he will have realised this is to try and stop reconning of shiping heading to India - who am I to stop these thoughts?

As I see it gentlemen, the crux of this attack will be speed and then the counter attack from the KB. If he hits me with his land based planes I will have many injured ships trying to get back to ports in Oz. They will all be very vulnerable to the KB in doing so. If he hits my carriers and wins a decisive victory then I can probably kiss goodbye to many of the ships in the invasion force as well. If I do manage to suppress many of the locations on Java quickly - and get a large enough airfield to take the heavy bombers, then I can quickly deny him close range retaliation. At present I have chiefly the 4 Divisions, 2 RCTs and 2 Tank Brigades to assault with. I can see him having the same problem I had with defense: getting units in large enough numbers to the front - without opening the rear to para invasion (the marine Paras are in the invasion forces). I also believe he has used many of the engineering units he has, which are quite inferior to mine, to continue his attacks. They therefore have not been building forts in Java - the only things that has remotely allowed me to restrict his juggernaut in India. I think 4 Divisions (+ not inconsiderable sundries) will create a juggernaut of their own against the numbers I expect him to have with little to no fortifications. Included in this is the possibility of 2 North Australian Divisions to bolster my hold (they will have to be loaded in a much later reinforcement on ships surviving the initial invasion). There are a few issues with lack of fighter planes again. Many are in or on their way to India. I will have to strip Oz further and at present this will only be P-40s, P-39s and Wildcats; hardly awe inspiring.

4 Divisions, safely in Java will take some removing though, and he may have to abandon India to do it, and that, in the end my learned friends, is the whole point!

(in reply to String)

Post #: 324

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 2:30:38 AM

String

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Iirc there is one base on Java that is not a coastal hex, now if you could get that operational then your airforces would be safe from his battleships atleast. This way you might actually be able to keep air superiority over Java for some time

edit: Oh and by making to java i meant transferring the bombers. I know none of the current ones have range to hit it from australia.

It is my opinion that he has very little garrison at java, maybe only a brigade, maybe a regiment.. and base forces.. I'd be surprised if you found a whole division there. And even if you did they could be routed easily

< Message edited by String -- 1/3/2005 7:32:54 PM >

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 325

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 2:54:02 AM

Strv103C

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Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Sweden
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Interesting thoughts about Java, indeed. If I got this right PzB has offered you to continue the game even if he gets autovictory? Problem is that even if you pound the evil empire to the stoneage he will still have won a moral victory like" yeah, you beat me up bu I actually had an autovictory". My question is if it will be enough to avoud autovictory if you had a major naval battle where the Jap loses more than you? If so you could wait until late 42 when the odds are more favorable for a carrier battle. If he avoids battle just to get autovictory he loses the moral victory argument, as I see it.

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 326

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 6:49:51 AM

wobbly

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String - yeah I think it is Badeoing (or something - man memory is a fleeting thing) - just below Batavia. I would want to take out Batavia anyway as it would be a nasty location right on the dorstep, but for continued control of Java that location is imperitive. I agree about the level of defense he will have there. That is why I am thinking of two landings. However, I will only have my carriers initially to cover the two landing locations with. I am thinking of utilising the extra sqd location (that any carrier can use : up to 5) on each of the fleet carriers, then fighters can be based straight on Java in fighting order!

Yes PzB has offered to continue the fight from then on but as you say it will be a bit of a hollow fight, more an experimentation than anything else. In truth, If I loose India - including all bases - I wont be over the 4-1 level. It will be the loss of the units and the men surrendering that will do that. HOwever, if he does disregard Java an continue with attacks at full speed against India, then I will also now have Java as a base to start attacking the interests in India. I might look to counter attack in the South of India for instance. Truthfully I can't see him completely brushing it aside. In India proper it is about to turn into June, which means I start to get spitfires. With the inclusion of the wildcats and another 12 size P-40 sqd, and as long as I try to hold inland (away from the BBs), then his ability to supress my ground units with bombers will start to get very costly. At present I have earmarked an inland base, just south of Karachi, as the last stand for my ground units rather than Karachi itself. If I can time it such that the Java invasion occurs before he lands then he will be tempted to forego that part of it... or maybe I am in dreamland.

Bottom line though STRV103C, if I could have any surety that I could loose India and still be below the 3-1 autovictory, then I would not be invading Java!

Another question, does anyone know whether the game is over if he gets 4-1 after 1/1/43?

(in reply to Strv103C)

Post #: 327

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 8:36:02 AM

Strv103C

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Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Sweden
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Well, i might have been unclear in my question. If you lose India and he gets well over 4-1 I'm wondering how much Jap fleet you must sink to avoid autovictory? (Don't know if it is all possible to calculate this though) Anyway, if you lose India it is probably too much points lost to avoid autovictory even if you sink the whole KB.

So Java invasion might be worth the risk. I just can't see it go unnoticed when you pass Timor which means that there probably will be Netties and Zeroes waiting. They can take a good toll of your Wildcat airgroups and if KB shows up before they are replenished you could be in big trouble. Now, the distance between Karachi and Tjilitap is about 60 hexes so if he commits the KB against your invasion you will have about 10 turns before it shows up (if KB is around Karachi). If he detects your force when they are around Darwin and commits the KB direct, it may well be in place when you invade. This is the biggest risk as I see it but the alternative is going round Oz which will take too long.

How do you supply that inland base once Karachi is occupied?

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 328

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 9:19:28 AM

sveint

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Can we have a screenshot of China? Are the Chinese in a postion for a limited offensive?

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(in reply to Strv103C)

Post #: 329

RE: Naval battle at karachi - 1/4/2005 12:27:22 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
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Java ! Brilliant Idea, tell me do you have enough time to steam under Oz and then pop up on the west coast via Perth? This would keep your TF well hidden.
How are your PPs? Do you have enough to start stripping NZ and Oz to support your Java thrust?

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 330

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