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RE: Best way to play each power

 
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RE: Best way to play each power - 9/25/2004 6:42:16 PM   
Telsor1

 

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Joined: 9/24/2004
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I still remember my first game...first turn.

I was the brits and the french/spanish decided to work the newbie..

they set up the bulk of their fleets in the london blockade box...the rest in ports under corp.

Being new, I moved first, and, witha little luck, managed to do some major damage to the bad guys fleets...Of course, after winning that fight my battle fleets were stuck in the blockade box, from which you can't intercept, and the UK was rapidly overrun by more troops than I could dream of dealing with. In the surrender, they destroyed my fleets, and left me a relatively minor power. I learned from that however :devil:

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 91
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2004 3:38:37 PM   
hlj

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com

GB has one major weakness that if left open should be immediately exploited. It will require the French to leave two fleets and a 20 factor corp sitting in a port waiting for the right moment. If the GB player leaves a single port ungarrisoned, the Fr player needs to rush his navies into that port. Even if the GB player attacks in the same naval phase, and the Fr lose the naval battle, as long as the Fr have 2 ships remaining (to keep both fleet markers on the board) after the battle, then they will be able to land the corp because losers of port battles do not leave the port! Rather, the attacker returns to the blockade box and prepares for another attack agaonst the port, which will be too late. Far worse for GB is if the Fr make the move AFTER GB has made its naval move, thus allowing capture of the port without loss of a ship and gaining control of the port guns if GB decides to attack next naval phase. Talk about pie in the GB players face...not that this has EVER, err, happened to ME...no, no, no...this is all HYPOTHETICAL, of course.

Ok, it DID happen to me. Needing troops for a new corp, I took the entire garrison from one city without realizing what I had done, thus allowing Fr to get froggy. This of course disrupted my invasion in Italy as I disbanded corps and ploped them down home to fight nappy. While the Au was left hanging with only two british corps for support, I did pull nappy out of the battle. BTW, we had six battles, three to Nappy and three to Wellington before casualties caused Nappy to flee Britain and surrender his last four factors.

yamma


quote:

EIA RULES:
6.2.5.1 TRANSPORTATION MOVEMENT PROCEDURE: The corps and the fleet must both begin in the same port land area. They move together until in the sea area or blockade box adjacent to the land area in which the corps is to land or until reaching a port. Fleets and the corps they transport may enter other ports only if controlled or with access.


quote:

EIA Glossary:
CONTROLLED (FRIENDLY) CITY/PORT--A controlled city/port is any vacant city/port in that major power's territory, or any city/port in which that major power has factors, whether besieged or not


That strategy seems to be against the rules...
You can only enter a british port if you control it, or if you have access from GB.
HLJ

< Message edited by hlj -- 9/26/2004 2:40:02 PM >

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 92
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2004 4:19:41 PM   
hlj

 

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Joined: 3/19/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telsor1

I still remember my first game...first turn.

I was the brits and the french/spanish decided to work the newbie..

they set up the bulk of their fleets in the london blockade box...the rest in ports under corp.

Being new, I moved first, and, witha little luck, managed to do some major damage to the bad guys fleets...Of course, after winning that fight my battle fleets were stuck in the blockade box, from which you can't intercept, and the UK was rapidly overrun by more troops than I could dream of dealing with. In the surrender, they destroyed my fleets, and left me a relatively minor power. I learned from that however :devil:


Next time: Set up all of your fleet in the channel (be sure to place all 7 counters on the map, and have roughly the same amount of ships in all of them) , sue everybody for peace... France has to say unconditional, so theres no problem there, if spain says conditional, then give it to him and continue your war against France. If spain says unconditional, then accept peace with him or france depending on who you think will take the mildest peace conditions Then continue the war with the person who got left out of the peace, and choose to move last in the naval phase ^_^

If you continue your war with france, then you hopefully have all of your ships. perhaps spain removed some of them, but you will be left with about 70 and that is more than enough to keep the french player at bay. Your fleet is in the channel, ready to intercept any french fleet carrying troops to england, and if you dont intercept them all, you stil have your naval move to finish the job.

If you continue your war with Spain, then it is the same strategy, exept you dont mind a single spanish corps in England, he have poor morale, and his leaders arent great, so with your morale you should be able to earn some pp against him there ^_^

If someone have a better strategy, then please share it with me

HLJ

(in reply to Telsor1)
Post #: 93
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2004 4:27:12 PM   
hlj

 

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sorry the content of this post was no longer relevant, so I deleted it.

HLJ

< Message edited by hlj -- 9/26/2004 2:41:28 PM >

(in reply to hlj)
Post #: 94
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2004 4:42:44 PM   
yammahoper

 

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Doggone it, I just typed a long entry and it was wiped out! Sigh, I aint going through that all again.

hlj is right about the rule as posted, but the port battle rules show that a nation can enter a pert without permission. As such, after a long arguement/discussion and vote, we decided that if a port could be entered without permission in one circumstance, it could be entered under any. Alos, ports had to be garrisoned. Also, a nation could land a corp without permission in a port, or fleets in an eco phase, but this was grounds for an immediate declaration of war.

Then I apologized for misinforming anyone.

Much less eloquent, but geesh, gimme a break.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to hlj)
Post #: 95
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2004 4:55:42 PM   
hlj

 

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quote:

EIA RULES:
6.3.5.2 PORT RETREATS: If the naval combat takes place in a port, the attacking fleets (win or lose) must always retreat to the port's blockade box, and the defending fleets remain in the port (no pursuit).


You are right, you may enter a port, but only to fight enemy ships located in that port, and you are forced to leave the port, wether you win or loose.

A house rule that states otherwise is fine, just as long as that is what it is refered to. ^_^


HLJ

< Message edited by hlj -- 9/26/2004 3:13:49 PM >

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 96
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/27/2004 5:23:16 PM   
Telsor1

 

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Erm...That was a recolection of my first game...long, long ago :)

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Post #: 97
RE: Best way to play each power - 11/12/2004 4:00:16 PM   
Barbu

 

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Most of the following is assuming option 11.9.2 (mandatory war and peace conditions between FR and GB) is used.

Russia: At the beginning of the game, Russia is the only country that doesn't need to fear anything from anyone. As such, Russian strategy should work on maintaining this status and it's freedom.

There is one threat that can be developped faster than Russia can react and realistically force peace talks: a landing at St-Petersburg, probably from the British - landed by british ships anyway. As such this should be one critical aspect of Russian grand strategy that the russian player should never lose sight of.

The first thing to do is to form a lasting alliance with the spaniards. They are russia's best natural ally, sharing 2 potential enemies (GB and Turkey), and having virtually no potential disagreement.

Second would be to take a decision regarding the Fr-GB war. This would be strongly influenced by the personality of the players and your relationship with them. Preferrably I'd try to keep the war between Fr and GB going forever. If you really have to choose, it's better in the long term to pick France since an anti-french coalition can perfectly succeed without the british should it be necessary to bring France down to size, while it would be much harder to beat GB if the french fleet is at the bottom of the sea/scuttled/unable or unwilling to join due to peace conditions. But like I said, the statu quo existing at the beginning of the game is much more preferrable compared to an hostile GB that isn't trading with you, taking victory points away from you and plotting their revenge.

Regarding Pr and As: These 2 exist mainly to do the job of keeping France to a reasonable size without forcing you to take actions. If it looks like they are on the verge of being crushed by France (unconditional surrender for one or both), it is better to intervene right away before it gets to that point. The reverse is also true. France must stay reasonably strong to ensure that Pr/As efforts during the mandatory peace are turned toward the next round with France. Basically it's in Russia's interest to ignore them as much as possible. If you do have to intervene to save either side from unconditional surrender, then you should request Poland as a prize for your "help". Beyond these circumstances, I wouldn't look at poland unless it's acquisition means dominance for Russia - Protecting Poland will mean tying down large numbers of troops, losing a lot of the freedom of action that is Russia's strength.

Regarding Tu: Russia's best source of political points. It's even possible to beat the Turks upside down and rack up the PPs without having to crush them economically or militarily! Just pound their feudal and then make peace or relatively lenient terms. Nothing the Turkish player can do about it either as long as the Russian made clear of it's benevolent neutrality toward the As/pr/GB alliance.

In general the main focus for the Russian player should be to build up it's core corps (3 or 4 cavalry corps, 5-6 infantry corps, guard, artillery) and then the fleet. Most of the time You will be fighting pretty far from your homeland, and using the bulk of the last 10 infantry corps will be hard and usually somewhat ineffective, especially considering their relative weakness (only 10I). Better to build the denser infantry corps and a few others, the specialists, and then the fleet. A strong Russian fleet will go a long way in protecting Russia's freedom of action. Should Russia be invaded the "standard" way (from the polish or turkish frontier, headed for Moscow or St-Petersburgh), having a large amount of militia won't matter too much in the kind of war you should fight if you are to successfully repulse the invasion.


Spain: First off, always remember that Spain's power is essentially about her fleet. If the british are not distracted by the french or another opponent, the Spanish fleet should remain in Cadiz and not move until such a distraction exists. If you lose your fleet, you are out of the game, simple as that.

Spain has 2 neighbors: France and Great Britain. Both can completely crush you in a fair fight. The good thing is that with option 11.9.2 they start at war. It is in Spain's interest to keep the rivalry going. As long as they are busy with each other, Spain can enjoy freedom of action. Should you need to take side, it's better to side with France. France can protect you from the british while the reverse is not as true, and you have more to fear from Great Britain than from France. The only thing France can gain by attacking Spain is PPs, at the cost of an hostile neighbor. Great Britain stands to remove a very substantial naval threat, gain a substantial amount of north african minors and maybe even Portugal, and PPs.

As long as Spain stays neutral GB cannot realistically be defeated. That's not as true regarding France, so Spain should try to do everything possible to make sure France never has to surrender unconditionally (unless GB has been defeated already in which case you don't care as much - you might even want in the coalition for the mandatory peace and avoid being leeched for free PPs).

Spain's best ally is Russia. They can protect each other from GB to a large extent, and they need not fear much from France - or anyone else for that matter. And can work in synergic fashion to help each other achieve their objectives.

At the beginning of the game, Spain's approach should be one of slow but steady growth. Portugal is surely yours, as is a substantial part of north africa, and if you are assertive enough without overly antagonizing Austria and especially France, Naples as well.

Like Russia, most of the fighting done by Spain will be done oversea and/or far from home. There is no need to build a large regular army beyond what can actually be deployed (and what is necessary to hold Cadiz). Spain's priority beyond the first few corps should be to build up the navy as much as possible.

Spain's best source of political points is Turkey (poor Turks). With absolute naval superiority Spain can strike pretty much anywhere along the Turkish coast and reimbark and land somewhere else when the Turks are on the verge of gathering overwhelming forces. Always keep the strategic initiative i.e. do not let your army fight a large number of feudal corps and you will find you cannot really lose.


Prussia and Austria: I am lumping them together because the germanies have to stick together or at least one or most likely both will be doomed to a long and depressing game. Their fate is so tied to each other that I even think that they could be played by the same player should your game be short one player.

The Pr/AS team occupies an uncomfortable central position. Depending on who is playing France, Russia and Turkey and their actions, there might be not be much you can do at the beginning of the game. This is the major problem to deal with when playing these 2 powers - you may have to constantly react to others actions. It can be stressful, but the action is fun if you don't mind taking a drubbing here and then :)

On the good side, both countries have excellent armies in terms of corps density and cavalry, 2 great leaders, and at the beginning of the game, access to many minors and consequently relatively strong economies.

The most dangerous enemy is France, by far. By virtue of it's strength, and because it will oppose As/Pr in the struggle for control of the many minor countries in Germany and Italy. Pr and As, if well coordinated, are a good match for France at the beginning of the 1805 campaign, and have a slight edge if GB is included in the coalition as well - though victory isn't a sure thing at all. The french have superior mobility, superior morale, superior leaders. The coalition has superior mass, naval superiority, and a lot more infantry corps which can come in handy in the puzzle that is the struggle for minor countries.

Doing a pre-declaration of war has the advantage of saving PPs in case France does the same against either, but Pr and As don't have the cash to fight a winter campain at the game start while France does. It might be wiser to wait until April 1805, though you could declare war right away and only start major operations in April, but a smart french player could take advantage of it. In many ways, starting the war earlier is better, while you have cavalry superiority and the french guard hasn't been built up yet. With only 5 guard factors he can only commit at +2 once, while the Austro-Prussian alliance can field 3 guard corps. The benefits from having Wellington and Blucher in 1806 might not make up for losing these temporary advantages.

Defeating France should be As and Pr's first priority. As long as France is dominant, you will have the french army hovering over everything you do. Even if you do defeat France, if it's army hasn't been virtually destroyed you should dedicate all of your peacetime efforts in preparing for the next round with the french.

About Great Britain: A natural ally. GB can provide much needed money, quality troops if given time to build their army, operational flexibility through fleets, and they can draw substantial French troops away from Germany by just exisiting and forcing the french to prevent a unopposed crossing of the channel - and marching to Paris - or the seizure of ports protecting the French navy. If Great Britain doesn't want to finance you and provide military support against France, it can mean they came to a form of agreement with France and that can mean big trouble. Spain and Russia, at least, might be interested in hearing of this - or at least let the british player know that before he makes a final decision.

About Russia: If Russia stabs you in the back while you are fighting France, won't accept a conditional, and no help is forthcoming from another major power, then you may have to throw the towel for the time being and surrender as early as possible and start rebuilding hoping the circumstances will favor you better the next round. Russia can really mess you up. If giving up the whole of Poland can mean Russia will be off your back, then don't hesitate to do it. These 4 provinces mean pretty much nothing compared to what is at stake if at war with the french.

Turkey: Not as big as a threat as Russia, but one nonetheless. The austrian insurrection corps backed by small regular force can seriously slow down the turks but will be eventually overwhelmed. Russia's or Spain's attitude can influence Turkey's choice in invading or not and you should work on that. I'd resist the temptation of using Turkey as a punching bag for PPs, unless France has been utterly crushed - in which case Austrian dominance becomes a real possibility. As I mentioned above, as long as France is dominant and has a substantial army, you can never have too many resources to face them.

Spain: There should be little interaction between you and spanish at first but that may change as the situation evolves.

Poland: Don't create Poland unless you somehow managed to beat Russia, or unless you are creating Poland with the intent of ceding it to the Russian player. As long as the polish provinces aren't part of Poland they can't be conquered by Russia without formal peace terms. If the russians can be bribed to help you fight the french through ceding Poland, then don't hesitate to do it.



More to come later (maybe!)

< Message edited by Barbu -- 11/12/2004 2:07:02 PM >

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 98
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/22/2005 12:00:05 AM   
Murat


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A lot of people have asked about strategies and this seems to be buried so I am trying to move it forward.

(in reply to Barbu)
Post #: 99
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/22/2005 11:09:01 AM   
Pippin


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When playing spain, I like to think of her protected by a giant wall. Anywhere the ocean boarders her, I consider there to be an invisible wall which many other nations don't have the advantage of. I also will stare a lot at the British transport ships and think of them as little tiny ladders what will be used to help get factors to climb over my walls with. If I can do anything to stop those ladders in their tracks, then I wont have to worry about the brits climbing over my walls and landing inside my territory.




_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 100
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2005 6:41:26 PM   
julia1003

 

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has anyone tried this one ?
you form an alliance with Sp, Fr, and Rs, you have a pre existing DoW with GB.
During set up you place you're 3 fleets combined in the londen blo-box.
On turn 1 you sail into the channel and blast the English out of the water, after that you march a few Frenchies to the other side.
In our face to face games this was the British nightmare, some tried fighting but had to give in after a few battles, even if the GB player won most of them he still lost the war.
Any thoughts on this strategy ?

(in reply to 9thlegere)
Post #: 101
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/26/2005 9:00:07 PM   
AdmiralN


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And this helps?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

When playing spain, I like to think of her protected by a giant wall. Anywhere the ocean boarders her, I consider there to be an invisible wall which many other nations don't have the advantage of. I also will stare a lot at the British transport ships and think of them as little tiny ladders what will be used to help get factors to climb over my walls with. If I can do anything to stop those ladders in their tracks, then I wont have to worry about the brits climbing over my walls and landing inside my territory.






_____________________________

I have only one eye, I have a right to be blind sometimes... I really did not see the signal!

Admiral Horatio Nelson

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 102
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/27/2005 1:10:16 AM   
Pippin


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quote:

Any thoughts on this strategy ?


I've done this quite a few times, and it works great.

Best time to use it is when you have some hot-head who overly bids for Britain and claims that their nation can never lose. There seems to never be a lack of these individuals, so I imagine this strategy will be used for still years to come, even if just to make a point.



_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to AdmiralN)
Post #: 103
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/29/2005 9:36:56 PM   
Hoplosternum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

quote:

Any thoughts on this strategy ?


I've done this quite a few times, and it works great.

Best time to use it is when you have some hot-head who overly bids for Britain and claims that their nation can never lose. There seems to never be a lack of these individuals, so I imagine this strategy will be used for still years to come, even if just to make a point.




Yes I've seen it done too. It was one of the big reasons our group stopped playing EiA. In our case it was not that some obnoxious individual had got England and was boasting It seemed to be a good way to cut England down to size 'before the game began'. It makes sense for all 3 powers and usually for England to Unconditional immeadiately (and make it known). Negociate what will be lost (how many ships etc.), just about anything to stop one of the three getting Wales or Scotland - this ends Englands game rather than giving them a bad start.

Such strategies of negociating your defeat rather than fighting became rife. Each one was individually rational and made sense but the outcome on the game was very bad when they added up.

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 104
RE: Best way to play each power - 10/11/2005 3:01:51 PM   
Gazr

 

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A clever GB and a sensible spain will make sure that spain is at least neutral early on. In fact, Spain's best starting move is to convince GB and France to let Spain take over Portugal rather than let the other have it.

As France you need to come to a deal with either Austria or Prussia before the game starts; doesn't really matter which. Then just declare war on the other power, impose can't declare war for 18/24 months depending on the peace condition and once rebuilt backstab the other power and repeat. It is worthwhile buying off Spain and Turkey, Spain being the preferred ally because of the fleet. Russia isn't a major concern for France early on except as part of a grand coallition as its forces are too far away to be committed anything other than piecemeal.

The other somewhat risky tactic for france is to have two fleets with one ship in each somewhere on the cosat of the Channel (with two army corps with one infantry factor each) on the same land space, one fleet with more than 20 ships with the I Army corps at full strength next to it and one fleet with the remaining ships in the Med. GB has to split its fleets to blockade all the French and Dutch fleets so in the first turn attempt to cross the channel with (hopefully) a big enough superiority in numbers in your main fleet to make up for losing the wind-gage

(in reply to julia1003)
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RE: Best way to play each power - 10/13/2005 7:06:59 PM   
Tisirin

 

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I saw this mentioned earlier in the thread. What is the Colonial Fleet Optional Rule?


(in reply to Telsor1)
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RE: Best way to play each power - 11/22/2005 4:11:41 AM   
ktotwf

 

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So, what are the best terms that you can apply if you are a France who has won unconditional surrender from Britain after an invasion of England?

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Post #: 107
RE: Best way to play each power - 11/22/2005 9:39:02 AM   
Pippin


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quote:

impose can't declare war for 18/24 months depending on the peace condition and once rebuilt backstab the other power and repeat.


I like that one...


_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to ktotwf)
Post #: 108
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/6/2006 6:56:27 AM   
Murat


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Even more philosophy on how to play your nations.

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 109
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/8/2006 1:56:48 AM   
Joisey

 

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In my prior games Britain routinely came to control Sweden, Denmark, Portugal, as free states, and Morrocco, as conquered, while losing Hanover and Hesse to France.

The rationale given to Spain, Prussia and Russia was always that "you're just going to lose them to France, anyway, so let me control them so they stay in the fight."

Sometimes, Russia would get pretty balky about Sweden, but a threatened British DoW and naval interdiction of their sea supply, coupled with some carrots ($$$, support in taking Polish provinces, and "I'll be there when Nappy invades you") ussually mollified Russian objections.

While some have knocked the dimunitive size of the British army, I have found that when reinforced by 3 Swedish corps, a Danish Corps, and a Portuguese Corp (that even gets a morale boost) that it is a respectable army on the Continent.

Although I always thought Spain should combine with France to take on Britain's navy at the start of the game, I only ever saw this done once. Unfortunately, the French player controlling the combined fleet had no feel for naval combat and went down to defeat. While the British fleet was reduced by half, France and Spain were wiped out and Russia and Turkey could never afford a naval arms race with Britain.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 110
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/9/2006 3:15:59 PM   
McGuire

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazr

As France you need to come to a deal with either Austria or Prussia before the game starts; doesn't really matter which.



Actually, I've never seen this done once. And as a matter of fact a PR or AU player should get the crap beaten out of his head for pulling a stunt like this!
The only chance PR and AU have against the FR is the other!

The only reason why I'd make up a deal like this with FR is this:
I'll do the backstab myself!

FR thinks he's got nothing to fear from me. Concentrates on the other. Then I try to rush past him an me and my "ally" crush the FR by destroying supply-lines and fighting them on two fronts.

In a case like this it's likely that GB will enter the fight too! Much to gain - little to lose!
And this is the point when you'll offer FR a conditional peace with both (PR&AU). Choose: take some minors, he may not declare war 24 months and remove corps.

It will wound him - not cripple him! He can deal with GB! You decide when to fight again - and he will be short of some men!
And maybe he'll even be grateful for not going on him the whole way!

My two cents....


< Message edited by McGuire -- 8/9/2006 3:19:09 PM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 111
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/9/2006 3:22:51 PM   
McGuire

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joisey

Sometimes, Russia would get pretty balky about Sweden, but a threatened British DoW and naval interdiction of their sea supply, coupled with some carrots ($$$, support in taking Polish provinces, and "I'll be there when Nappy invades you") ussually mollified Russian objections.



If a GB player would try that on me - well - I don't like to be threatened.
I'd tell him I'd ally with FR & SP combining the fleets to crush the GB's and fighting PR&AU on the land. This will leave the FR enough corps to deal with GB. Or maybe after the war against AU/PR.
As RU I want Norway, Finland and Sweden. Even Denmark if I can manage...

You know, in this game threads can work in two ways!!


< Message edited by McGuire -- 8/9/2006 3:24:08 PM >


_____________________________

There are only 10 types of people in the world!
Those who can read binary - and those who don't!

(in reply to Joisey)
Post #: 112
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/9/2006 8:17:06 PM   
Murat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: McGuire

In a case like this it's likely that GB will enter the fight too! Much to gain - little to lose!
And this is the point when you'll offer FR a conditional peace with both (PR&AU). Choose: take some minors, he may not declare war 24 months and remove corps.

It will wound him - not cripple him! He can deal with GB! You decide when to fight again - and he will be short of some men!
And maybe he'll even be grateful for not going on him the whole way!

My two cents....



I would let Prussia get the extended peace, Austria can hold out the 6 months while Prussia rebuilds easier than vice versa. Also EACH country gets to pick 2 and France can block 1 condition (there is a list) for each country so you would actually get to do 4 things to him, providing you have actually damaged him enough for him to want to sue for peace.

(in reply to McGuire)
Post #: 113
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/9/2006 8:21:32 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McGuire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joisey

Sometimes, Russia would get pretty balky about Sweden, but a threatened British DoW and naval interdiction of their sea supply, coupled with some carrots ($$$, support in taking Polish provinces, and "I'll be there when Nappy invades you") ussually mollified Russian objections.



If a GB player would try that on me - well - I don't like to be threatened.
I'd tell him I'd ally with FR & SP combining the fleets to crush the GB's and fighting PR&AU on the land. This will leave the FR enough corps to deal with GB. Or maybe after the war against AU/PR.
As RU I want Norway, Finland and Sweden. Even Denmark if I can manage...

You know, in this game threads can work in two ways!!



I try to resolve this at the start of the game as Russia. Usually you can get a DoW on Britain WITHOUT having to fight Au/Pr so you just combine move navally and take the minors in the Spring without having to fight the Allies on land (well except for ransacking Britain).

(in reply to McGuire)
Post #: 114
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 1:44:56 AM   
Joisey

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: Montgomery, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat


quote:

ORIGINAL: McGuire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joisey

Sometimes, Russia would get pretty balky about Sweden, but a threatened British DoW and naval interdiction of their sea supply, coupled with some carrots ($$$, support in taking Polish provinces, and "I'll be there when Nappy invades you") ussually mollified Russian objections.



If a GB player would try that on me - well - I don't like to be threatened.
I'd tell him I'd ally with FR & SP combining the fleets to crush the GB's and fighting PR&AU on the land. This will leave the FR enough corps to deal with GB. Or maybe after the war against AU/PR.
As RU I want Norway, Finland and Sweden. Even Denmark if I can manage...

You know, in this game threads can work in two ways!!



I try to resolve this at the start of the game as Russia. Usually you can get a DoW on Britain WITHOUT having to fight Au/Pr so you just combine move navally and take the minors in the Spring without having to fight the Allies on land (well except for ransacking Britain).



I agree with the sentiments here, but wanted to share my experience with agressive British players. I also have the following comments:

As an Austrian/Prussian player, I would never allow myself to get sucked into a dispute between GB and Russia. I don't think its in the Germanic interest to do so. The A/P player(s) need to keep focused on France. They can't afford to turn their back on France to help GB bully Russia over Sweden. Instead, they should take Russia's side and even let Russia take the free Polish provinces if it means they can get some Russian corps (and a leader) to face the French at the beginning of the game. That first clash will dictate how the rest of the game goes: Lose, and be pummelled by the French for the rest of the game every 18 months. Win (or at least draw), and you still have the chance to be the master of your own fate.

And really, in the long run, staying concentrated on France is in GB's and Russia's interest too. GB should be trying to grind down the French, and Russia cannot truly aspire to Dominance until and if the French are knocked back on their heels.

As a Russian Player, would try to avoid a rash confrontation with GB. GB has to be mindful of driving you into the arms of France, but you have to reach a modus vivendi with the Brits over Sweden: You can't take Sweden if GB is ready to swoop in and cut off your sea supply.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 115
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 3:37:58 AM   
Sardonic

 

Posts: 215
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Russia needs Sweden. England, does not. If England acts to prevent Russia from gaining Sweden, that is an unfreindly act. There can be no disguising it. NO amount of softselling it will matter.

Russia, CAN ally with France against England. I would suggest that this possibility be foremost in the mind of England.
Better to have a Russia that needs you, than one that is determined to fight you.
Russia will need English cash. Better England than (shudder) French.

In practical terms, you can always decide to take Sweden away later, if Russia becomes obdurate.

(in reply to Joisey)
Post #: 116
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 11:30:52 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

Russia needs Sweden. England, does not. If England acts to prevent Russia from gaining Sweden, that is an unfreindly act. There can be no disguising it. NO amount of softselling it will matter.

Russia, CAN ally with France against England. I would suggest that this possibility be foremost in the mind of England.
Better to have a Russia that needs you, than one that is determined to fight you.
Russia will need English cash. Better England than (shudder) French.


Holy crap for a minute there I thought I was going to agree totally with Sardonic on something. As far as all of this goes, I agree. Luckily Sardonic saved me from total agreement by adding this gem:

quote:



In practical terms, you can always decide to take Sweden away later, if Russia becomes obdurate.



No way in hell. Once Sweden falls to Russia, Russia can trace supply within Sweden and the British army is just not big enough.

(in reply to Sardonic)
Post #: 117
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 12:55:33 PM   
Sardonic

 

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

Russia needs Sweden. England, does not. If England acts to prevent Russia from gaining Sweden, that is an unfreindly act. There can be no disguising it. NO amount of softselling it will matter.

Russia, CAN ally with France against England. I would suggest that this possibility be foremost in the mind of England.
Better to have a Russia that needs you, than one that is determined to fight you.
Russia will need English cash. Better England than (shudder) French.


Holy crap for a minute there I thought I was going to agree totally with Sardonic on something. As far as all of this goes, I agree. Luckily Sardonic saved me from total agreement by adding this gem:

quote:



In practical terms, you can always decide to take Sweden away later, if Russia becomes obdurate.



No way in hell. Once Sweden falls to Russia, Russia can trace supply within Sweden and the British army is just not big enough.


After England grabs most of North Africa, it will have a big enough army

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 118
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 1:53:13 PM   
McGuire

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat

quote:



In practical terms, you can always decide to take Sweden away later, if Russia becomes obdurate.



No way in hell. Once Sweden falls to Russia, Russia can trace supply within Sweden and the British army is just not big enough.


After England grabs most of North Africa, it will have a big enough army



Sorry, but I disagree! GB will never get enough troops out of north africa. GB will need them right where they are to keep the districts. If GB claims minors there he will really piss off SP and TU. And GB cannot afford to have ALL the fleets in the game against himself. Just take the counts in the beginning:
100 ships GB
177 ships FR/RU/SP/TU
Even if only three of them ally it's only luck that lets GB survive. But all 4?? No chance!
He will end up losing Gibraltar, Malta, and north africa! And have the FR knocking on London's door!

My two cents!


_____________________________

There are only 10 types of people in the world!
Those who can read binary - and those who don't!

(in reply to Sardonic)
Post #: 119
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/10/2006 5:53:38 PM   
Joisey

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: Montgomery, New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McGuire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat

quote:



In practical terms, you can always decide to take Sweden away later, if Russia becomes obdurate.



No way in hell. Once Sweden falls to Russia, Russia can trace supply within Sweden and the British army is just not big enough.


After England grabs most of North Africa, it will have a big enough army



Sorry, but I disagree! GB will never get enough troops out of north africa. GB will need them right where they are to keep the districts. If GB claims minors there he will really piss off SP and TU. And GB cannot afford to have ALL the fleets in the game against himself. Just take the counts in the beginning:
100 ships GB
177 ships FR/RU/SP/TU
Even if only three of them ally it's only luck that lets GB survive. But all 4?? No chance!
He will end up losing Gibraltar, Malta, and north africa! And have the FR knocking on London's door!

My two cents!



I agree. A bunch of 5/5 corps with morale of 1.0 aren't going to be worth much to GB. Better to just have the Portuguese Corp and the Danish Corp and "arrange" to have the Turks do some "military exercises" on the Russian border, or even an actual DoW if you can afford the Turk's price. Now Russian can't put it's entire army in to defend Sweden.

As I said earlier, in most of my games, the British player's pitch to Russia was along the lines of: If you are going to be a team player against France, Britain can build out the Swedish corps faster and get them into action to help the coalition faster than Russia can, and GB is less likely to have to do an unconditional surrender to France than Russia where Fr could choose to take over Sweden. The A/P player(s) ussually also chimes in that they'd like to see a reinforced GB army ready to land in Normandy too, and that they aren't complaining about letting GB have Denmark, so why don't you be a team player too, etc. Needless to say, this pitch has alot more appeal in the 1805 scenario than it does in the 1792 scenario.

Now, in the event of an obstinate Russia refusing, the response by GB in my games is not to be so melodramatic as to DoW on Russia, but instead to be "passive aggressive" and be extremely tight fisted when it comes to loans/trade. Another "passive aggressive" GB ploy is to shower money on Turkey, and support it in creating the Ottoman Empire, with the understanding that Turkey will then pick fights with Russia and not Austria. In fact, a clever Turk can get money from both France and GB for the same promise! In any event, with a little creative book keeping, the GB player can maintain "plausible deniability" in having anything to do with the Russian's Turkish problem.

A slightly more confrontational approach is to pay the other players not to bid on Sweden when Russia does it's DoW, take control of Sweden as it's free state, and then use the GB fleet to prevent Russian Sea Supply (this doesn't necessarily require an actual DoW, just the threat of one, and the resulting loss of the Russian fleet and three corps in one fell swoop!). Faced with this, the Russian ends up having to attack Sweden through the Scandanavian wastes, a long and tedious process. Worse, if the Russian player rushes to do his DoW on Sweden right away, he'll be building that supply line in the Winter! Come Springtime, that long exposed supply line through Scandanavia is again subject to an amphibious assault by GB (or the threat of one) due to the imperfection of the map there. Again, the GB player only need make an "implied threat", not an actual DoW. Here's an example I recall: The GB player announced that "Russia ought to give Sweden a 'fair fight', and only attack with 3 corps." If they used more, GB might have to "do something" to even the odds <combined with a "show the flag cruise" by a British Squadron in the Baltic>. Hint Hint, wink wink.

In my experience, Russia CANNOT take Sweden if GB is determined to prevent it.

True, all this might earn GB the undying enmity of the Russian player, but the A/P player will also whine and cajole the Russian not to go down that road. The A/P player will offer all the free Polish provinces rather than be caught between a Franco-Russian Alliance. Sometimes, if the French player is a little too gleeful about the whole ruckus, he can make the Russian back off. Alot of what happens depends on the personalities involved.

(in reply to McGuire)
Post #: 120
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