RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the first six months?

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RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the first six months?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the first six months?

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RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 5:45:38 AM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

If it's happening after combat, I would assume they are pursuing (using the option, not just tagging along behind). Anything else is a bit bizarre, even on railways.

PURSUIT is one of the culprits, which is why I'd like to see it removed from the system.
It was an interesting notion..., but in practice it's a disaster. It would probably be an
acceptable practice with 10 mile hexes, but with 60 mile hexes it produces obscene
results.

(in reply to von Murrin)

Post #: 31

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 7:42:08 AM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

How many girlfriends have you pissed off in your time? "Honey, your coffee tastes like ****! You wear too much make-up, why? Because you're ugly! You drive like a girl! Boring!!! I can do better with my hand and I'm a thalydamide baby!"

I once told a girlfriend that she drove like my grandmother. Guess what, she dumped me within two months...

I also have some problems with the pursuit rules. First of all, I think that with 60 miles hexes, a unit shouldn't be forced to retreat to another hex right away. When combined with the pursuit rules, this is what allows troops to march 420 miles through the jungle in 7 days. Allow the attacker to control the base, but the defender shouldn't be forced into another hex. Were the Japanese sent 60 miles from Henderson field when the 1st Marines captured that base?

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 32

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 1:57:05 PM

Captain Cruft

Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline

OK well it does seem like there are problems here. Thanks to moses for pointing out a possible explanation for my particular one.

Rail lines: I would like these to work differently. For marching purposes they should be no different to a road. There should however be a separate "transfer by rail" function which would whizz units anywhere on the rail grid instantly. Somewhat akin to air group transfer, units which use this would suffer extensive disruption.

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 33

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 2:37:08 PM

LargeSlowTarget

Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

But 257 miles in two days!?

That seems a tad extreme!

Over 5 miles an hour, by foot, with no stops for sleep, eating, or going potty?

Rice-propelled b@st@rds... (appreciatory, not derogatory

)

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to neuromancer)

Post #: 34

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 4:19:15 PM

moses

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline

I really think that instead of pursuit we should have the opposite effect. Units that capture a hex through combat should be immediatly disrupted to a level that prevents significant movement for the next 3 or 4 turns. Why?? Even after a total victory the enemy still has somthing covering its retreat. There's still enemy forces that need to be mopped up, obstacles/minefields to be cleared, prisoners/wounded to evacuate, infrastructure damage to repair, civilians to deal with. A 60 mile hex is a lot of ground to get control of and while we can't simulate the forces that would probably continue fighting for weeks or months in the captured hexes there should be some effect in the game that takes this reality into account.

An additional possibility is to require captured locations to require a garrison for some period of time. Somthing like 1/4 of the assault strength of the defeated force declining by 10 % or so a turn.

Rail movement rates should only be allowed between friendly bases connected by a rail path free of enemy units.

These 3 changes would tend to slow combat to more realistic rates in Malaya, Burma, and China.

Unit movment rates should be the average value of the current and destination hex. This prevent situations where it takes 20 days to march into a hex and 1 day to march back.

All one hex moves should be executed exactly as input by the user. If I plot a unit to move one hex north it should march north and not head off in another direction via the rail/road net.

These changes would pretty much fix the ground movement system and with them the ground combat system in the large land theaters would more realistic.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 35

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 4:24:55 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Eh? 257 miles you say????

Whats your secret? length of malaya in 7 days??????? Again, I need to know this one.

I find rested, supplied and supported units with no knocked out elements move much faster than the units with any of these lacking as it should be. However even all of the above and a railroad the best I've managed is 30 miles a day for 2 days. After that it goes to more like 17 for another few days and if I don't rest etc it ends up being closer to 10.

Even with the roads, it can sometimes take almost 5 full days of marching to get my disrupted, tired units off the beach and inland in the PI. Understandable in the confusion but 257???

I don't think the AI gets movement bonuses . . . Can you make it happen by playing head to head or by playinga s the japs and getting super fast allied units?

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to tabpub)

Post #: 36

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/20/2004 10:57:31 PM

neuromancer

Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Rice-propelled b@st@rds... (appreciatory, not derogatory )

I guess 'Charlie' got that sort of respect in Vietnam as well.

As one TV show put it: 'Charlie was a shrimpy little guy that ran around the jungle in a pair of pajamas. Toughest guy I ever knew.'

Some people never grasp the concept that its probably a better idea to respect your enemy, than simply hate and dismiss them. And years after the war is over, there is no real reason not to respect a past enemy's strengths.

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 37

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/21/2004 6:55:43 PM

BPRE

Posts: 624
Joined: 10/16/2000
From: Stockholm,Sweden
Status: offline

Here's another example of weird marching by Japanese infantry divisions. It's taken from a computer versus computer game started in 1.10 and now running in version 1.21. ALl settings are standard/historical.

18th Div, 33rd Div, 55th Div and 56th Div have been sent from north Burma towards Akyab. The route is from Pagan across the mountain hex 31,30 to Akyab. At start of each day it looked like this:

Date    Div  Distance traveled

3/8/42  18th        14
        The others are not yet there

3/9/42  18th        15
        55th        29
        56th        0

3/10/42 18th        16
        33rd        9
        55th        32
        56th        3

3/11/42 18th        19
        33rd        10
        55th        35
        56th        4

3/12/42 18th        22
        33rd        13
        55th        38
        56th        7

3/13/42 18th        25
        33rd        14
        55th        41
        56th        8

3/14/42 All Div's are in Akyab.

When they arrived in Akyab they all had fatigue between 60 and 65. Before started across the mountain they were pretty tird (don't remember exact figures though).

moses explanation fits in quite well until the 14th. Something happened then. In case somebody is interested I've got saves from each day.

/BPRE

(in reply to Svar)

Post #: 38

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/21/2004 7:43:44 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svar

quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

The simple explanation.

Hex 19,55 is a trail hex-you move at the trail rate. It will take at least 15 days to get from 19,55 to Palemburg.

Palemburg is a road hex-you move at the road rate. It will take one or two days to get from Palemburg to hex 19,55.

I understand the time it was going to take the Dutch unit to get from hex 19,55 to Palembang but 5 Japanese units went from hex 19,55 to Palembang in 1 day. Both the Japanese units and the Dutch unit had about the same amount of fatigue which slows down movement so why when the Dutch unit was going to take 22 days did the Japanese units travel the same distance in 1 day?

Could it be the computer moved the JA units first, all five of them at the same time, and that the DU unit ran against reduced movement due to some stacking limitation that slows movement into the hex?

(in reply to Svar)

Post #: 39

RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the ... - 8/21/2004 11:47:14 PM

Halsey

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline

I have the pursuit problem in my test game. Chased a base force into a mountain hex on one turn then attacked it and followed the unit across a river and into a jungle hex the next turn. 120 miles through the mountains, over a river and into a jungle in two days.

No roads in either of the hexes.

Give me a break! Are they giving Viagra rations to their troops?

I hope this gets fixed soon.

_____________________________

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 40

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: Do the japanese get some superfast Inf Divs in the first six months?

Page: << < prev 1 [2]