Which Ship........(6)

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Which Ship........(6)

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Which Ship........(6)

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:14:11 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

Was laid down before Dreadnought and had the design not been changed mid construction would have beaten the Dreadnought to completion and presumablyits name would have defined the breed??????

One last roll of the dice........

Answers on a postcard.

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

Post #: 1

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:19:01 PM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline

Tough one man...

But it's better than real work, right?

< Message edited by sprior -- 9/1/2004 1:19:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 2

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:20:24 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

The Japanese Aki I believe.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 3

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:22:15 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

The Japanese Aki I believe.

oooh, lets see what the survey said, UH UH - X

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 4

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:26:27 PM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctid98

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

The Japanese Aki I believe.

oooh, lets see what the survey said, UH UH - X

Not the Japanese Satsumas?
Aki wes a member of this class...

Satsuma class semi-dreadnought battleships
Displ: 19,372 tons normal; 19,700 tons full load
(Aki: 20,100 tons normal; 21,800 tons full load)
Dim: 482 x 83.5 x 27.5 feet (Aki: 492 x 83.5 x 27.5 feet)
Prop: VTE engines, 20 boilers, 17,300 hp, 2 shafts, 18.25 knots
(Aki: Steam turbines, 15 boilers, 24,000 hp, 20 knots)
Crew: 887 (Aki: 931)
Arm: 2 dual 12/45, 6 dual 10/45, 12 4.7/20, 4 3.1/40, 4 3.1/28, 5
18 inch TT (sub) (Aki: 2 dual 12/45, 6 dual 10/45,
8 6/45, 12 3.1/40, 4 3.1/28, 5 18 inch TT (sub))
Armor: 4-9 inch belt, 2 inch deck, 7-9 inch barbettes, 7-9 inch turrets,
6 inch CT
Designed as all-big-gun ships (2 dual, 4 single 12/45) but completed
with mixed 10 and 12 inch main battery due to shortages of 12 inch
guns. Ordered as identical sisters, but Aki was delayed by the
unavailability of a building slip. As a result of the delay she was
fitted with numerous improvements in machinery and armament. Each had
2 3.1 inch AA added during WWI; Aki had 4 3.1/40 removed.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 5

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:27:41 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

You are referring to Cuniberti's design principles. Aki was one such, originally designed with an all 12 inch armament but delays caused her to be launched with mixed 12 and 10 inch.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 6

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:35:07 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

The actual ship was the Sutsuma laid down on 15 May 1905 originally with x12 12 inch guns but changed to x8 12 inch guns plus x6 10 inch guns.

The Aki was launched a year later.

Gentlemen, I'll leave you for tonight, thank you for the sport.

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 7

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:37:24 PM

sprior

Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctid98

The actual ship was the Sutsuma laid down on 15 May 1905 originally with x12 12 inch guns but changed to x8 12 inch guns plus x6 10 inch guns.

The Aki was launched a year later.

Gentlemen, I'll leave you for tonight, thank you for the sport.

Good night ctid98. Did I forget I did 16 years in the RN and did a paper on "The Strategy and Develeopment of The German Navy from 1926 - 1945" which kinda gets you involved in the RN's history too... Oh, and I lived in Orkney too for 4 years where you can't get away from history, ever.

< Message edited by sprior -- 9/1/2004 1:38:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 8

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/1/2004 9:56:09 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctid98

The actual ship was the Sutsuma laid down on 15 May 1905 originally with x12 12 inch guns but changed to x8 12 inch guns plus x6 10 inch guns.

The Aki was launched a year later.

Gentlemen, I'll leave you for tonight, thank you for the sport.

Sorry bud. She had 4 Elswick 12"/45 cals and 12 Elswich 10"/45 cals. In japanese service, bopth were known as 41st Year Type guns. Otherwise, righ ton the money.

Oh, and BTW, the USS SOuth Carolina was designed BEFORE dreadnought, but laid down and completed after her.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 9/1/2004 1:57:21 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 9

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 6:03:44 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctid98

The actual ship was the Sutsuma laid down on 15 May 1905 originally with x12 12 inch guns but changed to x8 12 inch guns plus x6 10 inch guns.

The Aki was launched a year later.

Gentlemen, I'll leave you for tonight, thank you for the sport.

Sorry bud. She had 4 Elswick 12"/45 cals and 12 Elswich 10"/45 cals. In japanese service, bopth were known as 41st Year Type guns. Otherwise, righ ton the money.

Oh, and BTW, the USS SOuth Carolina was designed BEFORE dreadnought, but laid down and completed after her.

USS Ain't Scared O' Nothin'!!

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 10

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 6:08:33 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

_____________________________

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 11

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 11:01:17 AM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

Of the top of my head, I don't think the Satsuma counts, the principles of "Dreadnought"s design involved being faster as well as all-big-gun - Max speed 21 knots, due to the steam turbine propulsion she had. IIRC she was the first capital ship to be fitted with them. The old reciprocating engines in the pre-dreadnoughts couldn't sustain their speeds for very long - less than an hour? - and in any case they were 2 or 3 knots slower.

It's amazing what a couple of knots will do for you in a tactical situation, but not olny that, it plays a major part in opeertaional use as well. Jackie is said to have declared that "Speed is armour!" which I think is a little too much, but there's a reason why all the major actions in the North Sea in WW1 featured BC, and none of them had BB on their own.

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 12

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 6:39:34 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

But remember, several US dreadnoughts, the last being the Oklahoma, were still fitted with reciprocating machinery, not turbines. Yet they were still called dreadnoughts.

_____________________________

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)

Post #: 13

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 6:49:16 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

Hey, I'm not to blame if they got it wrong!

The quest for speed is also what 'fuelled' (bad pun) the change from coal to oil, and why the "Queen Elizabeths" were built with oil fired boilers - and were, in 1916, the fastest battleship squadron afloat. Which is why they were able to save Beatty's butt at Jutland - can you imagine what would have happened had the 3rd BCS (Invincible et al) been with the BCF instead of 5th BS (4 out of 5 of the QE's)?

Ain't "What if?" a fun thing?

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 14

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 6:52:14 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

quote:

can you imagine what would have happened had the 3rd BCS (Invincible et al) been with the BCF instead of 5th BS (4 out of 5 of the QE's)?

Three magazine explosions at "Windy Corner."

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)

Post #: 15

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 7:00:32 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

or maybe one less mag explosion. 3rd BCS's shooting was excellent at Jutland though visibibility favored the Germans during the Run to the South.

A better question would be, what if 5BS hadn't suffered it's initial signal failure and fallen behind Beatty before contact with Hipper's 1st Scouting Group?

_____________________________

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 16

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 7:04:05 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

You really need to get hold of "Strategic Naval Gunnery". Paul Schaffer has done an awesome job of re-creating the tactical decisions and limitations of that era.

http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/index.html

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 17

RE: Which Ship........(6) - 9/2/2004 8:20:00 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Just recently secured a 2nd copy of Cambell's "Jutland" the statiscal ad-nausium analysis of the battle. (1st copy stolen along with the bag it was sitting in). Heavy reading to say the least. I had "Rules of the game" next on my reading list but i'll check out your book rec. thx