RAM
Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline
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Hhhhmmm...this is going to be a bit long, so bear with me (or jump directly to the next message if you don't like long posts :D)
I am speaking after going through 3 surface combates, in the Big Campaign (and the first one was a PT attack), so I'm not sure if my experience is enough to make a judgement...however...
To put it briefly; I had intel info on an attack on Jolo, so the Surface TF I had amassed at Soerebaja (Sp?) consisting on the Prince of Wales, Revenge, Houston, 3 Dutch CLs and 6 DDs set sail on surface action orders, full speed and retirement allowed, under a quite capable commander (can't remember now his name, but can check for him). I was hesitant to put Revenge in the pack because her slow speed but I knew some BBs were around the Phillipines so I decided to play it safe.
On the way to Jolo the fleet came under air attack by some Ki21s and Ki30s, and got some 100kg bomb hits on the Revenge (not a problem) and on the CL Tromp (light SYS damage, light enough to not having to make him return). Luck wanted that no Betty gave me a kind visit (they're too busy up north pounding Singapore into rubble), mixed with bad weather that was all the air threat I had to face. After the turn the Fleet had been attacked, the commander had decided to return home, but I pressed him on to get to Jolo and sink the Transport TF that was unloading at just that moment.
So I guess that the "air scare" thought could play a role in the later engagement.
Ok, the TF gets to Jolo and (my air search units will receive a spanking for this) found a nice Japanese surface combat TF in the hex with four CAs, wich attacked by surprise. Showing a brilliant lack of accuracy no heavy impacts were put into any of them during a fierce fight ranging from 7000 to 9000 yards, but the secondary guns of the BBs and the other ship's 4 to 8' guns gave quite a headache to the japanese...Barring one lucky Long Lance hit (lucky because it only made 35 SYS- 31 Flood damage) to the Java, and some light impacts, I got the upper hand of the fight and made the japanese flee.
In this fight I indeed noticed that the AI tends to fire to the burning ships, one of the Japanese DDs was ablaze and took most of the pounding, wile other burning ships were also quite targetted...the damage was more or less widespread, the DD sank and two of the CAs received a good spanking. Nothing serious to put them into the bottom, but they got a good load of medium caliber impacts -they will be sleeping at Japan for quite a while-.
So this combat favours my impression about the surface combat rutine...but there's more.
After putting the japanese CAs on the run, I was amused to see that my TF actually got through the invasion force!!!...it was defended only by a PG and a MSW, so I started rubbing my hands- but there wasn't a reason to.
The MSW got the bulk of the fire in the first round of the engagement, no less than 4 14' hits, and 3 15', plus a lot of 4', 5,25' ,etc fire. The PG was targetted by three of my destroyers and put ablaze.
On the second round the MSW was already going down (heh, not hard to guess after that smashing!), and the PG acted like a fire-attractor. I got 4 hits on the transports (they were seen, their names appeared on hte screen), but no less than 60 rounds, roughly 5 of them of BB caliber, were absorbed by it.
then the combat ended, both sides disengaging.
Ok, I can see the reasoning behind targetting the escort ships first, I don't have anything against my BBs and a couple or three of cruisers targetting them first...but having such amazing load of fire directed at those two ships, the rest of the force should fire to the transports...but its' not to be that way, almost every ship directs their rage towards the puny little ships even after they have been volatilized by 14 and 15 inch fire...
On a lesser degree I saw the same in my first combat, the burning DD took a sack of impacts when it was already clearly going down, and two japanese CAs limped out almost unscathed...
The disengagement rules on both combats seemed quite reasonable for me. First one the Japanese fleed as fast as they could (as they should do against such a superior foe), second one both fleets disengaged after a couple of rounds of fighting (again, japanese fleeing is normal; my own TF had been through a fleet engagement already, and had suffered air attacks previously, so the decision to retire is one I understand because of the air scare and probably because ammo was running low).
The combat rutine itself is what I have some of a problem with. I think what it's lacking in the surface combat routine is a better way of assigning targets. If the MSW and the PGs are already been fired at by a couple of BBs there's no need to target them with the CA, the CLs and almost all the DDs too!!!!...
The superior force should have something of a "pairing up" of targets, such ship targets this, such ship targets the other, etc, from most dangerous to less dangerous. Once the damage is clearly too much for a ship to stand, or the AI thinks so, the ship targetting it shifts fire to the next on the list. Historically many ships were left almost dead on the water to shift fire to more important and evident targets, even while they were not actually sinking at the moment...so this should cover it.
the inferior force should target mostly the most dangerous enemy assets, concentrating fire on them (was quite funny to see to of the japanese CAs firing at my cruisers, and one of them to one of my DDs while there were two full-size Battleships throwing 14 and 15 inch stuff all around the place!) with some random-dice-the-roll throws to see if they happen to fire at anything else instead (should be unlikely but could happen).
If both forces are equal, rules are like that of the superior force.
That way if you have superior ships you cover the whole enemy line with fire (which was the usual thing to do, because I agree that in very confusing combats like Savo Island each ship fired mostly at will, however that was a full feet engagement while in an attack against a convoy there should be no such heavy confusion), and shift targets when the targetted enemy is clearly dying or no longer a threat... which is my tho only major complaints about the surfacte combat routine at this moment, after this couple of combats.
If you are in disadvantage, your ships concentrate on the most dangerous enemy assets...if you have four CAs and you're fighting 2 BBs, all four should be firing at the big ships (unless the random dice says otherwise-but this should be rare)!!
BTW, In the end I found out that the transports were already empty or almost empty (no japanese soldier casualties in the battle report, should be some if they were still loaded).
But it would've been nice to sunk 4 of 5 of those AKs and APs :D :D :D
< Message edited by RAM -- 9/6/2004 7:52:44 PM >
_____________________________
RAM
"Look at me! look at me!!!
Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
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Printable Version
RE: Surface Combat Sux - 
All these 60 mile hex, poor weather, Philedelphia experiment, bangers and mash, and myriad other excuses/explanations anyone gives regarding the arbitrary inclusion/exclusion of ships in a TF is caca. It's like the ships stay together right up to the critical juncture, then suddenly turn into misbehaved little brats in a shopping mall and take off in every direction on the compass. I know why it was included but it fails miserably at immitating confusion and uncertainty.
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