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japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 10:03:05 PM   
admiral56


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If japanese factory has KI-67 Peggy -rd (65)x0 , does it mean that its damaged (or not working yet), since the number is in paranthesis?

Because some factories show D3A Val (0) x 8... which i assumemeans 8 planes being produced per month...

So, if a factory starts scenario 15 producing Ki-36 Ida (0)x29 and i convert it to A2M2 Zero (20)x0,

1) does it mean that its not gonna produce any zeros this month?

2) how long (approx) will it take for production to get to (0) x 20 (which I think means that its producing 20 Zeros every month???

3) dou guys fiddle with production alot? (like less Ki-36's and other less usefull planes)

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Admiral56

"A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten."
Post #: 1
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 10:33:46 PM   
Oznoyng

 

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From: Mars
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quote:

ORIGINAL: admiral56

If japanese factory has KI-67 Peggy -rd (65)x0 , does it mean that its damaged (or not working yet), since the number is in paranthesis?

Because some factories show D3A Val (0) x 8... which i assumemeans 8 planes being produced per month...

So, if a factory starts scenario 15 producing Ki-36 Ida (0)x29 and i convert it to A2M2 Zero (20)x0,

1) does it mean that its not gonna produce any zeros this month?

2) how long (approx) will it take for production to get to (0) x 20 (which I think means that its producing 20 Zeros every month???

3) dou guys fiddle with production alot? (like less Ki-36's and other less usefull planes)


(20) x 0 means you have 20 damaged production units and zero undamaged. Each day, if a minimum amount os supply is present in the base hex, one damaged production unit will be repaired at a cost of 1000 supply. The minimum is 10,000 iirc. Each day, the total number of undamaged production is added to a random number between 1 and 30. That number is divided by 30 and all fractions are dropped.

So on day 1: (20) x 0 - no planes are produced.
day 2: (19) x 1 - you have a 1 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.
day 3: (18) x 2 - you have a 2 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.
...
day 21 (0) x 20 - you have a 20 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.

Any factory with an -rd next to it is researching the plane and will not produce any aircraft.

I fiddle with production a good bit. There are several threads running around about aircraft producition. I started one many moons ago called Zen and the Art of Japanese plane production. Look it up. I've changed my mind on a few things, but some good things to consider there anyway.

(in reply to admiral56)
Post #: 2
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 10:34:19 PM   
doktorblood


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I believe that your conclusions about the Peggy and Vals are correct.

In the case of switching the Ida for Zero production, it's been my experience that the factory will repair by 1 each day until it is producing 20 Zeros per month ...in 20 days.

I haven't messed with aircraft production a whole lot except in some cases, like the Ida and Claude, where it's obvious that you won'nt need many of these types. Boosting Zero production earlier to get enough planes to switch over all of your Claude units over to Zero seems desirable to me. Having super-scarce good pilots flying an obsolete airplane isn't a good idea.

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RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 10:35:53 PM   
Oznoyng

 

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Oh, one other thing. Plane production is very much dependent upon your scenario. Many things written in the above referenced thread are for Scen 15. If you play other scenarios, like Lemurs mod, things will be very different.

(in reply to Oznoyng)
Post #: 4
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 10:36:03 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

I've changed my mind on a few things,


Like what? That really was an excellent thread, maybe you would consider updating it with your new thoughts?

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(in reply to Oznoyng)
Post #: 5
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/23/2004 11:06:32 PM   
pauk


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yep, i would also like to hear your new toughts, especially because there is (somewhere on forum) thread with conclusions that production (RD) is not desirable (saving HI points, engines, supplies!)...

i'm interested in one more thing. I know that if you halted claude and nells production they will make auto-switch on january the first (42). I suppose there is also other auto switch for Oscar I, Zero's.... but i don't know on which date.

Anyone have those informations? It seems pretty important to me. If you stockpile enough zero's in your pool you can halt production and let it auto-upgrade rather then change production to other type and spend lots of supplies.....

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 6
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 9/24/2004 5:45:11 PM   
Oznoyng

 

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The rules on factories switching is in the manual somewhere, but basically it occurs around the first day of the month in which the aircraft becomes available iirc. For aircraft that already have an upgrade available at game start(G3M and A5M4), the upgrade occurs around the first day of the month (Jan 42).

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 7
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/18/2004 3:45:49 AM   
Tanaka


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

quote:

ORIGINAL: admiral56

If japanese factory has KI-67 Peggy -rd (65)x0 , does it mean that its damaged (or not working yet), since the number is in paranthesis?

Because some factories show D3A Val (0) x 8... which i assumemeans 8 planes being produced per month...

So, if a factory starts scenario 15 producing Ki-36 Ida (0)x29 and i convert it to A2M2 Zero (20)x0,

1) does it mean that its not gonna produce any zeros this month?

2) how long (approx) will it take for production to get to (0) x 20 (which I think means that its producing 20 Zeros every month???

3) dou guys fiddle with production alot? (like less Ki-36's and other less usefull planes)


(20) x 0 means you have 20 damaged production units and zero undamaged. Each day, if a minimum amount os supply is present in the base hex, one damaged production unit will be repaired at a cost of 1000 supply. The minimum is 10,000 iirc. Each day, the total number of undamaged production is added to a random number between 1 and 30. That number is divided by 30 and all fractions are dropped.

So on day 1: (20) x 0 - no planes are produced.
day 2: (19) x 1 - you have a 1 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.
day 3: (18) x 2 - you have a 2 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.
...
day 21 (0) x 20 - you have a 20 in 30 chance of producing a plane that day from the factory.

Any factory with an -rd next to it is researching the plane and will not produce any aircraft.

I fiddle with production a good bit. There are several threads running around about aircraft producition. I started one many moons ago called Zen and the Art of Japanese plane production. Look it up. I've changed my mind on a few things, but some good things to consider there anyway.


Oznoyng,

Really liked your ideas in this thread. Any chance of getting an new updated thread???

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Post #: 8
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/18/2004 1:32:05 PM   
Captain Cruft


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
(20) x 0 means you have 20 damaged production units and zero undamaged. Each day, if a minimum amount os supply is present in the base hex, one damaged production unit will be repaired at a cost of 1000 supply.


This is extremely important. Convert too many factories and you will run out of supplies. I know I've done it more than once ...

(in reply to Oznoyng)
Post #: 9
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/18/2004 5:20:48 PM   
esteban


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
(20) x 0 means you have 20 damaged production units and zero undamaged. Each day, if a minimum amount os supply is present in the base hex, one damaged production unit will be repaired at a cost of 1000 supply.


This is extremely important. Convert too many factories and you will run out of supplies. I know I've done it more than once ...


Hey, has anyone done any official testing on this to see if having multiple factories being repaired increases the supply usage? It looks to me like it doesn't, (so you can repair multiple factories in the same hex for the same 1K supplies) turnbut I haven't attempted a true test.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 10
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/19/2004 11:03:00 PM   
DJAndrews

 

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I'd like to bump this to get an answer to Estaban's question and to extend it a little.

Japan starts with five, size-80 mitsubishi engine plants that won't produce engines with the amount of HI present at the site (one has 5 and the the others 10 HI). Since HI must exceed the number of engine factories for any engines to be built at a given location, that's 400 Mitsubishi engines that aren't built in the first month or two (while you expand and repair the HI to at least 80 at each location). It also means that approximately 250K of supplies is needed in the home islands, just to get these Mitsubishi factories up and running.

Was this lack of immediate production taken into account when the suggestions on converting and expanding factories was made, back when the guideline was formulated?

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 11
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/19/2004 11:06:21 PM   
Xargun

 

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Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DJAndrews

I'd like to bump this to get an answer to Estaban's question and to extend it a little.

Japan starts with five, size-80 mitsubishi engine plants that won't produce engines with the amount of HI present at the site (one has 5 and the the others 10 HI). Since HI must exceed the number of engine factories for any engines to be built at a given location, that's 400 Mitsubishi engines that aren't built in the first month or two (while you expand and repair the HI to at least 80 at each location). It also means that approximately 250K of supplies is needed in the home islands, just to get these Mitsubishi factories up and running.

Was this lack of immediate production taken into account when the suggestions on converting and expanding factories was made, back when the guideline was formulated?


ALL HI produced per side is thrown into a pool.. Anytime a factory needs HI it checks the pool - not the individual base - for the needed HI... So if you have all your HI in japan but have a 100 airplance factory in Singapore - it would run fine as long as there was enough HI in the pool...

Xargun

(in reply to DJAndrews)
Post #: 12
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/19/2004 11:59:09 PM   
DJAndrews

 

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From: Toronto, ON, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ALL HI produced per side is thrown into a pool.. Anytime a factory needs HI it checks the pool - not the individual base - for the needed HI... So if you have all your HI in japan but have a 100 airplance factory in Singapore - it would run fine as long as there was enough HI in the pool...

Xargun


Page 180 says:

"Engine Factories – These are specialty industry centers, smaller than their Aircraft Factory cousins but no less important. For engine factories at a location to function each day, the number of heavy industry points at the location must at least equal the number of Engine Factories. If this requirement is met each day, each location will build engines equal to:

(Number Of Engine Factories + a random number between 1 and 30) / 30

Any fractions are rounded down. For each engine built, 18 heavy industry points will be expended."

Was this a misprint in the manual? I read as two conditions. First there must be more HI at a location than engine factories, and second, that the pool have enough heavy industry points that can be expended.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 13
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/20/2004 12:44:37 AM   
Xargun

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DJAndrews

Page 180 says:

"Engine Factories – These are specialty industry centers, smaller than their Aircraft Factory cousins but no less important. For engine factories at a location to function each day, the number of heavy industry points at the location must at least equal the number of Engine Factories. If this requirement is met each day, each location will build engines equal to:

(Number Of Engine Factories + a random number between 1 and 30) / 30

Any fractions are rounded down. For each engine built, 18 heavy industry points will be expended."

Was this a misprint in the manual? I read as two conditions. First there must be more HI at a location than engine factories, and second, that the pool have enough heavy industry points that can be expended.


Misprint or misunderstanding.. Not sure which.. But this is how it works...

Factory size + (random 1-30) / 30 = total engines producable this turn... (round down)

The AI checks to see if there are enough HI points in the pool for ALL of the factories to run... If enough HI is available in the pool the factory runs and engines are produced... If you do not have enough HI to run ALL of the factories then NONE will run.. So if it requires 180 and you have 179, then that factory will produce NO engines that turn.. Its either ALL or NONE...

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/19/2004 10:46:36 PM >

(in reply to DJAndrews)
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RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/20/2004 1:43:36 AM   
DJAndrews

 

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Perhaps I'm not understanding. In my current game against the AI I am about 1 month in. I have about 35K of HI points in the pool, so according to your explanation all of my aircraft engine factories should have been running from day 1.

Now, I have about 750 Mitsubishi factories in total. However, looking at the number of Mitsubishi engines currently in the pool and in planes that have been used (in excess of those that started off in the aircraft pool) I can account for only about 350 Mitsubishi engines for the month. If the 5 bases that have low HI compared to Mitsubishi factories at the location were not producing engines during the month, then everything balances. If not, then the system as misplaced about 400 Mitsubishi engines.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 15
RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/20/2004 2:09:05 AM   
kaiser73


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DJAndrews

Perhaps I'm not understanding. In my current game against the AI I am about 1 month in. I have about 35K of HI points in the pool, so according to your explanation all of my aircraft engine factories should have been running from day 1.

Now, I have about 750 Mitsubishi factories in total. However, looking at the number of Mitsubishi engines currently in the pool and in planes that have been used (in excess of those that started off in the aircraft pool) I can account for only about 350 Mitsubishi engines for the month. If the 5 bases that have low HI compared to Mitsubishi factories at the location were not producing engines during the month, then everything balances. If not, then the system as misplaced about 400 Mitsubishi engines.


did you count the aircrafts built?

the count should be:number of mitsubishi in pool + (number of aircrafts used + difference of aircrafts in pool now and 1 month ago)*2

that gives the number of mitsubishi you produced.

(in reply to DJAndrews)
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RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/20/2004 5:05:49 AM   
Xargun

 

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Currently the pool does not track # of aircraft engines used. This will be fixed in the future, but is not a major problem. So despite the pool saying you have 350 in your pool it does not show the # of engines used.. In the lower right hand corner there is a list of how many engine factories you have and how many you need based on a monthly aircraft production... SO... if you have had 750 factores producing engines the entire month (as in none were expanding during this time) and you have 350 engines in the pool, do not be surprised if your current engine use is roughly 400 engines...

Engine usage is hard to track due to the counter not working in the pool and nothing stating how many aircraft are produced each day... If you really want to know you can add up the total aircraft in the pool and used (get total engine count) and subtract the starting pools of aircraft that use that engine type... Like I said, its not easy especially if you have expanded aircraft factories/engines or don't know what your starting pools were... Not to mention that the # of engines / aircraft produced daily is randomly determined (normal or +1)...

Don't forget some engines use 1 engine... some 2 and others 4...

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 10/20/2004 3:06:18 AM >

(in reply to kaiser73)
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RE: japanese aircraft production changes - 10/22/2004 3:32:15 PM   
kypros

 

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Oznoyng,

Like many, I'd love to hear of any new thoughts you have on the production. Your original thread was excellent.



Cheers,
Kypros

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 18
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