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rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:17:58 PM   
Chaplain

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 8/21/2003
Status: offline
I just have to say this - I can't restrain myself:

1) To all the folks who endlessly pontificate about how Matrix "should have" handled WitP in terms of debugging, betas, release, DD, etc. - have you ever personally tried to do (exactly) what they are doing? No, you haven't. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

2) If you think that WitP is unrealistic because it produces unexpected results, you are simply displaying your ignorance. Have you ever been in combat? DO some reading, for crying out loud! I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

3) I think it's great that we offer constructive input, and it's even more terrific that Matrix responds to it. They don't have to. Perfect customer service (as defined by the consumer) will not measurably increase sales of a niche/grognard product. Arguments based on that assumption are fallacious. Matrix knows that, but they are patient anyway because they share our love for these products. So at the very least, we can be less petulant in your complaints.

To summarize - be less petulant. Speak your mind, but without rancor. We will all be better off for it, and WitP will continue to evolve.

Okay. I'm done.

< Message edited by Chaplain -- 9/29/2004 5:19:08 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:21:02 PM   
MadmanRick


Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

To summarize - be less petulant. Speak your mind, but without rancor. We will all be better off for it, and WitP will continue to evolve.


Ah, dreamers...where would the world be without them

Rick

_____________________________


"Our lives begin to end the moment we become silent about things that matter". Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 2
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:21:20 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

To summarize - be less petulant. Speak your mind, but without rancor. We will all be better off for it, and WitP will continue to evolve.

Okay. I'm done.




_____________________________



Twinkle twinkle PBY
Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 3
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:22:56 PM   
pompack


Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

I just have to say this - I can't restrain myself:

1) To all the folks who endlessly pontificate about how Matrix "should have" handled WitP in terms of debugging, betas, release, DD, etc. - have you ever personally tried to do (exactly) what they are doing? No, you haven't. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

2) If you think that WitP is unrealistic because it produces unexpected results, you are simply displaying your ignorance. Have you ever been in combat? DO some reading, for crying out loud! I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

3) I think it's great that we offer constructive input, and it's even more terrific that Matrix responds to it. They don't have to. Perfect customer service (as defined by the consumer) will not measurably increase sales of a niche/grognard product. Arguments based on that assumption are fallacious. Matrix knows that, but they are patient anyway because they share our love for these products. So at the very least, we can be less petulant in your complaints.

To summarize - be less petulant. Speak your mind, but without rancor. We will all be better off for it, and WitP will continue to evolve.

Okay. I'm done.


Agree completely. The rants really get irritating when the ranters rant about the fact that Matrix made the changes they demanded but they don't like the reason Matreix gave for making the changes they demanded.

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 4
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:24:23 PM   
Chaplain

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 8/21/2003
Status: offline
Hey strawbuk,

Thanks for the support. I definitely fall into the category of "stupid" sometimes. And to quote a certain pointy-headed songwriter from a few years ago: "You may say I'm a dreamer ... but I'm not the only one ... "

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 5
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:24:38 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline
Beautiful dreamer,
Wake unto me
Starlight and dewdrops
Are awaiting thee

Sounds of the rude world
Heard in the day
Led by the moonlight
Have all passed away

Beautiful dreamer,
Queen of my song
List' while I woo thee
With soft melody

Gone are the cares of
Life's busy throng
Beautiful dreamer
Awake unto me
Beautiful dreamer,
Awake unto me



HEE HEE HEE

UB

_____________________________


(in reply to MadmanRick)
Post #: 6
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:33:36 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline
quote:

Beautiful dreamer....


Beautiful gamer,
Wake unto me
Sonias and DDs
Are awaiting thee

Sounds of the ranters
Heard in the day
Led by the Mogami
Have all passed away

Beautiful CV,
Queen of my song
List' while I mend thee
With port remedy

Gone are the cares of
Life's busy throng
Beautiful gamer
Awake unto WITP
Beautiful dreamer,
Awake unto me

_____________________________



Twinkle twinkle PBY
Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

(in reply to UncleBuck)
Post #: 7
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:41:22 PM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline
Good email Chaplain!! I agree with you completely. One other thing you could have said was that if the complainer didn't want to do any testing him/herself, then they shouldn't complain as loud. I REALLY appreciate the testers and other guys (Apollo, etc) who actually conduct tests with the things they think are wrong.

For example, I happen to think that engineers should be allowed to stack (because if the player wants to put all his eggs in one basket, let him), but Apollo did some significant testing with the game and some research on historical actuals. So, I pretty much left my opinion (most of it) out of his discussion. That's because his opinion is now worth more than my (unresearched) opinion.

Anyway, good post Chaplain.

bc

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 8
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:41:37 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

Hey strawbuk,

Thanks for the support. I definitely fall into the category of "stupid" sometimes. And to quote a certain pointy-headed songwriter from a few years ago: "You may say I'm a dreamer ... but I'm not the only one ... "


So all we are saying, is give War (ITP) a chance?

_____________________________



Twinkle twinkle PBY
Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 9
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:54:06 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

So all we are saying, is give War (ITP) a chance?


Oh, that one hurts it's so funny .... can just picture a variation of that "Coke" commercial with a bunch of old grizzled wargamers in a bar singing!

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 10
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 7:58:45 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

Hey strawbuk,

Thanks for the support. I definitely fall into the category of "stupid" sometimes. And to quote a certain pointy-headed songwriter from a few years ago: "You may say I'm a dreamer ... but I'm not the only one ... "


So all we are saying, is give War (ITP) a chance?


Hey, you better not change your sig picture. Its hilarious



_____________________________


(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 11
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:03:10 PM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:


2) If you think that WitP is unrealistic because it produces unexpected results, you are simply displaying your ignorance. Have you ever been in combat? DO some reading, for crying out loud! I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.



My airplanes should damn well fly when my my expereinced commander orders them too. Oh and I have been shot at a time or two...its not fun.

_____________________________


(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 12
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:07:02 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
I just thought of something... the origin of the word "grognard" were the grumblers of Napoleon's Old Guard. They were the best at what they did, and they complained when things were not to their liking...

Then we have the term applied to wargamers and, what a coincidence! Don't we behave exactly the same?

Lighten up! It is a game we are supposed to enjoy...

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 13
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:18:32 PM   
dr. smith

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: lost in space
Status: offline
Chappy,
you're preaching to the choir, my man!

Peace, er, I mean, War On, Bro!

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 14
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:22:10 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

So all we are saying, is give War (ITP) a chance?


LOL! I think you've just come up with the Bush-Chaney last minute campaign slogan par excellence.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to dr. smith)
Post #: 15
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:57:23 PM   
Tophat

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline
just release 1.3 so we all get a break from this font of wisdom. I'm sure 1.3 will give more ammunition for people to blast our way as well! Such is life.........

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 16
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 9:57:54 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

quote:

Beautiful dreamer....


Beautiful gamer,
Wake unto me
Sonias and DDs
Are awaiting thee

Sounds of the ranters
Heard in the day
Led by the Mogami
Have all passed away

Beautiful CV,
Queen of my song
List' while I mend thee
With port remedy

Gone are the cares of
Life's busy throng
Beautiful gamer
Awake unto WITP
Beautiful dreamer,
Awake unto me




Excellent. Reads like something I wrote in the UV forums these several years ago.

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 17
RE: rant about ranters - 9/29/2004 10:33:27 PM   
Caranorn


Posts: 424
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Luxembourg
Status: offline
As a ranter (I expect I fit that term) I had to reply:-).

First, Give War (ITP) a chance sounds scary, really scary;-).

1) I have alpha and beta tested other games, not many but a few cases. All but one of them have been big commercial sucesses. I don't blame beta testers for any bugs or design problems with WitP. I don't blame indivdual programmers or designers either. But I seriously regret that the decision was taken to sell WitP at a time where it apparently wasn't yet thoroughly enough debugged. If necessary, the number of testers (and possibly coders) should have been raised as well as the publication delayed. I probably would have signed up to beta test WitP if I had known of it (I knew it was coming, but wasn't reading the boards at the time beta opened), but now that I've bought the finished product I'm not happy finding it barely playable.

2) I don't think I fall into that category, so I don't have to respond. If anything I'd say we the player should have less control over our forces then we currently have.

3) Yep, this problem does not just occur at Matrix and here at least they try to fix bugs and support the games for a while. Lucky that we have the internet these days, I still recall being sent floppy disks to fix bugs in older games, and those were the good companies actually doing updates (or how I never even sent an email to ADG to get a replacement Pacific map for WiF 4th edition (it was missing 1 color and was therefore barely playable) as I felt Australia was just too far to away to expect any support).

Some players I expect are indeed angry at Matrix or the testers. I personally find that regretable and probably unjust. I on the other hand am pretty sad concerning WitP. If I didn't find Matrix a serious publisher I probably woudln't have had such high expectations for this game. But having had those expectations and being disapointed I will probably think twice before I buy another game here (not a threat or anything of the kind, I hate people who do that, I just have to watch my budget closely (50% of my monthly income goes iinto repaying student loans... you can imagine the rest of my finances)).

Marc aka Caran... wargamer for more then 2/3rds of his life (but that seems small compared to some here I have found out:-)

P.S.: Other the the CWiF open beta all my testing has been of role playing games (so largely looking for ways to break the engine, not design issues).

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 18
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 12:57:14 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:


Some players I expect are indeed angry at Matrix or the testers.



I'm not angry at all...I hope I havent come across that way at least :). I simply disagree with one of the design aspects...I hope my input helps not hinders. That being said, I still am involved in 3 ongoing games (with 1 more waiting the patch) and probably play 3 or 4 turns min a day despite being very busy with the football season. :)

_____________________________


(in reply to Caranorn)
Post #: 19
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 1:59:15 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline
I hope! I am not Petulant-I shower regularly. Just funnin I agree with ya Chaplain. Now let me go Pontificate! I think it was those chili burgers.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to rroberson)
Post #: 20
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 2:39:13 AM   
Cav Trooper


Posts: 237
Joined: 9/7/2004
From: Clinton, South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time.


Amen to that.... I've never spent time in actual hot war combat. But in my 5 our of 8 years in the U.S Cavalry, numerous excercises to Hoenfels, Graf,(<-- with B Troop 3/4 Cav 3rd ID) the Deserts north of El Paso Texas (3rd ACR), and 40 days in the box at NTC (Ft. Irwin, CA with 1st Sqdn 3rd ACR) in "realistic training Excercises" I can remember the screwed up battle plans, OPFOR where they weren't supposed to be contrary to "real time intel", Chow and fuel sent to the wrong grids, Arty pounding our own positions due to communication snafu's, shooting up our own engineers because of a Battle plan changing and not all recieved the changes, and of course battle plans going out the window at first contact. Only way we ever sucessfully survived intial contact was because we were (are) so well trained that we could improvise and win based upon the Commander's intent. Now, to reenforce the above poster's conclusion:

If you can do it better, then just go do it. In the meantime, I personally feel that we've got the best product on the market right now for the type of game we've got. And we all need to just remember, our constructive, non accusatory comments can make a great game even better. So just chill and be thankful for what we've got...

Keep it up Matrix..ya got it going your way, as always

_____________________________

3rd ACR Tanker
3/4 US Cav Trooper
Brave Rifles

"Professional soldiers are predictable; the world is full of dangerous amateurs."

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 21
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 2:43:46 AM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline
Only thing I can say is "movment to contact at night......" with a mechanized TF.

Even in peacetime exersizes, it ain't no lie that "no plan survives contact with the enemy". It functions as a "common basis for change".

FRAGOs are the way commanders operate at tactical level

I have seen some real interesting events play out bin my 17 year army career. Few went "according to plan"

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3rd ACR Tanker

quote:

I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time.


Amen to that.... I've never spent time in actual hot war combat. But in my 5 our of 8 years in the U.S Cavalry, numerous excercises to Hoenfels, Graf,(<-- with B Troop 3/4 Cav 3rd ID) the Deserts north of El Paso Texas (3rd ACR), and 40 days in the box at NTC (Ft. Irwin, CA with 1st Sqdn 3rd ACR) in "realistic training Excercises" I can remember the screwed up battle plans, OPFOR where they weren't supposed to be contrary to "real time intel", Chow and fuel sent to the wrong grids, Arty pounding our own positions due to communication snafu's, shooting up our own engineers because of a Battle plan changing and not all recieved the changes, and of course battle plans going out the window at first contact. Only way we ever sucessfully survived intial contact was because we were (are) so well trained that we could improvise and win based upon the Commander's intent. Now, to reenforce the above poster's conclusion:

If you can do it better, then just go do it. In the meantime, I personally feel that we've got the best product on the market right now for the type of game we've got. And we all need to just remember, our constructive, non accusatory comments can make a great game even better. So just chill and be thankful for what we've got...

Keep it up Matrix..ya got it going your way, as always


_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to Cav Trooper)
Post #: 22
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 3:19:53 AM   
herbieh

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
Gees, someone says the game is almost unplayable!, I must be blind, <im having a ball

How good is this game, how far has it come? Go back to a UV game, Id bet 95% of the guys who played that havent gone back to it once WITP came out (unless they are stickers to a PBEM of course)

Its only a game guys. Matrix has done wonders fullfilling our desires.

Some predictions
In 6 months time as players hit early 43 we will get lots of "the game is brocken" calls as japanese players run out of fuel
Some of these guys will be those saying today how wrong this or that is
But they will still be playing in 6 months time
Prediction 2
Mid 43- the aircombat is brocken!, as the allies blow nippon outof the sky
yet we all seem very happy with it NOW.

Asking for things to be looked at and fixed helps a great game get better.
ranting at Matrix and testers surely must hurt.I don't know how Frag handles it, Id have given up in disgust years ago.
ranters please read the Design page on UV- we thank God for us to be able to follow our dream.
Matrix dreamed of the best war game they wanted to play, ergo, they wanted what we want, we are on the same side.

Mr frag, matrix guys, when the patch comes out, I would recommend you go on
a long holiday, get some pizza and beer in, and enjoy your dream, so that you can recharge, and come back and make ours even better.

My 2 cents
Not flaming anybody

_____________________________

Big seas, Fast ships, life tastes better with salt

(in reply to denisonh)
Post #: 23
I like the ranters - 9/30/2004 6:12:45 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
Hi, I like the ranters. They want the same thing I do. I don't think the testers or the designers or the programmers ever really take anything personal. I know I don't. I also know I am often hard to understand. I don't convey my thoughts clearly all the time and I type poorly and I get letters backwards and repeat myself too often.
My dyslexia often has me reversing ideas or repeating words. I know I'm hard to understand so I often just keep coming back to issues trying to reword them.

All projects will expand or contract to fill the time allotted them. If Matrix/2by3 keeps working on patches they will never stop making patches. There will always be something to adjust, add or fix. The game will get better in that sense that more detail will be added but my honest opinion of WITP was and has been for some time that is was completely playable and the best game on the subject a year before release.
I have 8 PBEM games currently and none of them as far as I can tell have been impacted by bugs or anything that 1.30 or later patches are going to address. I realize this is not true of all PBEM games. I will change how I play to adapt to any changes patches introduce. I know I am not the kind of gamer who could have waited to start a PBEM game. And the ones I have going on currently will upgrade but not restart.

I think we often read a persons post and interpret it personally. Passion does not offend me and I do not require the world to agree with me. I tend to be rather slow on the take when someone is trying to offend me because I do not look for offense. More often I think persons take offense where none is intended. If I post something that anyone takes as opposition to their expressed ideas or opinions please understand that is not my intent. I seek to understand what a poster is saying. I then post how I interpret WITP to reflect that or why WITP acts the way it does. I am not a believer in it's perfection or unchangeability.

I think we all have more in common with one another then we have differences. Our differences are how we interpet past events or how we think they should be implemented in the game. In the end everyones true interest and intent is to make the game more enjoyable and run as error free as possible. The only points we score on each other are in PBEM games. There is no point system on the forum.

There is never anything worth getting excited over. All it takes is one simple clear post to explain a problem or ask a question. All the posts are read. We try to answer every question. It may not always be the answer you want or one you agree with but it will be honest and not personal. I like it here. I'd rather have a beer with this crowd then almost any crowd you could offer me instead.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to herbieh)
Post #: 24
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 6:34:57 AM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline
I just started 2 UV PBEM'S and have 4 WITP PBEM'S going know with one more on the way after the patch, I think both games are fantastic and UV makes for a nice
fallback from inbetween WITP, Ranters are welcome as we are human and opinionated
too a fault, thats what creates WARS and by golly we wouldn't be playing this
fine example of war without opinions.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to herbieh)
Post #: 25
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 7:04:35 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
Bah! The Matrix and 2by3 people have it easy. They can get away with making their clients prove there is a bug instead of being required to fix things that aren't broken. And if there is a bug they can spend more than an hour to fix it. (Programmer/Tech Support for 911 Dispatch systems.)




_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 26
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 9:15:08 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
Well....they'll probably never come up with a patch that will quiet all the critics and in terms of the game development that it spurs perhaps that is for the best.

One can dream tho......



_____________________________


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Post #: 27
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 9:16:35 AM   
matchwood

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
I'm still waiting for War Of The Zombies...

(in reply to Chaplain)
Post #: 28
RE: I like the ranters - 9/30/2004 7:45:44 PM   
dr. smith

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: lost in space
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

I don't convey my thoughts clearly all the time and I type poorly and I get letters backwards and repeat myself too often.



Is that why sometimes you just gotta break out in song???!!!!

Mogami, the Musical!

Its just a little off Broadway.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 29
RE: rant about ranters - 9/30/2004 10:16:59 PM   
Rob322

 

Posts: 578
Joined: 8/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain

I just have to say this - I can't restrain myself:

1) To all the folks who endlessly pontificate about how Matrix "should have" handled WitP in terms of debugging, betas, release, DD, etc. - have you ever personally tried to do (exactly) what they are doing? No, you haven't. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

2) If you think that WitP is unrealistic because it produces unexpected results, you are simply displaying your ignorance. Have you ever been in combat? DO some reading, for crying out loud! I spent an hour in a combat environment once back in 1982 and I can assure you it is chaotic. Outlandish results, actions, intel, and missed opportunities ABOUND - they are the norm, not the exception. Screaming bloody murder because you can't get your forces to do exactly what you want is the most realistic experience a commander could possibly have. It's complete chaos 80% of the time. So at the very least, you can be less petulant in your complaints.

3) I think it's great that we offer constructive input, and it's even more terrific that Matrix responds to it. They don't have to. Perfect customer service (as defined by the consumer) will not measurably increase sales of a niche/grognard product. Arguments based on that assumption are fallacious. Matrix knows that, but they are patient anyway because they share our love for these products. So at the very least, we can be less petulant in your complaints.

To summarize - be less petulant. Speak your mind, but without rancor. We will all be better off for it, and WitP will continue to evolve.

Okay. I'm done.


In general, I agree with the above. Unfortauntely, it's human nature that we're dealing with and some people are not very good at expressing their feelings without a lot of anger (expecially online). I see it here, on other game boards, as well as other aspects of life where one little thing is broken (or at least the person thinks it's broken) and they go "hyper-strident" throwing out their demands, saying the whole thing is a piece of crap, and dishing ultimatums (I demand this be fixed immediately, I refuse to play until my needs are addressed, etc) left and right.

Is this surprising? We're in a culture that cherishes the individual, that tells us we're all equally special and important and deserving. And I'm not making fun of that (far from it) but such sentiments can be taken to extremes by those narcassitic types whose egos need extra stroking.

One thing that maybe we should consider is that one a person goes "hyper-critical" would be to ignore them, or at least respond the way you might to a temper tantrum from a child. Let 'em blow off steam and rant and rave. Engaging them, taking the fight back to them, doesn't let them calm down; it only eggs them on. Further, it starts these furball posts that go on for days and often deteriorate into shouting matches as opposed to intelligent discourse about a game that we all (and I include the ranters here) seem to love. I think some people just enjoy picking a fight but if you give it to them it just makes their voice seem even more important than it really is. We gotta live what we want to see in the world.

Cheers,
Rob

(in reply to Chaplain)
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