RE: Release Date ?

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RE: Release Date ? - 12/31/2004 10:33:00 PM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fahdiz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
1) I believe the younger generation values tactile gaming and face-to-face interaction in gaming far less that you or even I might.

I have children, and disagree heartily. :)

You certainly have the right to your opinion. As I said before, I hope both traditional boardgames and quality computer games continue to be made for a long time.

By boargame I mean NON WARGAMES and NON COMPLEX games. No I dont think people are ever really going to start play charades on the computer (though Im sure someone has tried). But boardgames are now restricted to very very simple games in comparison to what computer games are and will continue to be.

Your telling me if you give a kid some cardboard counters and a mapboard to push them around on with his friends that he is going to prefer that HOWEVER TACTILE and HOWEVER SOCIAL to getting on a computer and playing the same game (note not some shoot 'em up)?

Maybe when they are 4yrs old. But no 8yr old on up has any chance of that (prefering it not doing it).

We did it because it was all we had. Don't read anymore into what I am saying than what I am actually saying. Do you honestly disagree with my above statement?

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Post #: 31

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 12:12:13 AM

geozero

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this thread has mutated to a wholly different discussion.

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JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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Post #: 32

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 1:55:53 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

this thread has mutated to a wholly different discussion.

It's ETF's fault.

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Post #: 33

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 4:12:05 AM

geozero

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I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing the obviously senseless discussion digressing from the original thread and perpetuated by others. It really does not do any good to continue to divert threads into some non-productive discussion about irrelevant subjects that are based solely on opinions.

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JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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Post #: 34

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 6:46:56 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing the obviously senseless discussion digressing from the original thread and perpetuated by others. It really does not do any good to continue to divert threads into some non-productive discussion about irrelevant subjects that are based solely on opinions.

Actually the original subject of this thread is probably, in my opinion, more pointless and senseless than what its digressed into given that there is no way we would get an answer and if we did it would be a meaningless and a totally inaccurate one.

Also the subject is not based soley on opinions. There are facts involved. Many at that.

We may not have gotten anywhere or made much progress but I'd rather discuss stuff like this on the forums then participate in another endless thread of moaning about release dates.

Heck the very first day my own website was up the first email that trickled in..."When will your games be released!?!"

Then there is the person who started 7 threads in just over a week asking the release date for Maximum Football.

No, however unproductive this discussion has been, its much more productive than another release date conversation.

Besides it is on-topic in that I was attempting to state that a computer version of WiF could achieve everything the non-computer version could and more and would easily replace the game entirely not only for those that no longer own or play it but also for some if not many of the ones that do. Obviously not for everyone, but for a certain sizeable percentage it well could.

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Post #: 35

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 6:53:31 AM

pasternakski

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You couldn't even reproduce as simple a game as Up Front on the computer.

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Post #: 36

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 7:39:48 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
You couldn't even reproduce as simple a game as Up Front on the computer.

I'd have to say this is the most uninformed and mean spirited statement I've seen yet in this thread. Clearly you have not read the information available on said topic.

1. I wanted to truly leverage what computers could do and that meant altering aspects of the system. As one example to support modern day combat as well. This does not make sense to do with only electronic rights as then MMP and I are both taking the game in different directions and which one is going to be considered official? Not mine. I couldn't work with MMP because no one at MMP knows what the hell is going on with the title because they are letting someone else do it entirely and are too busy to care at present. I also think they were upset to find out they didn't have the rights they thought they did in the first place.

2. It would have cost me $$,$$$.$$ just to have the e-rights. Something we were funded to do but made no sense unless it were to be exploited (along the lines of what Paradox will do with Squad Leader no offense to them). Our intention from day one was to make a faithful product FOR the fans, not a game for OTHERS. I had most of the graphics redone or in the process of being redone. A few of the earlier style stuff that was completed is posted on my website as an example. It makes no sense to spend that kind of money for what amounts to rights to the trademarked name "Up Front" which is as crappy a name possible from an internet search perspective and many others anyway.

3. Too look at it a different way. I could call it something else, use all the different graphics, and still make it basically UP FRONT. But why? Why not just enhance it then? And then you get to why not just make a completely unique game in the first place that truly leverages the power of computers and doesn't bring undo baggage along (Like the silly way from a computer perspective that combat is resolved in Up Front).

4. No one can love UP FRONT more than I. I've been an official playtester for a game in the system. I even designed my own game based on the system (completed other than graphics work) that verly likely could have seen publication had AH not gone under first. I would never wish the title disservice. My collection has gone from 500+ games down to 1 and back up to various levels at times. That 1 game was always Up Front.

5. Everyone, including DAVID HEATH of Matrix, told me not to do it and to make a game (in the spirit of it) instead and put the licensing money into better graphics, better sound, anything. Which is what we are doing now with SNIPER AMBUSH (TM). Now we can also fund 3 games and not just one.

A win win.

Now I think a friendly apology is due...

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Post #: 37

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 8:01:22 AM

Greyshaft

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Guys, could you move this discussion somewhere else? While it may have an artistic merit of its own, it has nothing to do with WiF and keeps dragging me back into this Forum to see what's getting written about WiF.

There's a General Discussion group elsewhere on this board.

Thanks

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/Greyshaft

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Post #: 38

RE: Release Date ? - 1/1/2005 7:33:19 PM

coregames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
Besides it is on-topic in that I was attempting to state that a computer version of WiF could achieve everything the non-computer version could and more and would easily replace the game entirely not only for those that no longer own or play it but also for some if not many of the ones that do. Obviously not for everyone, but for a certain sizeable percentage it well could.

I'm sure that will comfort ADG. Even if you believe your subject is more relevant than what this thread is about, it's time to move the discussion somewhere else.

< Message edited by coregames -- 1/1/2005 5:35:13 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Release Date ? - 1/7/2005 7:35:32 AM

BumMcFluff

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Meanwhile...we continue to WAIT!

When CWiF was with ADG, at least we got semi-regular updates where we could see (and play) the current version. So far with Matrix, all we have is nothing. Lots and lots of nothing.

Now its 2005.

See you next year.

(in reply to coregames)

Post #: 40

RE: Release Date ? - 1/7/2005 7:50:21 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BumMcFluff

Meanwhile...we continue to WAIT!

When CWiF was with ADG, at least we got semi-regular updates where we could see (and play) the current version. So far with Matrix, all we have is nothing. Lots and lots of nothing.

Now its 2005.

See you next year.

That's only because no one is working on it yet. I imagine much more information will be shared once he/they begin. Allowing just anyone to play a highly unfinished game isn't really sound business logic. At least not for a commercial product. Or to put it nicer I don't think you can blame Matrix for that as just about no one does it.

I'd rather here less, wait a bit longer, and get a better game in the end myself.

Also, from what I've read in other threads, it was pretty well apparant the previous folks were incapable of finishing the game. Which I believe is most of the reason why its here at Matrix in the first place.

The other option was them throwing in the towel.

So I'm just glad its being made at all.

Not every wargamer out there is so lucky with their favorite wargames (witness ASL).

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Post #: 41

RE: Release Date ? - 1/7/2005 7:58:03 AM

coregames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
Allowing just anyone to play a highly unfinished game isn't really sound business logic.

This is true. Even though Marinacci's beta was tested in a very wide-open way, Matrix is doing this right by not rushing it. I would be surprised if we see much movement with anything this year, since they still have to go through the old beta legacy code to learn and to salvage what they can. Matrix beta in 2007?

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Post #: 42

RE: Release Date ? - 1/10/2005 2:07:26 AM

BumMcFluff

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Okay, from a business POV I can understand no updates, but from a consumer/fan POV I still say

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Post #: 43

RE: Release Date ? - 1/10/2005 3:15:16 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BumMcFluff

Okay, from a business POV I can understand no updates, but from a consumer/fan POV I still say

The Official Update Follows:

"There is no update because nothing new has been done yet."

This isn't likely to change until FPG is released.

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Post #: 44

RE: Release Date ? - 1/16/2005 7:59:36 PM

macgregor

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With as little actual information about CWIF that we've recieved I say -digress at will! I believe Matrix bought CWIF because somebody there truly loves the game (perhaps they even think it could be profitable). I can imagine (as I'm not a software engineer) that a 'flop' in this business may result in many hours of wasted effort. However, when I think of all the creative ways one can sell (and protect the copyright of) computer games that the impact of the dreaded 'flop' does not have to be a catastrophe. Except for the time spent on design (and even this not need be called wasted for all programs can be revised and salvaged) there are ways to market and distribute software with previously unimaginable low overhead. As we see now with Matrix selling games by the download -which to me implies that there is virtually no overhead (for distribution). Meanwhile, a 'hit' in this business can make a designer wealthier than a rock star -and he doesn't even have to tour! A song may take as long to write and perhaps cost even more to produce a distributable file than a computer game-Yet you can probably download a song for less than a dollar.(don't know -never tried) Plus before downloading,you already know what the song sounds like. Clueless hopefuls meanwhile are buying computer games for sometimes $100 each for something that costs nothing to distribute! Go figure.( though a good game will undoubtedly provide more hours of enjoyment.) It's a damn good bussiness to be in and I refuse to feel sorry for these guys. So get your asses in gear!

< Message edited by macgregor -- 1/16/2005 7:20:06 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Release Date ? - 1/23/2005 6:44:31 PM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

You couldn't even reproduce as simple a game as Up Front on the computer.

Without people like Veldor having the determination to at least start developing a PC wargame we would have very little to be enthusiastic about.

Veldor has got off his backside to make three games which Im sure many people could only dream about. Now they have the chance to not only get involved in the development but also we have something else to look forward too.

Well done Veldor.

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Post #: 46

RE: Release Date ? - 1/24/2005 8:27:16 PM

macgregor

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quote:

Without people like Veldor having the determination to at least start developing a PC wargame we would have very little to be enthusiastic about.

Veldor has got off his backside to make three games which Im sure many people could only dream about. Now they have the chance to not only get involved in the development but also we have something else to look forward too.

I suppose you're right wodin. My intention is obvious I hope. While I like talking about cwif -what I'd really like to be doing is playing it.

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Post #: 47

RE: Release Date ? - 1/24/2005 9:44:54 PM

Erik Rutins

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Gentlemen,

CWiF is definitely a project that requires a long-term view. You may note that Flashpoint Germany has been released today and once post-release support has started to wind down, Robert Crandall (the developer for that title) will be devoting his full attention to CWiF. We've been in an "evaluation and planning" phase on this project for a while, which should quickly move into adding resources and development in the near future.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 48

RE: Release Date ? - 1/25/2005 2:40:09 AM

IronManBeta

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Erik is quite correct. Work has been done on MWIF but the time requirements are very steep. We really want to make this a game worth having and don't want to wreck what is already there with a half-baked implementation to meet an arbitrary deadline. That is the Matrix way.

I have talked to a number of people face to face or voice about this game over the last while and it is incredible to see the range different views held about what constitutes the core essence of the game. To say that expectations are very high would be a considerable understatement. We just have to work through this process properly.

Cheers, Rob.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Gentlemen,

CWiF is definitely a project that requires a long-term view. You may note that Flashpoint Germany has been released today and once post-release support has started to wind down, Robert Crandall (the developer for that title) will be devoting his full attention to CWiF. We've been in an "evaluation and planning" phase on this project for a while, which should quickly move into adding resources and development in the near future.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 49

RE: Release Date ? - 1/25/2005 7:51:29 PM

wfzimmerman

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Stay the course, Robert. Just keep us posted.

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RE: Release Date ? - 2/6/2005 2:28:56 AM

macgregor

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Thanks for the update gentlemen. Not much to add as most of my ideas are already posted.

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Post #: 51

RE: Release Date ? - 2/6/2005 2:44:50 AM

fahdiz

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Thanks, Erik and Robert. Much appreciated.

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Post #: 52

RE: Release Date ? - 2/6/2005 6:03:06 AM

Grotius

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Appreciate the update, guys. And I am glad to hear Robert say that the focus will be on producing a high-quality game, not on shoveling it out the door fast.

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Post #: 53

RE: Release Date ? - 2/8/2005 7:38:03 PM

Mziln