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Diplomacy AI - 1/26/2005 8:38:47 AM   
Camile Desmoulins


Posts: 115
Joined: 9/15/2003
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I have always thought that EiA is a game in that the diplomacy has a fundamental role. You can find games with an excellent AI, but there are not games that makes the role of Metternich or Talleyrand well, and it´s basic for EiA. Are you developing Diplomatic AI?

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"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

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Post #: 31
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/27/2005 4:29:19 AM   
Hoche


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

I have always thought that EiA is a game in that the diplomacy has a fundamental role. You can find games with an excellent AI, but there are not games that makes the role of Metternich or Talleyrand well, and it´s basic for EiA. Are you developing Diplomatic AI?


Don't expect the AI to even be close to the same as a human opponent. I'm sure if you want a really good game you will have to play-by-email. However the AI will be good for trying out that plan you always wanted to try but were too affraid to try.

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It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
-Edmund Burke

(in reply to Camile Desmoulins)
Post #: 32
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/27/2005 9:14:48 PM   
Camile Desmoulins


Posts: 115
Joined: 9/15/2003
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

Don't expect the AI to even be close to the same as a human opponent. I'm sure if you want a really good game you will have to play-by-email. However the AI will be good for trying out that plan you always wanted to try but were too affraid to try.


I am sure of it. However I think that it would be essential to get a good game a good diplomatic AI in the small countries (Bavaria, Bade, Wurtemberg, etc). It's easy to find players for the Great Powers that will be who develop their own diplomacy, but the diplomacy you the minor ones will always be in hands of the AI game.

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"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

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Post #: 33
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/27/2005 11:48:22 PM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Minor countries in EiA boardgame don't get independant diplomacy. They are neutral until DoW-ed by a Major power. Then the controling Major power for the durration of the war is determined by rolling the dice among the interested and applying the national modifiers.

In EiH Diplomacy on minors was introduced to allow Major powers to invest money and roll the dice with the national modifiers applied while the minors are still neutral. If that diplomacy roll was succesfull a Minor would become your Influenced country, and you would automatically get the defense once they were attacked by another Major power. You could also upgrade them into your Minor Ally by further money investment and another succesfull die roll. Once they were your allies you could call them to your defense once you were attacked by another Major power and then they would automatically become your Free state.

EiH diplomacy on minors is included in MG EiA.

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Post #: 34
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/28/2005 7:30:23 PM   
Madcombinepilot


Posts: 52
Joined: 5/13/2004
From: Saskatoon, Canada
Status: offline 		Well, if you can just throw money at it, I wonder if it would work that England could just buy Sweden instead of fighting Russia for it?

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Post #: 35
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/28/2005 8:31:05 PM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Well, rolling the dice allways has a risk involved (unless you really throw large sums of money) so you could be better off just invading as fast as you can to get all the manpower that GB is lacking to build the best infantry in the world.

Major part off EiA is Diplomacy you conduct with other Major powers, and you can allways persuade the guy playing Russia to invade Sweden and then buy it off from him later on, if that was what you suggested. You are only limited by your imagination in all kinds off deals you can do with other players. But, beware, if you buy Sweden from Russia for big money, that big money can be converted into Ships-of-the-Line that will sail under the Russian flag and help France invade London

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Post #: 36
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/28/2005 9:55:03 PM   
Camile Desmoulins


Posts: 115
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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff
In EiH Diplomacy on minors was introduced to allow Major powers to invest money and roll the dice with the national modifiers applied while the minors are still neutral. If that diplomacy roll was succesfull a Minor would become your Influenced country, and you would automatically get the defense once they were attacked by another Major power. You could also upgrade them into your Minor Ally by further money investment and another succesfull die roll. Once they were your allies you could call them to your defense once you were attacked by another Major power and then they would automatically become your Free state.


It can be dangerous this kind of diplomatic influence. I think that Great Powers can intervene in the diplomacy of the minors, it is more, they should intervene, it happened this way in really, and the charts of the game reflect it. But the AI can improve one of the aspects with more possibilities of improvement: that the minor will always fight for their independence. This doesn't mean that they will commit suicide systematically (that is not to fight, it is a stupidity) , but rather they will develop the diplomacy that allows them to maintain their independence, not the one that allows them to get rich without obtaining anything to change (an abstract idea like freedom?)

By the way how are the counters of the Minor Powers?

_____________________________

"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

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Post #: 37
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/29/2005 12:29:22 AM   
pfnognoff


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From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		EiH had the rules for Minor countries revolt. I only played with that rule one time with my friends, and we decided that it isn't worth the effort. Major powers in EiH are too powerfull to be revolted against. Minors are just there to provide reason for war and compensation when the war ends

Here is a screenshot from one of my games against the AI. You will see Hesse and Wurtenburg Corps counters. I hope this was what you asked about.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Camile Desmoulins)
Post #: 38
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/30/2005 4:17:25 AM   
Camile Desmoulins


Posts: 115
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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff

Here is a screenshot from one of my games against the AI. You will see Hesse and Wurtenburg Corps counters. I hope this was what you asked about.


Good look, ma foi!

Thanks, Pfnognoff

_____________________________

"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 39
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/30/2005 8:23:19 PM   
Wandering Eye

 

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Status: offline 		Seeking clarification on the counters.

- Do the counters that look like towers (first inclination was to say 'rooks', heh) designate something like militia garrisons?

- Do the little red-outline boxes in the upper-left corner of certain counters mean that they're in the city, or is this something else?

- Were any of the towns in this area of the map fortified cities (can't remember off-hand)? If so, I'd be curious to know whether there's a way to check how many troops (measured in army factors? can't recall, it's been a long time) that you need to properly garrison it. IIRC the original board had dark triangular notches set in the wall of the town icon.

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 40
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/30/2005 9:11:00 PM   
pfnognoff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wandering Eye

Seeking clarification on the counters.

- Do the counters that look like towers (first inclination was to say 'rooks', heh) designate something like militia garrisons?

- Do the little red-outline boxes in the upper-left corner of certain counters mean that they're in the city, or is this something else?

- Were any of the towns in this area of the map fortified cities (can't remember off-hand)? If so, I'd be curious to know whether there's a way to check how many troops (measured in army factors? can't recall, it's been a long time) that you need to properly garrison it. IIRC the original board had dark triangular notches set in the wall of the town icon.


- Towers, rooks, castles, which ever way you name them, are city garrison counters. You can put infantry, militia or a mix of both in them up to the city garrison maximum.

- You got it! It is just that, a marker showing a counter is inside the city walls.

- Fort levels are not at the moment clearly shown on the map, but if I'm not mistaken, the map is under constant revision and they should be included in one of the future versions. Never the less, the fortification bonuses are allready in the game engine and they give a die roll modifier making it more difficult to breach a fortified city, just as in the board version. Garrison levels are shown on the garrison counter (the rook, see above), and if you are not within 5 factors away from the max the attacker gets a die roll modifier in his favor, also just like the original.

(in reply to Wandering Eye)
Post #: 41
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/30/2005 11:50:34 PM   
Camile Desmoulins


Posts: 115
Joined: 9/15/2003
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff
- You got it! It is just that, a marker showing a counter is inside the city walls.


In the original boardgame game the corps were in the areasn and when an enemy corps entered he could decide if to face the one in the area (battlefield) or to take refuge in the city, and the enemy body then could decide if it besieged or not (with different supply cost if made it or not). How does it solve this sequence the PC game?

Camile

_____________________________

"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 42
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/31/2005 12:35:53 AM   
pfnognoff


Posts: 631
Joined: 5/6/2003
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Translating this rule from the original to the letter, would create additional e-mail traffic even during a single nation move phase, making PBEM play take long time. It is simplified:
If your corps is outside the city, there is a field battle when the enemy arrive (resolved in the combat phase). If your corps is in the city, enemy can besiege you when they arrive.

(in reply to Camile Desmoulins)
Post #: 43
RE: Diplomacy AI - 1/31/2005 4:08:51 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Seems like a good compromise to me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff

Translating this rule from the original to the letter, would create additional e-mail traffic even during a single nation move phase, making PBEM play take long time. It is simplified:
If your corps is outside the city, there is a field battle when the enemy arrive (resolved in the combat phase). If your corps is in the city, enemy can besiege you when they arrive.

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 44
RE: Leader Arrival dates - 2/1/2005 8:55:17 AM   
Pippin


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Joined: 11/9/2002
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quote:

A becomes more experienced by winning several battles and can now command more troops or his tactical rating increases.


I would think that most games that relied on a feature like this would also be somewhat flawed. For example, should a WW2 Russian leader get experience points for continualy winning the eastern battles because he just sits there and sends numerous conscripts to their death, but enough that the enemey gets wiped out in each case? Even if it results in far more casualties on his own side?

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Post #: 45
RE: Diplomacy AI - 2/1/2005 7:08:46 PM   
Titi

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Montréal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Seems like a good compromise to me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff

Translating this rule from the original to the letter, would create additional e-mail traffic even during a single nation move phase, making PBEM play take long time. It is simplified:
If your corps is outside the city, there is a field battle when the enemy arrive (resolved in the combat phase). If your corps is in the city, enemy can besiege you when they arrive.


Seems not for me, currently :

Will there be no insurrection corps for Austria as it's the same kind of mechanism?

Will an enemy corps moving over a corps in a city be free to continue its move in another area, or will it be forced to stop?

How will forage the corps finishing in an area and choosing to be in the city?

Will the corps in a city modify the forage of an enemy corps moving in the same area?

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 46
RE: Diplomacy AI - 2/1/2005 10:13:10 PM   
pfnognoff


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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Titi
Seems not for me, currently :

Will there be no insurrection corps for Austria as it's the same kind of mechanism?


There are Insurrection corps, the AI handles their placement upon enemy entrance into eligable province.

quote:


Will an enemy corps moving over a corps in a city be free to continue its move in another area, or will it be forced to stop?


As per original rules, if you declare your corps to be inside the city, enemy can continue his move. If your corps is outside the city, the enemy has to stop its move and engage in a battle (Edit: this is handled as per original). There just isn't any option to retire inside the city after the enemy enters and you are outside (Edit: as opposed to original).

quote:


How will forage the corps finishing in an area and choosing to be in the city?


I'm not sure exactly what are you asking. If you besiege then the forage shouldn't be modified by unspent movement points, but the besieged corps also doesn't count for forage modifier.

quote:


Will the corps in a city modify the forage of an enemy corps moving in the same area?


Any unbesieged corps inside the area influences the forage roll.

< Message edited by pfnognoff -- 2/1/2005 9:56:13 PM >

(in reply to Titi)
Post #: 47
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