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Review of HoI2 over at wargamers

 
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Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/6/2005 2:22:55 PM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline 		Quote from the review: "It is quite simply the greatest strategic game of World War II ever produced"

Read the entire review here: http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/heartsofiron2/

< Message edited by Kung Karl -- 1/6/2005 12:31:41 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 2:30:25 PM   
Koper


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		He, he... Ravinhood, let the bashing commence!

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 2
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 2:33:22 PM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline 		Another qoute: "As a result Hearts of Iron 2 is about as bug free as can be expected of such a vast title, to the extent that after countless hours of play (in which I was actively searching for bugs) I couldn’t point out one solitary major bug that could have impeded my progress or interrupted my fun."

(in reply to Koper)
Post #: 3
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 2:40:29 PM   
Salient

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 8/4/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

It is quite simply the greatest strategic game of World War II ever produced, and sets the bar so high I have doubts if anyone else apart from Paradox themselves will ever have the guts to try and outdo it (though I certainly do hope somebody does…)

All those who wish to shape the fate of the world, queue here.




, what if he's right??

This must be a challenge for Matrix

< Message edited by Salient -- 1/6/2005 12:44:23 PM >

(in reply to Koper)
Post #: 4
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 3:03:58 PM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline 		A quote from a person who has the game posting at wargamers forum: "No ctd's, no imbalances as far as i can tell, multiplayer actually works. It's like Paradox had no hand in the production of this game at all! It runs so smooth! "

I think I have made my point now. :) I will get the game on monday, I hope all these coments are true.

(in reply to Salient)
Post #: 5
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 3:11:12 PM   
Salient

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 8/4/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		I'd wait a few more days/weeks and watch the Paradox forums carefully, at least that's what I'm gonna do. It is still a Paradox product...

But I do hope it is as good as they claim it to be.

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 6
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 4:24:12 PM   
EnPeaSea


Posts: 42
Joined: 12/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kung Karl

Another qoute: "As a result Hearts of Iron 2 is about as bug free as can be expected of such a vast title, to the extent that after countless hours of play (in which I was actively searching for bugs) I couldn’t point out one solitary major bug that could have impeded my progress or interrupted my fun."


A Paradox release that is not bug-ridden? The End Times must be upon us!

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 7
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 6:04:25 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline
quote:

Another qoute: "As a result Hearts of Iron 2 is about as bug free as can be expected of such a vast title, to the extent that after countless hours of play (in which I was actively searching for bugs) I couldn’t point out one solitary major bug that could have impeded my progress or interrupted my fun."


The way that was (cleaverly?) worded, does not sound promising..

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to EnPeaSea)
Post #: 8
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 6:21:23 PM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnPeaSea
A Paradox release that is not bug-ridden? The End Times must be upon us!


Yep !

Come on, nay-sayers, Paradoxians are waiting for you this time...

Cat

PS: And yes, I think the manual is one of the best produced by our swedish friends so far

< Message edited by CatLord -- 1/6/2005 4:22:39 PM >

_____________________________

Member of the Revolution Under Siege development team.

(in reply to EnPeaSea)
Post #: 9
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 6:23:42 PM   
CatLord


Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Koper

He, he... Ravinhood, let the bashing commence!
Play the game first please...

Cat

_____________________________

Member of the Revolution Under Siege development team.

(in reply to Koper)
Post #: 10
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 7:46:05 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Remember this is the same Wargamer site that praised the first HOI out of the box and has a HOI microsite that I'll bet Paradox is supporting with $.

(in reply to CatLord)
Post #: 11
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 8:06:49 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

The original Hearts of Iron, as I mentioned in my first impressions piece, was the first truly successful, if somewhat flawed, crack of the whip. I view it as being the game that laid down the basic principles and huge swathes of detail necessary to produce what we have now in Hearts of Iron 2, which is a game I will happily announce is, in my own humble estimation, the single greatest strategic level wargame of all time.



Well i have played for a few hours now and my view is the same.Matrix's World at war is far to lightweight to compete with this gem.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 12
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 8:28:16 PM   
Warfare1


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Another qoute: "As a result Hearts of Iron 2 is about as bug free as can be expected of such a vast title, to the extent that after countless hours of play (in which I was actively searching for bugs) I couldn’t point out one solitary major bug that could have impeded my progress or interrupted my fun."


The above is like saying "After driving my new convertible car around for a few hours I did not find one MAJOR mechanical fault that could have actually stopped my car dead in its tracks or impeded the wind blowing in my face."

LOL

I'll wait until players I trust report back about playing HoI2.

< Message edited by Warfare1 -- 1/6/2005 7:20:33 PM >

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 13
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 8:28:30 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Play the game first please...


Can't do that ... that would require that I buy it ...

A bad rep is a bad thing in the software business ... once you get it, there is no way to undo it.

Since I can't return it for a refund, I will never lay out the money.

Their only real solution is to produce a demo which is the full game and lets people play for 30 days with a key they get. Pay and the key gets converted to non-demo.

Thats what happens once you've lost your customers faith. It costs you to get it back.

(in reply to CatLord)
Post #: 14
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 8:55:28 PM   
Warfare1


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline 		Below is more from the review:


quote:

A Polished Gem

The original Hearts of Iron, as I mentioned in my first impressions piece, was the first truly successful, if somewhat flawed, crack of the whip. I view it as being the game that laid down the basic principles and huge swathes of detail necessary to produce what we have now in Hearts of Iron 2, which is a game I will happily announce is, in my own humble estimation, the single greatest strategic level wargame of all time.

If Hearts of Iron was the rough diamond extracted from the earth, Hearts of Iron 2 is the same gem having undergone the treatment of a master craftsman, polished to perfection and presented to a beautiful princess on an engagement ring. To put it into historical gaming terms, it is the leap from the great innovation that was Civilization to the pinnacle of perfection that was Civilization II.




I like this bit:

quote:

Hearts of Iron 2, which is a game I will happily announce is, in my own humble estimation, the single greatest strategic level wargame of all time.



Oh, boy

Now the red flags are really up and flying...

I hope the game can live up to such hype...

< Message edited by Warfare1 -- 1/6/2005 7:21:38 PM >

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 15
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 9:21:59 PM   
EnPeaSea


Posts: 42
Joined: 12/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1


The above is like saying "After driving my new convertible car around for a few hours I did not find one MAJOR mechanical default that could have actually stopped my car dead in its tracks or impeded the wind blowing in my face."


I think your comparison between automobile & software defects is a bit of a stretch.

(in reply to Warfare1)
Post #: 16
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 9:24:20 PM   
Warfare1


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EnPeaSea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1


The above is like saying "After driving my new convertible car around for a few hours I did not find one MAJOR mechanical default that could have actually stopped my car dead in its tracks or impeded the wind blowing in my face."


I think your comparison between automobile & software defects is a bit of a stretch.


It was all in the way the reviewer carefully crafted his words.

But please substitute anything else for car, and the result will still be the same.

Again, I hope this game can live up to all the hype.

(in reply to EnPeaSea)
Post #: 17
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 9:26:10 PM   
EnPeaSea


Posts: 42
Joined: 12/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Well i have played for a few hours now and my view is the same.Matrix's World at war is far to lightweight to compete with this gem.


I would prefer to say that WaW competes in a different segment then HoI2. There is certainly a market out there for less complex strategy games.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 18
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 9:38:49 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		Well, at least they did not have Larry Harris come out and start bragging about how great the highly advanced AI is suppose to be. :P

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to EnPeaSea)
Post #: 19
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/6/2005 10:31:23 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I would prefer to say that WaW competes in a different segment then HoI2. There is certainly a market out there for less complex strategy games.


Right. A global WWII strategy game that players can complete in a reasonable amount of time, and via PBEM, is a plus. HOI2 has its merits, but PBEM is not one of them. The two games will complement each other, rather than compete.

Contrary to my earlier reservations about HOI2, I'm beginning to warm up to it. It appears that many of the issues have been resolved. And the fact that this new version is significantly changed in many respects is a testament to the very real problems that existed with the original. 'nuf said. Let's hope HOI2 plays well. I'm now looking forward to both GGWAW and HOI2.

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 20
RE: Revew of HoI2 at wargamers - 1/6/2005 11:30:02 PM   
Koper


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Koper

He, he... Ravinhood, let the bashing commence!
Play the game first please...

Cat



I was just looking for good, old "It's only RTS crap!" kind of talk.

< Message edited by Koper -- 1/6/2005 9:30:27 PM >

(in reply to CatLord)
Post #: 21
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/6/2005 11:33:04 PM   
Hanal

 

Posts: 2312
Joined: 11/1/2003
Status: offline 		Well I must admit that despite having been burned with HOI, I am regaining some interest in the game ...I like the idea of doing away with all of those attack coordination issues, thus streamlining the combat, and also reducing the tech tree minutia....I will consider seriously purchasing it about 2 months after it is released to give it time to iron out any problems....

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 22
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 12:22:39 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

< Message edited by Veldor -- 1/11/2005 5:52:52 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Hanal)
Post #: 23
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 12:50:48 AM   
Koper


Posts: 34
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I thought we are wargamers here - who doesn't care for gfx, but what is beneath it?

Believe me, it's new game. Paradox simply gave up an idea of making same game with better, flashy gfx, focusing on the real things instead.

You can consider it "uber-patch", all right. I can say the same about WiTP (compared to PacWar). This is new game in terms so many aspects that it's actually hard to list. New diplomatic system. Serious adjustments to land combat/logistics. New system of missions for air combat. Completly new naval system. Completly new research system. Totally revamped trade system. Huge research effort put in detailed historical info, OOBs and so on...

Saying all that, it's still HoI in mayor concept - it's still continous time game and there is still no hexes around. Those two things can surely stop many players from having comfortable game experience with it. Plus of course, it's all about ahistorical situations - players ability to act on so many levels have to lead to much more ahistorical situations that in other games. Some people like it, some don't.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 24
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 1:35:47 AM   
Warfare1


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/20/2004
Status: offline 		Well, all of that sounds great.

I played HoI one and the continuous time and non-hexes did not bother me.

However,

What did bother me was the ability to control Brazil and then take on the entire world - LOL - this is after all suppose to be a WWII grand strategy game.

Plus, when the USA tried to invade Europe, it did so in penny packs and got slapped good for making the attempts (which it did time after time against the same beachheads).

The USA rarely invaded Japan.

Japan over-ran almost all of Asia because Britain did not reinforce India, etc...

Britain was useless in defending North Africa...

Italy was a powerhouse - LOL

and the USSR was conquered by Germany within two years...

In addition, the AI NEVER protected its most valuable cities (capitals and other strategic centres)... or if it did so, it was a miraculous fluke...

Naval warfare was a joke, and carriers were useless...

I could go on and on...

Have these all been fixed in HoI2?

< Message edited by Warfare1 -- 1/7/2005 12:09:58 AM >

(in reply to Koper)
Post #: 25
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 2:03:34 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Well, hoi was an uber lemon, and hoi2 will have to get the best reveiws ever to get my interest.. I really cannot stand cheesy lame ai in these type games... one reason that Decisive battles series went up two notches for me was pbem... and I am not sure how that would work in a game like hoi2...
I guess I am just fat and happy in wipt-a land, and the only title to get attention for solo play is rtw...

personal note.. am interested in the next Silent Hunter3, but it faces the same daunting tasks of de-turkey-fying itself from its predissesor..... SS2 was soooooo lame!

< Message edited by freeboy -- 1/13/2005 5:39:32 AM >

(in reply to Warfare1)
Post #: 26
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 2:30:06 AM   
fahdiz


Posts: 29
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

Have these all been fixed in HoI2?


Most of them have been fixed in HoI 1, as a matter of fact. But don't let that stop you.

(in reply to Warfare1)
Post #: 27
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 3:42:09 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

Quote from the review: "It is quite simply the greatest strategic game of World War II ever produced"


Now, just how many times have I read that "statement" before. And Arron McKenna is one of the bigest Paradox fanbois I know.

Whey you write an "unbiased" review, one certainly doesn't put a phrase into it like the one above "quite simply" the greatest", that is very biased and not the truth. Because for it to be the "truth", everyone would have to agree with him. Not what I would call professional journalism. The review reeks of "juvenile delight", which goes along with his young adult age I'm sure.

There's just no need to rush to buy on a "repeat" of the same game, same era, basically same design, it's more an enhancement to Hoi 1.06 than it is a fresh and new game. It also shouldn't be very buggy because it's the same game. The bugs this time around will be in the new UI and of course the AI as always. I don't expect the bugs of any previous Paradox games because this one isn't a "fresh new one", it's a repeat and until Paradox makes a complete new engine, and a complete new game and then releases it without being riddled with bugs, flaws, ctd's and an AI that is to laugh at, then I will change my tune.

This is what I would call "sugar coating" the Paradox community and trying to bring back the masses that have fled from the Paradox games because of their game release policies. It's the ole "cat-fish charlie" on the LURE to bring them in, then burn them again at a later date for another $40 pop.

(in reply to Kung Karl)
Post #: 28
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 3:47:41 AM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

There's just no need to rush to buy on a "repeat" of the same game, same era, basically same design, it's more an enhancement to Hoi 1.06


The people who actually own the game(like me) will laugh out load at such rubbish.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 29
RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/7/2005 3:52:03 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

The people who actually own the game(like me) will laugh out load at such rubbish.


Laugh all you want, I never said I wouldn't buy the game, I will just wait until it's under $15 on ebay within "oh I'll give it 2 months" on this one. ;)

My policy is not to support Paradox, never said I wouldn't "play" their games. ;)

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 30
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