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RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 3:38:06 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Well, it certainly prevents a TF from refueling at a port. It does that beautifully. I use it all the time when I'm sending a Transport TF to a forward base that has limited fuel supplies.

I just hadn't realized it might work at sea too. Gonna play with it and see what happens.

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 61
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 4:49:26 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		General operating rule #1.
Whenever possible, rearm, refuel, and rest.

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Post #: 62
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 5:32:17 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		The "Do Not Refuel" toggle is the second most used for my ACTF's. Handy gimmick, that.

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Post #: 63
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 5:51:33 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Ever notice in history of war how often a CV force was out of position for a battle because it was off refueling? How many players actually keep a replenhiment TF close at hand? The best way to keep an aircombat TF ready to fight is have it refueling everyturn at sea while scouts locate the enemy. Then the turn you want to fight a battle fuel is not an issue.
Let a DD actually run out of fuel and see what happens to the TF.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 1/21/2005 10:51:47 PM >

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Post #: 64
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 6:19:36 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Hang in there guy. I have the same problems once in awhile. But normally its due too one of the problems they have already spoke of.

I am in the middle of a pbem now(i am allied) and getting jap slapped all over the place.

He has "aero-planes" launching from everywhere! He probley would be flying off my carriers but their belly up at the bottom of the coral sea.

and the price of steel has gone way up in pittsburg.

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Post #: 65
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 8:08:44 AM   
CommC

 

Posts: 467
Joined: 8/3/2002
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		OK, wait a minute. My DDs don't take fuel at sea from CVs or cruisers unless I hit the "Replenish TF at sea" choice on the TF screen. I always refuel DDs manually this way.. and only when I am not expecting any enemy encounters. How do you get the DDs to refuel automatically while at sea?

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Post #: 66
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 8:11:06 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		When they get really low on fuel, they will siphon some off of the big boys automatically.
I call it "milk cowing".

By low, I mean low. Endurance of 5,000, start watching them when they hit 1500 or so. You will start to see op points being used at the start of your orders phase.

(in reply to CommC)
Post #: 67
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 9:16:35 AM   
von Murrin


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From: That from which there is no escape.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

OK, wait a minute. My DDs don't take fuel at sea from CVs or cruisers unless I hit the "Replenish TF at sea" choice on the TF screen. I always refuel DDs manually this way.. and only when I am not expecting any enemy encounters. How do you get the DDs to refuel automatically while at sea?


The only real way to keep them from auto-refuelling as 2ndACR states is to toggle the "Refuel Ok" option to "Do not Refuel", or tank the TF up every few days from AO's.

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Post #: 68
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 5:54:21 PM   
Charles2222


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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

OK, wait a minute. My DDs don't take fuel at sea from CVs or cruisers unless I hit the "Replenish TF at sea" choice on the TF screen. I always refuel DDs manually this way.. and only when I am not expecting any enemy encounters. How do you get the DDs to refuel automatically while at sea?


The only real way to keep them from auto-refuelling as 2ndACR states is to toggle the "Refuel Ok" option to "Do not Refuel", or tank the TF up every few days from AO's.


Unless something has been changed you are incorrect to think that the refueling okay has anything to do with doing so at sea. According to the manual, and I just read this yesterday, it has only to do with when the task force reaches either {a port or it's port destination}. I put that last bit in {}'s because I don't recall the wording exactly. I think it's thought that you're always picking ports for your destinations, therefore it will stop refuels 'at that port' if you turn the refuel off. I believe the wording was 'destination port' so if you treached another sort of destination, say open sea, I don't know if that makes a difference, and I also don't know if coinciding with other ports along the way, should they go through one, would be triggered then too or not.

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 69
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 6:06:48 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Thats right. A ship goes into the red at sea and has a fuel source in the hex (a larger ship) it is going to refuel

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Post #: 70
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 6:21:26 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Hmm, just so I understand:

1. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Refueling OK" set, then the DD will automatically refuel from the bigger ships in the TF, costing the bigger ships OPS points.

2. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Do Not Refuel" set, then the DD will not automatically refuel, and my CVs and other big ships in the TF will not lose OPS points. Correct?

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 71
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 6:25:13 PM   
dr. smith

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: lost in space
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Ever notice in history of war how often a CV force was out of position for a battle because it was off refueling? The best way to keep an aircombat TF ready to fight is have it refueling everyturn at sea while scouts locate the enemy. Then the turn you want to fight a battle fuel is not an issue.


Got a WHOLE new attitude towards Jack "Gotta go Top off the Tank" Fletcher now!! The man was an unappreciated GENIUS!!! A refueling God!

You da Man, Jack!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 72
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 7:00:27 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Hmm, just so I understand:

1. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Refueling OK" set, then the DD will automatically refuel from the bigger ships in the TF, costing the bigger ships OPS points.

2. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Do Not Refuel" set, then the DD will not automatically refuel, and my CVs and other big ships in the TF will not lose OPS points. Correct?



No, the refueling ok setting has nothing to do with ships at sea. Ships at sea will share their fuel as needed to prevent things from stopping.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 73
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 10:54:14 PM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Hmm, just so I understand:

1. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Refueling OK" set, then the DD will automatically refuel from the bigger ships in the TF, costing the bigger ships OPS points.

2. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Do Not Refuel" set, then the DD will not automatically refuel, and my CVs and other big ships in the TF will not lose OPS points. Correct?



No, the refueling ok setting has nothing to do with ships at sea. Ships at sea will share their fuel as needed to prevent things from stopping.


So, the only way to avoid me suffering through another disaster is to make sure I have abundent oilers chasing my carriers around at all times and every time I think there bad guys might show up I need to top off...correct?

Let me ask you this...say instead of having my small boys as part of the main task group I have them as a seperate group following the carriers...do I still get the AA and ASW protection and if they go red do they still seek out the larger warships for gas?

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Post #: 74
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 10:57:00 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Hmm, just so I understand:

1. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Refueling OK" set, then the DD will automatically refuel from the bigger ships in the TF, costing the bigger ships OPS points.

2. If I have a single Air Combat TF in a hex, and a DD in that TF has low fuel ("in the red"), and I have "Do Not Refuel" set, then the DD will not automatically refuel, and my CVs and other big ships in the TF will not lose OPS points. Correct?



No, the refueling ok setting has nothing to do with ships at sea. Ships at sea will share their fuel as needed to prevent things from stopping.


Good to know, even if it really doesn't change my play. My CV's move at the speed of my oilers anyhow.

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Post #: 75
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 11:11:57 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Not to point out the flaw ... but having your tankers follow your ships means they will always be left behind until you are *out* of fuel ...

Reverse your logic ... have the CV's follow the TK's and you'll never go wrong!

Always remember, you can *never* have enough fuel.

Other measures you can take is throwing a slower ship in to the CV TF which drags down the maximum speeds of all the ships resulting in lower fuel consumption rates for the cursed DDs.

(in reply to rroberson)
Post #: 76
RE: sigh - 1/22/2005 11:21:59 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline 		I think the ops points is how you also lost the cvl up by karachi. They didn't launch the one turn due to, probably your dd's refueling. That's why I had asked you about your fuel situation. Where you re-fueled, sri lanka, was a long ways away.

Basically think of it like this, your ships carry out missions by the use of op(operation) points. You get 1000. Thus you used a quarter of the ops for that task for in refueling.

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Post #: 77
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 12:59:29 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

I think the ops points is how you also lost the cvl up by karachi. They didn't launch the one turn due to, probably your dd's refueling. That's why I had asked you about your fuel situation. Where you re-fueled, sri lanka, was a long ways away.

Basically think of it like this, your ships carry out missions by the use of op(operation) points. You get 1000. Thus you used a quarter of the ops for that task for in refueling.



Oh I agree thats how I lost her...what I guess was struggling with was the idea of Ops points. I had not thought of it as "time spent" which is what it is. Its the 24 hour clock...250 points spent means for 8 hours your ships were doing something...the key is to keep it clear....I hadnt looked at it that way and I am pretty sure it explains my extreme losses in carriers in both of our games as well as a few others I had been playing. A frustrating lesson...but...a good one. Hopefully I can apply this new knowledge in a way that will benefit...well me of course :).


By the way, did you want to restart, carry on, or what...:)...I still have a few 1000 strategy questions to ask you about particularly your use of air and China.

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Post #: 78
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 2:05:38 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Not to point out the flaw ... but having your tankers follow your ships means they will always be left behind until you are *out* of fuel ...

Reverse your logic ... have the CV's follow the TK's and you'll never go wrong!

Always remember, you can *never* have enough fuel.

Other measures you can take is throwing a slower ship in to the CV TF which drags down the maximum speeds of all the ships resulting in lower fuel consumption rates for the cursed DDs.


Read it again. My CV's move at the speed of my oilers.

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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

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Post #: 79
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 3:58:37 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

Read it again. My CV's move at the speed of my oilers.


I was not replying to your comment The joys of forums ... you can't read what everyone's posting until the all hits post and we all tend to post at the same time

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Post #: 80
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 4:27:32 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dr. smith

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Ever notice in history of war how often a CV force was out of position for a battle because it was off refueling? The best way to keep an aircombat TF ready to fight is have it refueling everyturn at sea while scouts locate the enemy. Then the turn you want to fight a battle fuel is not an issue.


Got a WHOLE new attitude towards Jack "Gotta go Top off the Tank" Fletcher now!! The man was an unappreciated GENIUS!!! A refueling God!

You da Man, Jack!


Hi, Your right he was always caught refueling. He could have managed that better I think.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 81
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 7:00:09 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Read it again. My CV's move at the speed of my oilers.


I was not replying to your comment The joys of forums ... you can't read what everyone's posting until the all hits post and we all tend to post at the same time




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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

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Post #: 82
RE: sigh - 1/23/2005 7:06:57 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

ORIGINAL: von Murrin





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Post #: 83
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