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How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Metric or Standard?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War I] >> War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930 >> How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Metric or Standard? Page: [1]
[Poll]

How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Metric or Standard?


Metric: ex. 41cm/45 3YT Gun
  58% (44)
Standard: ex. 16.1in/45 3YT Gun
  41% (31)


Total Votes : 75
(last vote on : 8/23/2005 8:53:21 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Metric... - 2/6/2005 3:47:13 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Since Im all about listening to input, and doing what the masses want, how would you like to see the Japanese and French gun measurements listed, Metrix or Standard? The US and British navies used in the 1920's a standard system, i.e. British 12in/35 Mk VIII, or US 5in/51 Mk 7, but the Japanese and French historically used metric. Like War in the Pacific I have entered them in as standard, i.e. 16.1in/45 3YT, or 7.6" M1902. However, in the designation of the actual countries, they would be 41cm/45 3YT and 19.4cm/50 M1902 respectively. So, how would you rather have it, current WitP style or more accurate style?

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 5/4/2005 6:01:39 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
Post #: 1
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/6/2005 8:19:33 AM   
Jorm


Posts: 545
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Melbourne
Status: offline 		well, seeing as thats how they were represented i think thats a good way to go.
While ive never used the imperial system, i know what a 16" gun is by bothering to read about them etc etc .
Also it adds to the historical flavour in that thats how those nations represnted them.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 2
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/12/2005 9:48:36 PM   
Clipper1968


Posts: 445
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
Status: offline 		I voted for the metric system as "la Royale" has never used inches for their guns measurements and whatever...
In addition I just would like to inform you that we don't use the centimetre for those measures but the millimetre.
So for the examples you have provided it would be 410mm/45 3YT and 194mm/50 M1902 instead of 41cm/45 3YT and 19.4cm/50 M1902.The same for the Japanese.
Thus if the metric system is the winner I would appreciate this to be corrected for more accuracy before releasing.
Thanks in advance.

_____________________________

"s'instruire pour vaincre"

(in reply to Jorm)
Post #: 3
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/14/2005 2:06:39 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I voted for the English system. I have found it is easier to to do comparisons if everything uses the same units. Just my preference. I will, however, take what I can get. I can always do my own conversions.

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 4
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/14/2005 6:29:57 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pumba1968

I voted for the metric system as "la Royale" has never used inches for their guns measurements and whatever...
In addition I just would like to inform you that we don't use the centimetre for those measures but the millimetre.
So for the examples you have provided it would be 410mm/45 3YT and 194mm/50 M1902 instead of 41cm/45 3YT and 19.4cm/50 M1902.The same for the Japanese.
Thus if the metric system is the winner I would appreciate this to be corrected for more accuracy before releasing.
Thanks in advance.


What I will do in this instance is for Japanese guns use Centimeters (as I have seen it listed), and for French guns use milimeters. That should be the best of both worlds, and from the poll it would appear that metric will win out over standard. However, in the War Plan Orange ship manual, I will provide a conversion table to easily see what the Metric guns equivelate too.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Clipper1968)
Post #: 5
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/16/2005 4:57:20 AM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline 		I agree with BrucePowers, it's a lot easier to comparise...blah blah blah... So let's use for both Japanese and U.S. guns a metric standard!

_____________________________

Nec Temere Nec Timide
Bez strachu ale z rozwagą

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 6
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/18/2005 10:52:11 PM   
Cyberbachi


Posts: 14
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: PARIS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

I agree with BrucePowers, it's a lot easier to comparise...blah blah blah... So let's use for both Japanese and U.S. guns a metric standard!

I Agree.
Metric system is better...

< Message edited by Laurent_LAVAIL -- 2/18/2005 9:53:11 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Monter_Trismegistos)
Post #: 7
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/19/2005 5:18:48 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		I have just changed all Japanese and French armaments, with a few exceptions, to Metric.

The exceptions being the 12 and 9 pounder guns, and the Russian guns used on the few Japanese ex-Russian battleships not rearmed with Japanese guns.

These are the 12in/40 Pattern 1895 Gun, the 8in/45 Pattern 1892 Gun, and the 6in/45 Pattern 1895 Gun.

While I am going for nomenclature accuracy, the Japanese themselves weren't very accurate.

Japanese 14 inch guns are listed as 35cm guns, in reality they are 35.6cm.
Japanese 10 inch guns are listed as 25cm guns, in reality they are 25.4cm.
Japanese 8 inch guns are listed as 20cm guns, in reality they are 20.3cm.
Japanese 6 inch guns are listed as 15cm, in reality they are 15.2cm.
Japanese 3 inch guns are listed as 8cm, in relaity they are 7.62cm.

Because of room limitations, I have had to label Japanese torpedoes as 53cm weapons, not 53.3cm weapons.

My aim is to accurately (and correctly) produce nomenclature, not necessarily correct bore sizes.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 2/18/2005 9:22:35 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 8
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/19/2005 5:40:44 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		To follow up on this, and show the difference, here are screens comparing the two. The first is of the Fuso in 1926, with the original standard armament:



Then the Settsu with Metric (and the 35cm/50s and 35cm/45s are not typos. The centerline turrets were 50 cal guns, the wing turrets 45s):



And, the French Desaix, now with Metric guns (listed in milimeters, not centimeters, as requested):



_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 9
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/19/2005 8:21:46 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		A note, ignore the ranges on the screens for the 12" and 14" guns, I just realized that I gave the max range for the 43 degree elevations, as rebuilt in the 1930s. In th e'20s they were only capable of about 30 degree elevation. The 30.5cm/50 41YT Gun now only has a reach to 27,000 yards, and the 35cm/45 41YT to 32,000 yards.

EDIT: I just noticed that I had never refreshed Settsu's guns, so now her 12cm guns are in single mounts, and she has no torp reloads.

Also, the reason the torpedoes are so powerful is to represent (for the time) weak torpedo systems. WitP assumes that torpedoes would strike the armor belt, and I didn't think this too realistic, considering battleships of the day weren't able to resist multiple hits. The explosive charge is historical, but I added about 30-40 to the penetration value, to better represent the lack of universal TDSs on ships. Some ships, like HMS Marlborough, shrugged off a torpedo hit, but others like SMS Pomern simply blew up after one. Also, all torpedoes have a fairly high dud rate. (avg of 50-60)

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 2/19/2005 12:34:22 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 10
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/19/2005 1:34:48 PM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:
Japanese 8 inch guns are listed as 20cm guns, in reality they are 20.3cm.


Sorry pal, they are listed as 200mm guns,and in reality THEY WERE 200mm guns. So Aoba, Kinugasa, Furutaka and Kako at first they had 6x200 in single turrets. The re-calibration (?it is the correct word?) process of these (and other of the same calliber)barrels to 203mm started in late 30's, so in IIWW every japanese cruiser had 203mm's not 200mm's.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 11
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 2/19/2005 7:46:03 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

quote:

ORIGINAL:
Japanese 8 inch guns are listed as 20cm guns, in reality they are 20.3cm.


Sorry pal, they are listed as 200mm guns,and in reality THEY WERE 200mm guns. So Aoba, Kinugasa, Furutaka and Kako at first they had 6x200 in single turrets. The re-calibration (?it is the correct word?) process of these (and other of the same calliber)barrels to 203mm started in late 30's, so in IIWW every japanese cruiser had 203mm's not 200mm's.


You are correct. However, you are not right in this case, as I am refering to British built Elswick 8inch Guns of 203mm. Remember, War Plan Orange takes place before the Japanese treaty cruiser were built, and in fact assumes they were not built. Ergo, for the guns listed, they are classed as 20cm guns, but are in fact 20.3cm guns.

The weapons you refer too (which are 20cm, not 20.3cm) are 20cm/50 3YT-I guns, and later the 20cm/50 3YT-II Gun which was 20.3cm. However, in the timeframe covered by War Plan Orange the gun I am referring too is the British 8in/45 Elswick (later 41YT) Gun, which was redesignated 20cm/45 41YT in 1917, although it was actually 20.3cm.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 2/19/2005 12:04:09 PM >

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Monter_Trismegistos)
Post #: 12
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 3/8/2005 10:28:16 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		of course I voted metric too as its realistic. Not our fault if you guys still use an antiquated system for ranges

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 13
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 3/13/2005 11:46:42 PM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		I think you mean metric or non-standard.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 14
RE: How do you want Japanese and French Guns listed: Me... - 3/14/2005 6:26:00 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

of course I voted metric too as its realistic. Not our fault if you guys still use an antiquated system for ranges


We use the metric system in the USA but only in reference to crime.

Example: The suspect was captured carrying a 9mm pistol and a kilo of cocaine.

Aside from that the English system works just fine for us. Learn how to divide/multiple by a number other than 10 and you will be ok.

4th down and centimeters?
give a centimeter and they will take a kilometer?
2.54 centimeter worms?
walk 1.6 kilometers in a man's shoes before judging him?
454 grams of flesh?

Just doesn't have the same ring to it.


_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)
Post #: 15
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