Leader bug and possible sacrilege???

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Leader bug and possible sacrilege???

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Leader bug and possible sacrilege???

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 1:11:29 AM

treespider

Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline

With all I have read about this mysterious leader bug... how difficult would it be to remove this layer of chrome from the game? In other words just remove the leaders from the game entirely. Yes they are interesting but how much do they actually add to the game?

Post #: 1

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 1:39:58 AM

byron13

Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline

Sacrilege! Thou shallt be drawn, quartered, quartered again (the rare "sixteenthing" of the victim), tarred, feathered, and your various parts spread over the globe.

(in reply to treespider)

Post #: 2

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 2:44:44 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Somebody else suggests it, it's funny. When I suggested this two months ago, it drew as much positive attention as though I had dropped trou and taken a dump on grandma's new white shag carpet (note I said positive attention).

I can get no sensible answer from the company or their representatives about the degree to which leader ratings and other information (in particular, their best use) affect play. I suspect that the answer is, "Not by much."

I say sh1tcan the whole leader deal. I don't have much use for the individual pilots thingie, either (and said so back in the UV days).

I thought PacWar handled leaders far better than UV/WitP.

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 3

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 2:48:31 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, I think leaders are very important.

Leaders are why some ground combats are 6 to 1 and others are 0-1 with the same unit commanded by different leaders.

Leaders are why Allied Naval TF early in game get creamed so often.

Leaders are why air groups get the bounce.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 4

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 2:52:49 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

I too think leaders are important.... that's why I get so frustrated when my awsome Fighter Commander with 50 kills who skillfully wields his P-39 groups against Zeros gets replaced by a 0/0 WO during the turn execution, and I loose 50 P-39s...

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 5

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 2:53:16 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Then let's see physical evidence of the calculation so that we know what the specific effects of leaders are.

I'm really tired of this game playing hide the banana all the time.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 6

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:00:06 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I too think leaders are important.... that's why I get so frustrated when my awsome Fighter Commander with 50 kills who skillfully wields his P-39 groups against Zeros gets replaced by a 0/0 WO during the turn execution, and I loose 50 P-39s...

Yes, I tried to be a good boy and play along. Then I sent out sub patrols commanded by some sushified nitwit, and Japanese ASW air patrols started sinking them left and right.

I'm only asking for what I think is reasonable. If leaders have an effect in the game, it ought to be spelled out for the players to see instead of guess at or learn after a thousand times of playing the game. If they are not that important and, perforce, the leader bugs are not significant, and the game is playable anyway, then get rid of them if the whole leader dynamic is so screwed up that it can't be fixed.

One way or the other, we customers need a solution to this - and, as players, we need sufficient information to be able to play a game in which leaders are a significant part (if this is actually so).

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 7

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:02:44 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

HI, Edit scenario 1 ships to crew and CO 50 both sides
Load scenario H2H
Form TF each side with leader fight naval battle
Form TF without leader fight naval battle
Form TF only 1 side with leader (fight battle 2 times giving leader to each side once)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 2/7/2005 8:02:44 PM >

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 8

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:16:19 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Why would I want to go through all that crap when the result would still not tell me what I want to know?

Give me facts. Give me tables of leader effects for various characteristics at different levels. Tell me in plain English what it means for a leader to be "best suited" for something.

I ain't no fool, and I don't take what I don't want (and I ain't no Nero, 'cause I ain't interested in fiddling around).

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 9

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:40:25 AM

Stvitus2002

Posts: 261
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Perhaps there IS a solution. From what i've heard, there are over 19000 leaders
in the game, right? Assuming that both japanese & allied leaders are in the same database, how hard would it be to seperate them into 2 databases? Thereby eliminating any crossover. Is this possible?

Joe D.

(in reply to treespider)

Post #: 10

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:52:02 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Brother Mog -

The Natives are restless. They lack belief. They see two parallel games with drastically different computer-controlled actions, such as planes appearing in one but not in the other.

Wait a minute, that's a new Creed point - I'll have to go add it to my list. (Writes some notes in pencil on the back of the Holy Tablets)

They want knowledge and your offer them Faith. Remember our Motto - Knowledge is Ignorance!

Keep up the Good Work.

Yours in the WitP Creed -

Brother Dave

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 11

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 3:56:18 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

"I Moses, bearing a gift from God, deliver unto you these 15 (WHAM!!!!) uh, 10 commandments."

_____________________________

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 12

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 4:24:02 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, Well in less time then it take to post a complaint you can load up the editor and look at leader values.
The problem as I see it is people want to know mathamaticly who to put in command.
I don't bother with it.
I assign leaders using the "leadership" rating. I also look at their personality (aggressive or cautious)
Between these two items I assign leaders.
If it says "rear area" I don't put him in command of my next assault.
If it says "transport" I don't assign him to my carrier fighters
But mostly I just go by leadership. I mean what do you need? If you are looking for a leader try "leadership"

I believe (and I've been saying this for months) That there are no functions or results that do not use leadership in calculating results.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 13

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:03:21 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Well in less time then it take to post a complaint you can load up the editor and look at leader values.
The problem as I see it is people want to know mathamaticly who to put in command.
I don't bother with it.
I assign leaders using the "leadership" rating. I also look at their personality (aggressive or cautious)
Between these two items I assign leaders.
If it says "rear area" I don't put him in command of my next assault.
If it says "transport" I don't assign him to my carrier fighters
But mostly I just go by leadership. I mean what do you need? If you are looking for a leader try "leadership"

I believe (and I've been saying this for months) That there are no functions or results that do not use leadership in calculating results.

You're not listening, pal. I do exactly what you say you do. It was good enough for me until the leader bugs showed up. Then, and particularly after no solution was forthcoming, more precise information became necessary. That's when I started asking for it, and that's the point from which I have been stonewalled, jackson.

If it doesn't matter, fine. I'll leave Kyo Sakamoto in charge of singing sayonara on the bridge of the USS River Kwai instead of Obi wan Kenobi.

But if it does matter, I would like to know how.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 14

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:05:12 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, Ah ok. It's a bug thing. I hope we squash that critter soon.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 15

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:11:55 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

Maybe this it:

Well, the leader bug is a big bug.

_____________________________

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 16

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:36:32 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 17

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:39:04 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OMG, I just laughed and spit water all over my monitor.... hahahahahaha That is great. Well, sort of.

_____________________________

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 18

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:40:03 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

WATER???

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 19

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:41:49 AM

DeepSix

Posts: 395
Joined: 12/22/2004
From: Music City
Status: offline

ROFL. Your borgs are being approximated, sir!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 20

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:45:29 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

WATER???

Hehe, I live ona dry campus so all I can drink is water and diet coke. Kinda sucks.

_____________________________

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 21

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:48:28 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

WATER???

Hehe, I live ona dry campus so all I can drink is water and diet coke. Kinda sucks.

WTF? A dry campus? Is oral sex illegal too? Geez...land of the free.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 22

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 6:50:02 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

WATER???

Hehe, I live ona dry campus so all I can drink is water and diet coke. Kinda sucks.

WTF? A dry campus? Is oral sex illegal too? Geez...land of the free.

No, but in this state XXX pornos are illegal.... not that exactly stops them....and not that I just said that

_____________________________

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 23

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 7:01:17 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, Goat ropers National Anthem.

We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee;
An' we don't take our trips on LSD.
We don't burn no draft cards down on Main Street;
We like livin' right, an' bein' free.

We don't make no party out of lovin';
We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo;
We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy,
Like the hippies out in San Francisco do.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave 'Old Glory' down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

Hey, leather boots are still in style for manly footwear;
Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.
An' football's still the roughest thing on campus,
And the kids there still respect the college dean.

And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
A place where even squares can have a ball.
We still wave 'Old Glory' down at the courthouse,
And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all,
In Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 24

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 7:04:00 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

Ouch....my pride. Actually, Im Northeast of Muskogee, and its no better. How many times can a person be told "You're going to Hell!" in a single day.... Well, at least won't get burned at the stake for beliveing in a heliocentric solar system

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 2/7/2005 11:04:24 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 25

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 7:10:14 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Greetings, My Brothers today we have expanded our conquest of WITP.

Crap it didn't work. He is supposed to twitch his antenane

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 2/8/2005 12:10:55 AM >

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 26

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 7:18:46 AM

von Murrin

Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

.

Can't... stop... laughing!

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 27

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 7:51:34 AM

Onime No Kyo

Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

"I Moses, bearing a gift from God, deliver unto you these 15 (WHAM!!!!) uh, 10 commandments."

Moses writing down commandments on Ms. Sinai.

-God-"Moses, did you get the thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife"?
-Moses-"Yes"
-God-"Ok, commandment number 11"
-Moses-"God, can we just leave it at 10?"
-God-"Moses, don't haggle"
-Moses-"Where does it say 'thou shalt not haggle'?"

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 28

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 8:14:04 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
WTF? A dry campus? Is oral sex illegal too?

If it's a dry campus, it would have to be.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 29

RE: Leader bug and possible sacrilege??? - 2/8/2005 8:51:36 AM

33Vyper

Posts: 542
Joined: 10/20/2004
From: New Westminster BC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

With all I have read about this mysterious leader bug... how difficult would it be to remove this layer of chrome from the game? In other words just remove the leaders from the game entirely. Yes they are interesting but how much do they actually add to the game?

I suddenly had an image of you being tried in a Monty Python like court of law....he's a heretic...burn him...burn him... a witch i tell you a witch....

Then with the buzz from the last beer slowly waining

I saw the light....not such a bad idea. Turn the damn things off or at the least create a line of code that does not allow for the Japanese list to be accessed to fill US commands...and vice versa surely to god that cannot be that hard to do

(in reply to treespider)

Post #: 30

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Leader bug and possible sacrilege???