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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Vehicle Production (Japs)

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Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/15/2005 6:37:44 AM

romanovich

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From: SoCal
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I'm haggling with the Japanese Production System (checked the manual, but nothing there). I play the big scenario (15 or so), w/ prod turned on. I have decent prod capabilities for armament and vehicles by now, and I can proudly report - for example - that my busy workers have manufactured 2790 37mm AT Guns, which are "In Pool Now". Too bad that no one seems to want them: "Used from Pool" from this item are a mere 258 units. What a waste!
Also: Engineering vehicles. Those would be great to have - as it seems that my engineers build ports with their bare hands. Incredible feat, but it does take quite long. Production of engineer vehicles meanwhile is 0! I'm in late April 42 by now... Shouldn't the Japs have figured out by now how to put an engine into a vehicle?

In short: how do I tell the game what KIND of vehicles/armament I want my vehicle/armament factories to produce?

Help! Anyone?

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/15/2005 7:31:25 AM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: romanovich

I'm haggling with the Japanese Production System (checked the manual, but nothing there). I play the big scenario (15 or so), w/ prod turned on. I have decent prod capabilities for armament and vehicles by now, and I can proudly report - for example - that my busy workers have manufactured 2790 37mm AT Guns, which are "In Pool Now". Too bad that no one seems to want them: "Used from Pool" from this item are a mere 258 units. What a waste!
Also: Engineering vehicles. Those would be great to have - as it seems that my engineers build ports with their bare hands. Incredible feat, but it does take quite long. Production of engineer vehicles meanwhile is 0! I'm in late April 42 by now... Shouldn't the Japs have figured out by now how to put an engine into a vehicle?

In short: how do I tell the game what KIND of vehicles/armament I want my vehicle/armament factories to produce?

Help! Anyone?

IIRC the 37mm AT guns in the pool are not actually produced but they are put there by replacing them with the better 47mm in the field.

Japanese don't have engineer veichles, instead they got engineer regiments

(in reply to romanovich)

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/15/2005 8:18:16 AM

romanovich

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From: SoCal
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Uh. Comforting to know! So much for building lots of stuff...

Thanks for the post!

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Post #: 3

RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/15/2005 11:20:01 AM

Gen.Hoepner

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Japanese armament production is very strange. BTW my suggestion is to halt the production of vehicles when you reach a certain number in the pool. Save as much HI points as you can. Do not waste your production. When the tide will change you'll need those saved HI points like the desert needs the rain!

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/15/2005 11:28:13 PM

BraveHome

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From: Tulsa, OK
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This of course also goes for Armament itself (I always seem to build this up much more rapidly than vehicles), old aircraft whose engines you shouldn't be producing much (like the Hickory), etc. Can pay huge dividends in building up HI for later use, as you say. Although instead of "like the desert needs the rain" I prefer "like the Allies need the pain"...

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 2/17/2005 12:46:31 PM

harrer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BraveHome
Although instead of "like the desert needs the rain" I prefer "like the Allies need the pain"...

Harrer

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 6:13:35 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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quote:

In short: how do I tell the game what KIND of vehicles/armament I want my vehicle/armament factories to produce?

There is no way to do this, but the AI does seem to manage this task quite well on its own. Your vehicle and armaments points (combined with manpower points) are converted into squads and weapons on an as-needed basis, the need being what is required to fill out the units that have qualified to draw replacement points during this turn. The thing is, you can't really afford to turn these factories off, as they actually provide only a trickle compared to the very large potential needs of the IJA. I regularly see several thousand accumulated armaments points vanish in a single turn's worth of replacement points.

Well, there is sort of a way to determine what gets made and what doesn't. If all you want to build is engineers and aviation support (as an example), go through and set all non-engineering units to "do not receive replacements". But I don't really think this is a very good idea. The replacement process is so slow, and IJA has so much catching up to do (notice how all the units that arrive as reinforcements, arrive at about 25% of their TOE?), you need to keep cranking them out full bore every turn. Just keep in mind that "full bore" is but a very modest flow.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 3/1/2005 11:16:00 AM >

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 6:20:33 PM

tsimmonds

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The thing to remember is that the AI does not build for the pool; instead it builds for the current turn's replacement point requirements. But it does so in batches, the size of which are determined according to some logic that I have not been able to penetrate, with most of the current turn's output of weapons and squads going directly to LCUs, and the leftover "change" going into the pool. It builds weapons and squads as needed, so the armaments points are like money in the bank. Weapons in the pool are potentially (or in some cases, actually--see 37mm ATG) obsolescent.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 3/1/2005 11:21:17 AM >

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 7:31:58 PM

AmiralLaurent

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As far as I know, all armaments factories only produce armament points, that are added to a pool:

points are drawn from the pool in three cases:

_ an unit with replacement turned on need replacements. Points are used to build each squad or weapon (one armament and one manpower for each load factor of the squad/gun)

_ a new unit is created. Armament points are used to create it. If there isn't enough points, unit arrive at 25% TOE (manual, I confirm that).

_ an upgrade is possible (example: replacing 37mm AT guns with 47mm AT guns). Armaments points are used to do this.

So even with all units not allowed to receive replacements, you still use armament points.

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 7:36:36 PM

Charles2222

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Hey isn't all the toggles the opposite of what you think you're getting? IOW, if I want replacements, the toggel should say 'do not recieve replacements' right? If not then I'm totally screwed up. I at first thougth my seeing 'accept replacements' gave air units in particular replacements, but over time, although it did seem they got some but usually only up to the maximum for the unit, that the ones seeminly with replacements toggled off were getting better allotments (certainly over the maximum in any case). I keep suspecting my old understanding is incorrect, and the way I stated it now is correct, only I keep thinking that there's some exception somewhere in order to make it totally confusing, such as maybe ground units breaking the toggle rule.

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Post #: 10

RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 7:39:59 PM

tsimmonds

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quote:

_ a new unit is created. Armament points are used to create it. If there isn't enough points, unit arrive at 25% TOE (manual, I confirm that).

And there will almost never be enough points (is the 25% TOE that an LCU arrives with in this case "free" then?). After it has arrived, it is far below strength and so is now in the category of "needing replacements"

quote:

_ an upgrade is possible (example: replacing 37mm AT guns with 47mm AT guns). Armaments points are used to do this.

I can imagine that this would fall into the category of "replacements", that is, if the LCU were set for "no replacements" it would also receive no upgrades.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 3/1/2005 12:40:51 PM >

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/2/2005 12:12:08 AM

BraveHome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Hey isn't all the toggles the opposite of what you think you're getting? IOW, if I want replacements, the toggel should say 'do not recieve replacements' right? If not then I'm totally screwed up. I at first thougth my seeing 'accept replacements' gave air units in particular replacements, but over time, although it did seem they got some but usually only up to the maximum for the unit, that the ones seeminly with replacements toggled off were getting better allotments (certainly over the maximum in any case). I keep suspecting my old understanding is incorrect, and the way I stated it now is correct, only I keep thinking that there's some exception somewhere in order to make it totally confusing, such as maybe ground units breaking the toggle rule.

That's certainly an issue they've not been consistent with. My first PBEM, I lost 7 days production when I set all Japanese production toggles to RESTART, thinking that meant they were RESTARTED (how could I have been so dense), when the HALT setting actually means they're RESTARTED (i.e., the button meant the action to take, not the current status).

However, in this case, according to page 115 of the manual,

"No Replacements/Accept Replacements, which will either not allow or allow,
respectively, replacements to be accepted by the squadron"

signifies to me that in this case what you see is what you get. Page 148 also indicates this.

Late Edit -- also, can tell if toggle correct by setting groups of troops to No Replacements, click the Army button they're in and set group to replacements and then see that Accept Replacements is toggle now set.

< Message edited by BraveHome -- 3/1/2005 9:47:52 PM >

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/2/2005 4:09:47 AM

Zeta16

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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

_ a new unit is created. Armament points are used to create it. If there isn't enough points, unit arrive at 25% TOE (manual, I confirm that).

And there will almost never be enough points (is the 25% TOE that an LCU arrives with in this case "free" then?). After it has arrived, it is far below strength and so is now in the category of "needing replacements"

quote:

_ an upgrade is possible (example: replacing 37mm AT guns with 47mm AT guns). Armaments points are used to do this.

I can imagine that this would fall into the category of "replacements", that is, if the LCU were set for "no replacements" it would also receive no upgrades.

I am in late 12/43 PBEM and have 170573 armament points stored up, but I wished I had more a several divisions are close to coming on line.

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/2/2005 11:40:37 AM

Twotribes

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As I understand it.... when a Unit arrives it will attempt ( Japanese) to come on full strength, using points from the pool to do so, if unable to do that because of a lack of points it will expend NO points and come on at 25 percent strength. So yes the 25 percent is free in that sense.

Upgrades are not replacements, they will occur no matter what you set replacements for, I believe this has been confirmed in several threads. In the case of Aircraft and Ships you have a toggle for upgrades, but with land units no such toggle is available.

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/4/2005 2:38:52 AM

sadja

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One problem with the 25% free is as they build up there exp heads down. They also come in with 100prep points for there command. A little gameing is change the prep for the command HQ if you want to send the incomming unit somewhere else. but if you wait to fill out the prep points will be 100 anyway by the time you move that unit.

sadja

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/15/2005 10:29:50 PM

Mike Solli

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One thing that drives me nuts is that on turn one all the Japanese Airborne units will trade in their 37 mm ATGs for 47s, which are not air transport capable. If I happen to use those units, they leave the 47s behind. I wish we had the ability to turn off upgrading to specific units.

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RE: Vehicle Production (Japs) - 3/20/2005 2:37:16 AM

scout1

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From: South Bend, In
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Follow on question .....

The manual states that 6 HI points per factory are required for the ante for vehicle production to initate. It later states that Hi is expended for each vehicle point produced. It's not clear whether it is consuming the 6x HI per vehicle point or some other number. Anyone know ?

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Post #: 17

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Vehicle Production (Japs)

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