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RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 3:48:45 AM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		I have crewed on the Adventure a 120 ton Gloucester fishing schooner and on the Spirit of Massachusetts which is a little smaller. This is not a 340 ton vessel and she is not a scow. She is also not a sloop, sailing sloops have one mast she is no more a sloop than a two seat convertible is a sedan.

Of the suggestions I have seen the one I like the most is the Lanikai. Its hard to tell for sure but the bow is similar and the stern has the same shape as the boat on the book cover but the book cover could be inaccurate.

One account I found in a quick search said that the US Army had over 300 schooners in service of one type or another during the war. I doubt that is accurate but I am certain that there were a lot of them. The type was very common for cargo carrying in the carribean and the pacific, they were everywhere.

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Post #: 31
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:03:50 AM   
Crimguy


Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline 		I agree, Abel Tasman seems right.

http://www.vitechgroup.com.au/tships/tasman.htm


And see parent link (AK-95):
http://www.vitechgroup.com.au/tships/ww2pho2.htm

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Post #: 32
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:06:53 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I have crewed on the Adventure a 120 ton Gloucester fishing schooner and on the Spirit of Massachusetts which is a little smaller. This is not a 340 ton vessel and she is not a scow. She is also not a sloop, sailing sloops have one mast she is no more a sloop than a two seat convertible is a sedan.

Of the suggestions I have seen the one I like the most is the Lanikai. Its hard to tell for sure but the bow is similar and the stern has the same shape as the boat on the book cover but the book cover could be inaccurate.

One account I found in a quick search said that the US Army had over 300 schooners in service of one type or another during the war. I doubt that is accurate but I am certain that there were a lot of them. The type was very common for cargo carrying in the carribean and the pacific, they were everywhere.


I stand corrected - i said "sloop" when i meant schooner.

As for this ship not being 340 tons - the Echo is described as a scow. Now, normally "scows" are a type of barge, however, it turns out there are racing (sailing) scows. This is a sailing boat that from the side looks like your normal schooner (from pics i looked at) HOWEVER, these are VERY wide, flat bottomed vessels that draw very little water. They are 3-4 times as broad as a typical yacht (from building diagrams shown on web). So, if a scow is just a little longer than your Gloucester schooner, it could displace quite a bit more.

However, this is rushing the point. We don't know if the vessel shown is a scow-type yacht (it isn't by the usual definition) (nor do we know what the Echo looks like (no. of masts, etc.)

EDIT: I can not find a picture a large sailing scow, just some dinky racing boats. The small boats DO NOT look like this ship. However, apparently there is a type of "scow" particular to New Zealand. I don't know what these look like. I'll keep looking. But this schooner/yacht/whatever does not look particularly broad-beamed and therefore is (probably) not a scow, unless the NZ scow is something strange (i.e. - not meeting the usual definition of scow).

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 2/17/2005 12:21:21 AM >

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RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:31:46 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

I agree, Abel Tasman seems right.

http://www.vitechgroup.com.au/tships/tasman.htm


And see parent link (AK-95):
http://www.vitechgroup.com.au/tships/ww2pho2.htm


??? There is a picture of Abel Tasman - I agree she looks ALMOST right, but she is called AK-94.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 34
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:37:02 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
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From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

???









vs Abel Tasman





Darn close...including the shape of the stern, approximate dimensions and paired sructures astride the foremast.

Apparent differences: There is a structure on the deck just before the aft mast which does not appear in the Abel Tasman pic. There appears to be a canvas awning over the stern of the mystery boat...both of these might have been added late, of course. Also, the bow architecture appears different but it might just be the perspective.

Also, I dont see any davits over the stern on the Abel Tasman and the attachment site for the rigging that runs along the hull (I dont konw what this is called) seems to extend further toward the bow on tyhe mystery boat..?perspective?

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/17/2005 2:41:08 AM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:52:37 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Another Pic..identified as AK-94 Abel Tasman...note the canvas awning over the stern



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Post #: 36
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:58:27 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Another Pic..identified as AK-94 Abel Tasman...note the canvas awning over the stern




This website is confusing! At one point they refer to Abel Tasman as AK-94 (and show a picture of her with 94 painted on her bow), yet on the next page they show AK-95 and call HER the Abel Tasman.

I think this is AK-95 - cousin or sister to Abel Tasman. What the name of the ship is i don't know. I'll keep looking.

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Post #: 37
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 5:06:37 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		There was an AK 95 in the USN...it just had a displacemnt of 4000 tons

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Post #: 38
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 5:11:43 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

There was an AK 95 in the USN...it just had a displacemnt of 4000 tons


Well, this is a tad smaller, i think.

I finally found the name for the Australian AK-95 - Sir John Franklin. Unfortunately, the link to the photo doesn't work!! I'll see if there is another.

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Post #: 39
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 5:26:12 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Well - can not find another picture of AK-95 Sir John Franklin. The link with the broken picture is also from the www.vitechgroup.com but i didn't find any way to get to it except for a seach engine. The non-photo is labelled "AK95 "Sir John Franklin" (Ketch) 1945. This Photograph was taken at Lae, New Guinea".

This might fit. Of course, if it turns out this is the (ketch) AK-55 as we originally thought...

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Post #: 40
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 6:41:21 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Nice work...we could always email the curator of the Whyalla Shipyard museum in Tasmania and see if he has a pic.

Of course...it is just possible that the purpose of the exercise was to identify the DUKW

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Post #: 41
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 7:42:32 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		DUKW, it is


AK95, it is

......................

I could not Find the Original Name for the AK 95, but It apears that the Name Sir John Franklin, is indead corect, I must admit I am impreased, I was hesistant to run this because of how hard I felt it was going to be to ID, WTG guys

Pictured at Lae, New Gunie 9th of July 44, AK 95 was atached to the Austrailia 12th Small Ships Company.

...............

Another Pick of AK95:



< Message edited by Brady -- 2/17/2005 5:54:33 AM >

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Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

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Post #: 42
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 12:01:58 PM   
Bill Durrant


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Oxfordshire
Status: offline 		Great "Name this...."

Thanx Brady - and well done to all you researchers

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Post #: 43
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 12:50:51 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Incredible work, everyone. I'm very, very impressed.
Steve.

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Post #: 44
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/17/2005 4:45:30 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Great one...that was fun.

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Post #: 45
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/18/2005 4:45:07 AM   
Dutchgy2000


Posts: 175
Joined: 2/3/2005
Status: offline 		One of the few sources about this:

Forgotten Fleet: a history of the part played by Australian men and ships in the U.S. Army Small Ships Section in New Guinea, 1942-1945; Bill Lunney; Forfleet Publishing, 7 Wade Close, Medowie NSW 2318, Tel. 049 828437; ISBN 0 646 26048 0.

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Post #: 46
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/18/2005 3:50:32 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchgy2000

One of the few sources about this:

Forgotten Fleet: a history of the part played by Australian men and ships in the U.S. Army Small Ships Section in New Guinea, 1942-1945; Bill Lunney; Forfleet Publishing, 7 Wade Close, Medowie NSW 2318, Tel. 049 828437; ISBN 0 646 26048 0.


Thanks for the reference. Just to make things more confusing, in trying the research IX-95 Echo, the NZ Scow-Yacht, i kept running accross "Forgotten Fleet" - but the subtitle was about New Zealand Scows. Different book, same title.

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Post #: 47
RE: Name This...(313) - 2/18/2005 6:03:52 PM   
Dutchgy2000


Posts: 175
Joined: 2/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutchgy2000

One of the few sources about this:

Forgotten Fleet: a history of the part played by Australian men and ships in the U.S. Army Small Ships Section in New Guinea, 1942-1945; Bill Lunney; Forfleet Publishing, 7 Wade Close, Medowie NSW 2318, Tel. 049 828437; ISBN 0 646 26048 0.


Thanks for the reference. Just to make things more confusing, in trying the research IX-95 Echo, the NZ Scow-Yacht, i kept running accross "Forgotten Fleet" - but the subtitle was about New Zealand Scows. Different book, same title.



To update this just a bit, there is also;

Forgotten Fleet 2; An updated and expanded history of the part played by Australian men and ships in the U.S. Army small ships section in New Guinrea, 1942-1945/ Bill Lunney and Ruth Lunney. Medowie N.S.W., Forfleet Publishing, 2004.


Forgotten Fleet 1 is now out of print, but can be found in Sydney's main libraries, the war memorial in Canberra plus other libraries in Australia. In the USA it is in the library of the U.S, Army Centre of Military History in Washington D.C, the Naval Academy Indianapolis Maryland and the MacArthur Museum Norfolk Virginia. (Also noticed a few second hand copies available on the net not that long ago)

Forgotten Fleet 2 offers a revised, updated and expanded history of the men and ships. Details of more than 1,000 ships are and more than 1,500 men. Like the earlier version this new work is constructed of records and memories and memorabilia.

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