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Aircraft Production (Japs) - 2/17/2005 9:00:15 PM   
romanovich

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: SoCal
Status: offline 		Still haggling with the Jap production system... Manual is rather short on Aircraft Research (13.2.4). Apparently, if your R&D numbers add up to 100 points, your planes in development will move up one month. This is computed same as production?

Example: I have Prod Rate of 72 for my A6M3 Zeros late in May 1942, which means that the type has been in production for two or three months. So far that has led to the production of 94 aircraft of that type.

I also have jacked up R&D for the improved Ki-43-IIa Oscar to Prod Rate of 68 (-rd) for many months now, yet the Avail date (43-01) won't budge a bit. I certainly must have generated way more than 100 development points on that if computed same as production.

Doesn't the Avail column update in "Aircraft Replacement Pool"?

Experts: please help!
Post #: 1
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 2/18/2005 2:45:57 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline 		You are correctly quoting the manual; however, it appears that research does not work the way the manual describes. This has been indicated anecdotally by a number of folks, and several of us have set up modified scenarios to confirm this.

The general thinking seems to be that there is random component to whether each 100 planes actually advances the date or not ("die roll"), and that the earlier you are (relative to the introduction date) the less likely it is for the date to advance.

The avail column does not update.

(in reply to romanovich)
Post #: 2
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 2/18/2005 3:30:00 AM   
romanovich

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 12/8/2004
From: SoCal
Status: offline 		Just to confirm: if the game rolls the dice and the avail date DOES change, you would never know (until the planes start coming of the prof lines) because the column doesn't update. Right?

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 3
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 2/18/2005 4:36:47 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		you got 'er.

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Post #: 4
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 5:43:04 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Jeesh. No wonder people turn off research. Can anyone at least estimate the odds that 100 points of research will move production forward by a month?

Also, is there any way to see the total research points once has generated for a particular aircraft?

< Message edited by Grotius -- 3/1/2005 3:43:26 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 5:49:37 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

Can anyone at least estimate the odds that 100 points of research will move production forward by a month?

It supposedly varies depending on how far into the future the scheduled availability is. Far in the future=small chance, within a few months=greater chance

quote:

Also, is there any way to see the total research points once has generated for a particular aircraft?

I'd think it would be the # of a/c available in the pool for that particular model. But you never know, do you?

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 3/1/2005 10:49:52 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 3/1/2005 6:47:08 PM   
PeteG662


Posts: 1263
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline 		Wasn't there discussion about the break point for advancing seeming to be about 12-14 months out where your chances significantly improved?

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Post #: 7
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 3/2/2005 1:18:18 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Man. Any chance 1.5 will demystify the R&D process a bit? Perhaps give us some info on whether we have in fact accelerated arrival of the aircraft?

(in reply to PeteG662)
Post #: 8
1.5 Aircraft upgrades - 3/3/2005 10:57:36 AM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		Didn't find any better thread and didn't want to start a new one:
Regarding 1.5 upgrades, will they be strictly bound to branch and type, e.g. Army Fighters, or is there some flexibility? In particular, is it possible to switch Fighters to Fighter-Bombers or Night-Fighters? I am thinking about some more Nicks (Night-Fighter) as Interceptors vs. unescorted bombers, replacing some Nates/Oscar groups as they have the best guns and durability of their time.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 9
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 3/3/2005 11:11:56 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		I've done tons of "research" and never seen any "points in the pool" to reflect my research ... I guess I've just got my figures crossed that the " computer" is really tracking them ... and if it isn't then i'll get PISSED !!!

Also the 1.5 changes will certainly change everything ... currently we play the "game within the game" to optimize things like OscarII arrival ... this will be mostly meaningless once we can turn Nates into Tojo OR Tony OR Oscar II ... as now .. ensuring that you have sufficient Nate+OscarII production to rapidly switch the large Nate force over to OscarII is a key planning activity ... won't be such after 1.5 ...

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 10
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 4/10/2005 7:13:06 AM   
acmejeff


Posts: 53
Joined: 3/25/2005
Status: offline 		I am still doing my first turn as the Japanese in a stock Scen 15 PBEM game. To prepare, I read Oznoyng's Zen and the Art of Japanese Aircraft Production on Mathubert.free site. He mentions not spending any RD on Self Starter aircraft types like the P1Y Frances as no other aircraft upgrade to it. So, even if you manage to get it early there will be no airgroups to put the planes into anyway. Is this still true with 1.4? And if true would the factories produce aircraft that have no possible place to go in the Japanese OOB? If they would, it still might be worth doing so you could have a couple months of production ready to fill out the airgroups as they appear as reinforcements.

What about aircraft that are not Self Starters, is it worthwhile to RD them if for no other reason than to have your factories at max production the moment the type becomes available?

This is my first attempt at WITP so if any of you with more experience could set me straight that would be greatly appreciated.

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 11
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 4/10/2005 10:41:51 AM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline 		R&D is a futile exercise. Don't even set R&D types to expand until 3 or 4 months prior to their availability so that they are repaired and ready to go when they get activated. I think it's broken ... I've never seen any types move up a month.

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Post #: 12
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 4/10/2005 11:08:51 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

Also the 1.5 changes will certainly change everything ... currently we play the "game within the game" to optimize things like OscarII arrival ... this will be mostly meaningless once we can turn Nates into Tojo OR Tony OR Oscar II ... as now .. ensuring that you have sufficient Nate+OscarII production to rapidly switch the large Nate force over to OscarII is a key planning activity ... won't be such after 1.5 ...


The way I read it is that you will be able to select only those aircraft to upgrade to IF they are currently being produced. But the good thing is that you can now optimize your production to produce the best aircraft currently available without worrying about which squadrons can use it.

For example, the Japanese have several Claude squadrons that upgrade to the A6M3c in 1943. The way the game is right now, you have to leave them as Claudes until the upgrade aircraft is available even if you have tons of A6M2s in the pool. With 1.5, you should be able to upgrade the Claudes to the A6M2 while waiting for the A6M3c to become available.

As I see it, 1.5 means you don't have to accelerate R&D if you don't want to. You will be able to upgrade to an interim aircraft. I think that IJN planes can only be ugraded to IJN planes, the same for the IJA so no upgrades from Nates to Zeros or Claudes to Oscars.

Chez

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Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
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ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 13
RE: Aircraft Production (Japs) - 4/10/2005 3:29:49 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		Im in a game in dec 42 playing japs and i did cheat a bit by modifying the a/c 'damaged factory status' of the oscar2 .. i.e i repaired it all c.100/month production .. the availa bility date stayed put till june 42 and it advanced to 12/42 of the a/c availability list ( so it does change , at least in my game 1.4 )

as time progressed .. aug 42 brought it forward again to 11/42 , cant remember if this happened on the 1st or 2nd of each month , i think the second . so come oct 1st i was very suprised to see some oscar2's in the pools .. so looked at a./c availability and lo and behold 10/42 arrival date ! how or why i got the 'rolls' i have no clue BUT it did work .. also showed up as available on the correct dates too. However i think that the time to avaialability was all important . Oscar2 'rushed development' started 7 months before availability and then got faster. maybe there is a cut-off point where research does no good if its too far ahead. I didnt change /track any other a/c but i 'think' judys advanced one month and also the torp bomber (forget the name) as i had big pools of vals and kates and switched production over mid game to the next generation.

hope this helps , although i doudt it

as already stated with 1.5 all bets are off with research .. the japs'll be pumping tonys and tojos out from aug 42 , no need for oscar2 research .. although they have a lovely range and can allow your tired a6m's a much needed rest.

as allies im looking forward to scarapping wirracoffins and using the hurricane or p40 instead ( if i have enough ) .. OK i will lose out on some a/c types and as allied i cant change over my industrial base this will inevitably lead to much whining about wasted capacity etc. but i dont care .. once im in 43 thoses tony and tojos are going to look old no matter what

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sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 14
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