RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation)

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RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/22/2005 4:22:41 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Also, don't forget that the RAF used precision munitions anyway - Tallboys and Grand Slams!

Steve.

What do you mean "precision munition"?

As far as I know those were just ordinary iron bombs (but _MUCH_ bigger than standard ones) and they were droped from high altitude by expert crews to achieve max penetration...

Leo "Apollo11"

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(in reply to steveh11Matrix)

Post #: 31

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/22/2005 6:53:59 PM

rhohltjr

Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

But, sadly, just about impossible to model in WitP...

Why just about impossible to model?

If Witp has the Okha why would a simulated radio controlled air dropped bomb be impossible. Less percentage of a hit than the human guided Okha? So what.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
...

strange enough that Allies didn't try to emulate it into primitive guided bombs of their own (the first mention of combat usage of US guided bombs, as far as I know, are against some North Vietnamese bridge in 1960's - which is 20+ years later)...

Please check this out

http://biomicro.sdstate.edu/pederses/asmbat.html

Attachment (1)

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TF 85 troops securing a beachhead at Kota Bharu, 51,75
whew! I still feel better.

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)

Post #: 32

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/23/2005 1:33:02 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Also, don't forget that the RAF used precision munitions anyway - Tallboys and Grand Slams!

Steve.

What do you mean "precision munition"?

As far as I know those were just ordinary iron bombs (but _MUCH_ bigger than standard ones) and they were droped from high altitude by expert crews to achieve max penetration...

Leo "Apollo11"

Modern laser guided precision bombs are straight iron bombs with the 'added value' of guidance packages essentially strapped on... I guess that in the case of 617 and 9 Squadrons the 'added value' would be the aircrew skill.

More seriously, I agree that you have correctly characterised them - but the accuracy achieved was remarkable.

Steve.

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"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 33

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/23/2005 1:34:04 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

But, sadly, just about impossible to model in WitP...

Why just about impossible to model? If Witp has the Okha why would a simulated radio controlled air dropped bomb be impossible. Less percentage of a hit than the human guided Okha? So what.

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to rhohltjr)

Post #: 34

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/23/2005 5:50:32 PM

rhohltjr

Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

Is there a Witp PGM model? If so, why so much trouble with it? Is there a model for skip bombing which seems to work? Isn't it really just a play on the weapon accuracy derived from the weapon/device part of the database??? Hmmm.

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)

Post #: 35

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/23/2005 6:03:54 PM

steveh11Matrix

Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

So far as I'm aware the WitP PGM model doesn't work.
Steve.

Is there a Witp PGM model? If so, why so much trouble with it? Is there a model for skip bombing which seems to work? Isn't it really just a play on the weapon accuracy derived from the weapon/device part of the database??? Hmmm.

There is in the database...

Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to rhohltjr)

Post #: 36

Get out! - 2/23/2005 6:08:20 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

Somebody in Britain wanted to develop a pigeon-guided bomb. He trained pigeons to peck pictures of german warships behind a glass screen, and reckoned that with a pigeon in front looking through a window its pecks could be turned into control movements for a flying bomb.

For some reason, the authorities didn't take him seriously...

those bombs were actually built and worked better than the early radar guided ones..

Early field trials

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 37

RE: Get out! - 2/23/2005 9:30:49 PM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 38

RE: Get out! - 2/23/2005 9:33:25 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

There was a movie a few years ago that had the disclaimer "Only a few animals were injured in filming this movie".

EDIT: Okay, okay, they did it for laughs. Later on in the credits, they said "We were only joking. No animals were harmed, etc."

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 2/23/2005 4:39:41 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Get out! - 2/24/2005 5:37:06 AM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Cap, you should be sure to add the following disclaimer:

"No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home."

Very well. No pigeons were harmed in the production of this comic. Maneuvers were performed by a professional pilot on a closed course. Do not try this at home.

PS..they taste like chicken

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Post #: 40

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/24/2005 7:13:45 AM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhohltjr

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

But, sadly, just about impossible to model in WitP...

Why just about impossible to model? If Witp has the Okha why would a simulated radio controlled air dropped bomb be impossible. Less percentage of a hit than the human guided Okha? So what.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
...

strange enough that Allies didn't try to emulate it into primitive guided bombs of their own (the first mention of combat usage of US guided bombs, as far as I know, are against some North Vietnamese bridge in 1960's - which is 20+ years later)...

Please check this out

http://biomicro.sdstate.edu/pederses/asmbat.html

Also check this out, I think the AZON preceeded the BAT.

http://www.455th.ukpc.net/tomfeise/455th/458azon.htm

Also somewhere I have a reference that refers to AZON being highly successful at bridge bustin in Burma. Unfortunately I can't recall the reference

< Message edited by pompack -- 2/23/2005 11:16:32 PM >

(in reply to rhohltjr)

Post #: 41

RE: Name This...(315 Special Edation) - 2/24/2005 9:25:15 AM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: String

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

Somebody in Britain wanted to develop a pigeon-guided bomb. He trained pigeons to peck pictures of german warships behind a glass screen, and reckoned that with a pigeon in front looking through a window its pecks could be turned into control movements for a flying bomb.

For some reason, the authorities didn't take him seriously...

those bombs were actually built and worked better than the early radar guided ones..

I could actually see that working, but first you would have to acquire a ship profile in the targeting screen for the pigeon to activate and start pecking on the target / control screen. Seems like that would require a dive bomber to release the "pigeon bomb" with the target already in the sights.

What an absolutely fascinating thread! You guys continue to amaze me with your knowledge!

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Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to String)

Post #: 42

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