Could be the George Fock of Germany, but could also be sister ships which include: MIRCEA of Romania, SAGRES II of Portugal, Eagle of United States, (formerly HORST WESSEL) of Germany, and TOVARICH of Russia.)
Here is Eagle which was taken as a prize from Germany and commissioned into Coast Guard in 1946.
She was Finnish registry at the start of WWII and sailed into Wellington NZ in July 41 with a load of Guano (which was mined in Chile and used for fertalizer and explosives). New Zealand took her over but left the Finns on board and used her as a cargo carrying training ship. She made 8 trips to North America and one to OZ during the war. At one point she was caught by the Japanese sub A12 Commander Kundo in charge. The crew prepared to abandon ship but Kundo, who was a veteran of Japans sail training program chose not to fire torpedos. We will never know if he gave in to sentiment or if he was just saving torpedos for something better than the most archaic vessel in the Pacific since he did not return from his last cruise.
I am sorry to say that Pamir went down in the North Atlantic in 1957. She was loaded with German sail training cadets and carrying a cargo of loose grain (when in professional service she had carried bagged grain) which shifted in a storm and she filled and sank with the loss of 80 of her 86 crew.
If that looks like the Australian Flag then my mother looks like Sophia Loren
[Do NOT ask if his mother is hot... Do NOT ask if his mother is hot...]
I was referring to the one on the back of the mystery ship, not the one in my post. It almost looks like it has some stars in the lower part (a la Southern Cross)...
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If that is Kiel..perhaps the ship is there as a sign of respect for some significant political event in Germany. Moving the Capital to Berlin maybe? Reunification? Retirement of Hans Beckenbauer?
BTW...the lateen sail (I may have the terminology wrong) on the stern of the USCG vessel is different from the sister ship. Perhaps that could help.
If that is Kiel..perhaps the ship is there as a sign of respect for some significant political event in Germany. Moving the Capital to Berlin maybe? Reunification? Retirement of Hans Beckenbauer?
BTW...the lateen sail (I may have the terminology wrong) on the stern of the USCG vessel is different from the sister ship. Perhaps that could help.
Hard to tell with the angle, and also ships get rigged differently in different winds (i.e. - some sails taken in, others let out, etc). It does look a tad different, though. It looks like 3 sails on it in Eagle but only 2 in our mystery ship.
< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 2/21/2005 1:32:31 AM >
OT: But has anyone here read "Island in the Sea of Time" in which Eagle and the island of Nantucket get thrown back to the Bronze Age? I found it an enjoyable romp.
I return you to your normal programming... :)
Steve.
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I am sorry to say that Pamir went down in the North Atlantic in 1957. She was loaded with German sail training cadets and carrying a cargo of loose grain (when in professional service she had carried bagged grain) which shifted in a storm and she filled and sank with the loss of 80 of her 86 crew.
There were a whole bunch of sailing ships that used to haul grain up until the late 30's , including a 'grain race' between the ships sailing between Australia and England. This was apparently one of the last economic niches for the great sailing ships. Maybe this is one of those. There is one ship Moshulu that is on the waterside in Philadelphia that used to do this - now a restaurant. I'll see if i can find a pic.
< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 2/21/2005 10:58:09 AM >
THats the uboat memorial at Kiel Germany. I sailed there on THe SS Sorlandet in 1980. Is that a polish eagle maybe the Dar Pormoza?
Looked it up, and here's what i found: "Laboe Laboe, on the North Eastern corner of the Kieler Fiorde, has everything the Germans want from a seaside resort, according to the local blurb. Its a pretty, popular destination. It has long sandy beaches, the typical seaside stalls and resturants and a small group of shops.
The thing that sets it apart is the huge U-Boat memorial, built on a bluff at the north end of the town. The thing is a huge 15 storey high empty box, and itis possible to climb (there are lifts) to an observation platform at the top. The slightly disconcerting thing is that it was actually built in 1929, not 1949. A set of steps wend themselves down the inside corner of the box - the vertigo inducing feeling unfortunately doesn't come out on camera.The tower is linked to a historical museum by a rather spooky underground hall and passage."
If that is Kiel..perhaps the ship is there as a sign of respect for some significant political event in Germany. Moving the Capital to Berlin maybe? Reunification? Retirement of Hans Beckenbauer?
BTW...the lateen sail (I may have the terminology wrong) on the stern of the USCG vessel is different from the sister ship. Perhaps that could help.
Here is a ship that sort of fits, that might visit Kiel (and Laboe): Grossherzog Friedrich August, which, if my very rusty French serves, seems to be a Norwegian training ship. Here she is:
EDIT: I don't see the davits on the side of the ship, but could be a different modification?
ANOTHER EDIT: She is now known as Staatsrahd Lehmkuhl after being renamed some time ago. She had also been known as the Westwärts during WW2.
The Portuguese have a training ship that looks like Eagle to my eye. I guess she could also fit the bill, except again her aft fore-and-aft rigged mast seems to have 3 sails, and in this photo she is carrying highly decorative and distictintive sails:
EDIT: She should look alike - they are sister ships!
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If the Uboat memorial was built in 1929 and the mystery pic is in black and white, it may well be pre-wwII. Maybe it was visiting for the Olympics in '36?
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It is indeed Gorch Fock (original one) or one of her sisters. Here's another shot from the period: http://www.silentwall.com/Equipment41.html Rigging, stern and flag matches the photo.
Greetz, Riku
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It is indeed Gorch Fock (original one) or one of her sisters. Here's another shot from the period: http://www.silentwall.com/Equipment41.html Rigging, stern and flag matches the photo.
Greetz, Riku
I agree the rigging and stern are the same. Unsure about the flag - here's the shot:
EDIT - I dunno, but the flag in our mystery photo doesn't look to have a white center third. Could be perspective, maybe.
It is indeed Gorch Fock (original one) or one of her sisters. Here's another shot from the period: http://www.silentwall.com/Equipment41.html Rigging, stern and flag matches the photo.
Greetz, Riku
I suppose then that this could represent the Gorch Fock after she was raised by the Russians and called renamed it as Tovarish (Comrade). Doesn't look like a Russian or Soviet flag though.
A couple years ago the USCG Training Ship Eagle paid a port call to Portland, my boss was a bit put off, but sorta understood Why I spent the afternoon walking her decks, Beautiful Ship and one of Only Two WW2 German Ships I have been on.
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