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The Backstabs - 3/11/2005 8:46:03 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		Backstabbing, this seems to happen to us all. What’s the best, worst backstab you ever had done, or did to another? Or the one that upset you the most?

For me the one time I got pissed the most was when I had been giving the Spanish player a lot of money each round, and spent the whole game watching his back so France would not be tempted to get any ideas on that front. I did good, everyone knows I try to always help my allies as much as possible.

Well, I had been collecting a LOT of cash, understandably as I’m Britain and was quite trade-happy. Then just to prove more of my faith (or am I too trusting?), I gave three to four hundred bucks to the Spanish in one chunk in thanks for doing a little favour he was supposed to do.

Well, imagine my surprise when right after that he breaks off with me and is buddy-buddy with another player who thought they’d both have a ball pouncing on me. While I did get beat up a bit, my nation was at least secured. Though it seems as though France was also in on the deal but backed out at the last minute, phew, (but I could never prove it!).

The second half of the game I basically left everyone else alone but came after Spain pissed off as hell. Surprisingly, France just stood there and laughed from a safe distance, despite he could have knocked us both off.

After the conditional surrender of Spain quite sometime later, I still got back at him. Not only did I refuse to even trade with him, but I even gave extra cash to everyone else on the damn board. Everyone that is, EXCEPT for him. That poor guy didn’t have a pot to cry in.

That being said, so what. Sure I lost a bunch of factors, a few PPs, and got betrayed. I’ve been backstabbed a lot harder, but I don’t know. I somewhat enjoyed the long and slow revenge this way. Ahh yes, I also laughed my ass off when later France went down there to collect all the pieces I left behind.

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…
Post #: 1
RE: The Backstabs - 3/12/2005 1:06:08 AM   
Hoche


Posts: 491
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline 		I think backstabs are just plain stupid. All they do is insure you will have an enemy. Also potential allies are less likely to join your cause if you have a bad reputation. When I was an EiA noob I thought backstabs were the way to go. After getting kicked around for being stupid I learned my lesson. You don't have to be totaly honest with everyone in EiA but you don't have to lie either.

The worst backstab I have experience took place in my last pbem game. I was playing Austria. France went after Russia becaue he was doing well in vps. Russia was getting is @ss kicked and couldn't hold out much longer. So when my enforced peace with France ended Turkey and I declared war on France. We forced France to an unconditional surrender. But in the surrender the Russian screwed me over. France surrendered to Ru, Tu and Pr but not me Au. Since Russia was at war with France first he got the first peace pick. That SOB choose to remove garrisons and not half corps which we had all agreed to do earlier. After I saved his @ss that SOB screwd me hard because I was now forced to surrender to France. To make things worse he did it with the intention of joining France in the war against me to crush me.

Well I made a deal with France that if his peace wasn't too harsh I would get my revenge on Russia. The Russian army was still weak from the beating it had taken from France. So after I surrendered to France Pr and I declared war on Russia and we forced him to an unconditional surrender.

_____________________________

It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
-Edmund Burke

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 2
RE: The Backstabs - 3/12/2005 1:58:31 PM   
hlj

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		The worst backstab I have ever done is as Prussia giving Brittish money to build French ships. But in my defence it was my first game ever.

The worst backstab I have ever seen is a series of backstabs done by GB, (1st) After sinking most of the french fleet because I was to dumb to defend it, he breaks an agreement with me France. He wants to show the allies that he cant send them any money because he is active in the war against me with his own troops. I as France dont mind the brittish coffer being closed so I agree to him landing 2 corps with 5 inf in each. He lands 2 full corps.(not a major stab i know)
I then pay of Prussia to exit the war and with prussia out convinces Russia and spain that GB is the real enemy. After we have invaded England and forced a surrender out of GB he lay low tending to his wounds.
The alliance then quickly forms aginst me again but that was what I expected.
When GB can attack me again he lands wellington under 6 corps and looses the lot in only two battles. And when I have forced Austria spain and Prussia to a conditional. Austria and Russia and spain decide that they want to war turkey.
(2nd) GB at this point whines to me telling me that he need wellington back to attack the north african minors that spain has. I feeling sorry for him, gives wellington back after GB have prommised not to land him in any french controlled area and not to substract VP from me unless I mobilise my army against him...... So naturaly he does both at first comming chance, He tries to sink my fleet and continues to substract VP from me.

When Austria Spain and Russia can se that they have spendt far to long in Turkey they try to strike a deal getting the turk to surrender. He only wants to surrender if GB and France declares war on him first that way ensuring him that GB wont take his african minors and france wont attack him forcing him to a double surrender. Both I and GB accept and neither GB nor France gains anything in the surrender as both are allied to Turkey before they declare war. In the agreement it is stated that neither france nor GB should take any peace terms. It is agreed that Russia should get Royal marriage, but when russia dont take it with his first choice England proclaimes his intent to take it, so I naturaly take it to keep it out of the hands of the country who just broke a deal with me and tried to sink my fleet.
(3rd)GB responds by taking the 3 remaining provinces of the ottoman empire, and desolves it.
Turkey along with Spain convinces me that it is time to invade GB again, and thus he is forced to surrender a seccond time ^_^

(in reply to Hoche)
Post #: 3
RE: The Backstabs - 3/14/2005 10:00:28 AM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Im not sure if you can call this a back stab or not. I was playing Turkey and was at war with every major power except Prussia. Every time my peace treaties ran out with Austria and Russia, I was attacked by the both of them. The game got better in the later stages of the war when I proved to be the Trust worthy ally the Brittish could get ( only ally I could find!!) I found many nice ways to hurt my main enemys Russia and Austria when they were engaged on other fronts. Russia never liked being invaded in her rear when I opened up the port to her enmies. Our Brittish allies were every pleased with my DOW on France that saved the bulk of her army but doomed mine. This was against my will but it set our allience in concrete. My losses were well rewarded in the long run.

(in reply to hlj)
Post #: 4
RE: The Backstabs - 3/15/2005 12:00:38 AM   
ancient doctor

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		The worst i have done was to allow France go happy trigger agaisnt Russia(i am Austria)and put-trace supply throught line of depots passing form my territory and when Napie is almost done with them i declare war and take out his supply and see how the grand armee dies of hunger.
Road to Paris open and game over.

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 5
RE: The Backstabs - 3/15/2005 12:36:58 AM   
eg0master

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		I was playing France for the first time and was beating austria up while prussia was taking a few minors and letting russia march and trace supply through prussia. As soon as russia left prussia territory, I made peace with prussia (conditional surrender).
Russia fearing a DoW from prussia since the whole russian army was "on the wrong side of prussia" and hence loosing supply, russia offered me a conditional surender even before the first battle and started to race back to russia to defend it against prussia.
So technically there was no backstabbing but the fear of backstabbing left austria alone at war with france (not counting brittain of course) and taking heavy bashing.

_____________________________

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not.

(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 6
RE: The Backstabs - 4/1/2005 8:31:24 PM   
Madcombinepilot


Posts: 52
Joined: 5/13/2004
From: Saskatoon, Canada
Status: offline 		'True Backstab's are few and far between in our games. Its because we play with a high quality group that never trusts the other 100%. when you always plan for the worst, it almost never happens. I have never truly 'backstabbed' someone (ie. lied to them, telling them one thing and not doing it), but I do EXACTLY what I say I will. In our current game (I am GB), the alliance against France was on, but Russia was absolutley monstrous (Through great diplomacy, and timley surrender picks, she owned the boot, Barvaria, Hanover, Lombardy, Piemont, and 3 or 4 of the north african territories, as well as Sweden). Russia was laying in 50+ infantry (some minor) a quarter. While engineering Russia, Austria and Turkey to fight France, (Prussia and Spain were at enforced peace), and allied with everyone except France, I somehow was talked into (by Russia) to keep Turkey off the Russia with a DOW while I Guaranteed Turkey a victory over France.... In the end, the 'backstab' was an alliance breaking DOW with Turkey (timed to catch her fleet as sea of course), while invading France (out of range of Napoleon), a Russian, Austrian, Turkish, English victory over France (Yup, the big unconditional as France was absolutly hammered) and an English conditional to Turkey.. overall, I was -10 pp for DOW and Surrenders, and +11PP for victories (one land, one sea) and an unconditional.... Then the tricky part came in when I went to war against Russia (with my Prussian Allies) to fufill the other half of my agreements with Austria and Turkey......

the only reason I engineered any of this was to have an excuse to grab Sweden ;)

(in reply to eg0master)
Post #: 7
RE: The Backstabs - 4/1/2005 10:49:48 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline
quote:

giving Brittish money to build French ships


hahahahahahahaha classic!

(in reply to Madcombinepilot)
Post #: 8
RE: The Backstabs - 4/15/2005 11:28:30 PM   
Tjalfe

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 3/20/2005
Status: offline 		Hi there

In a game playing as Spain i did the French an enormous favour. Declaring war on him to prevent France from losing it´s status as dominant power, after he had taken a beating from a Prussia, Austria and Russian coalition.

We cut a deal where i saved him, in return for an unconditional and 3 years of peace, and nothing else, once he got back up on his feet. Off course i needed the French strong in my plot to invade Britain but thats beside the point...

Instead the bastard allied with the British and invaded me. Tough game for me. That was the worst backstab ever seen in the games i have participated in.

In the same game 3-4 years later i wanted my revenge against the French. Together with Austria i spanked Nappy big time. I even planned the entire campaign for the Austrian player.

The funniest part was the stunned expression on the face of the French player when the Astrian light infantry jumped from a spanish fleet, and ran across France ending up in Lille capturing several provincial capitals along the way. This naturally coincided with an economic phase to strangle the French.

All along i was worried that heavy Austrian losses would cause him to surrender to the French so i pushed hard for guarantees that he would hang in there. Nappy and Charles did slug it out several times with large losses on both sides. At that point i started to get nervous. Would it be to much for the austrians? I cheered him on and offered my advice, and was again assurred that Austria would not surrender to the French.

Then it happened:

The French surrendered conditionally to Austria - i was left hanging dry again. I cursed my self beeing so ignorant at that time. I had to surrender to the French again.

But to this day im not sure if it was elegant austrian play or if i did say "no seperate peace" some times during the negotiations. Im sure that i started out that way, but my last comments on peace was urging Austria not to surrender... so it was not a complete backstab or at most a skillfull one.

But all in all the game turned out well for me. It was the only 2 wars i lost in the entire game up till the finish in mid 1814. I even ended up invading Britain again and had the Portugese, 2 x Sicilies, Swedish and Danish navies and 210 ships to my name at the end...

Not bad and very fun

Tjalfe

< Message edited by Tjalfe -- 4/15/2005 11:29:54 PM >

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 9
RE: The Backstabs - 4/16/2005 5:31:55 AM   
1LTRambo


Posts: 313
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline 		Welcome Tjalfe. That game sounded like it was a lot of fun.

(in reply to Tjalfe)
Post #: 10
RE: The Backstabs - 4/16/2005 3:49:50 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		The worst Backstab I ever saw in Empire in Arms was done to me in a 7 player game where I was France (must have been 1984 or 1985, so my memory is a bit fuzy). The entire map was against me in a massive coalition campaign except Austria who had allied with me when I saved his arse from a combined Turkish/Russian assault the year before. The player had to leave early on Sunday and we had all agreed Saturday night that he could hand over control of his country to whomever he wished and he and I had agreed that he would hand over control to me Sunday morning (our alliance was a strong one).

Sunday morning rolls around and after a few hours play he has to leave. As he walks to his car another player runs outside and offers to trade him a Fantasy Baseball player he really wanted so at the last second he changed his mind and handed control over to the co-Fantasy league player. Needless to say I was more than a tad miffed and walked out after some heated discussions.

I have no problem with game-related issues/events affecting the diplomacy that occurs, but this kind of underhanded bribery was outside the bounds of fair play in my book, but the other players refused to prevent the bribe (we had been easily repulsing their campaigns).

Up to that point game-related diplomacy had lead to a strong alliance between Austria and France that had kept the game relatively balanced in the face of a 5 country coalition. Had the coalition players played a stronger game, they probably could have won the war, but due to some mistakes, they had gotten the short end of the stick so reverted to this kind of desperate cheat. Yes I viewed it as cheating, anyone disagree?

Jim


_____________________________


(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 11
RE: The Backstabs-here we go again - 5/4/2005 9:34:31 PM   
Tjalfe

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 3/20/2005
Status: offline 		Hi folks

I just started playing a campaign game as France when the Russian and Spanish player approached me, prior to setup, and offered me a solution to my war with Britain.

Naturally i accepted, and i planned a set-up of the french navy together with the spanish and russian in the london blockade box (Spain and Russia declared preexisting war as well as the Prussian and Austrian against me). We had agreed only to accept unconditional surrenders with our overall war aim to be british naval reductions when peace breaks out.

What happened next was the peace step of January 1805 and the British sued us all for peace. The stupid and trecherous spanish and russian then offered a conditional peace.

Damn them. Now i had 62 ships floating like lame ducks in the London blockade box just waiting for Nelson to "Trafalgarize" them. I got lucky with my evasion roll and hurried back to Antwerp.

I decided to surrender conditionally to the Prussians and Austrians. Guess where´s Nappy is headed.

Right the first time!

Le Grande Armée is paying a visit to sunny "soon smoking" Spain. He will probably just surrender immediately but i hope he will have learned his lesson. If not, it will be fun.

Greetings from Copenhagen

Tjalfe

< Message edited by Tjalfe -- 5/4/2005 9:35:38 PM >

(in reply to Hoche)
Post #: 12
RE: The Backstabs-here we go again - 5/5/2005 2:09:42 AM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline 		Nice moves...but even that france is paying the broken dishes from spanish and russian acts, dont worry...they will pay more dishes than you for sure...and his conditional will not be too tasty in a couple of years, I personally think they screw it up for 3 PP and mess up with nappy too soon.

After finishing with spain i will ask your german neighbours to take the road to moscow...it will be fun, while you take care of the brits with only 4 or 5 corps at home.

Regards and be patient...is one of the keys in this game if you are not Welly or Nappy.

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Tjalfe)
Post #: 13
RE: The Backstabs-here we go again - 5/5/2005 3:23:47 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		Question is, where they planing to BS you even during the stage of set-up?



_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to ardilla)
Post #: 14
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