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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744

 
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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 2:54:04 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Thanks guys. I really appreciate this school-like discussion

With 1.4 we all know that it's a tough job for the japs to conquer China. I'll try to do something different from our last game, where i engaged a sequence of encirlement battles around Changsha. This time i'll try to send a decoy force to Changsha, with the only pourpouse to force him to mass his forces in the south . The same attempt will be done at Yenen, where another decoy Army will fake-siege the city. At the same time all my remanant forces will be deployed in the middle of China, ready for a deep push forward Ichang and then Chungking ( using Andrew Map Mode i hope). If i manage to get this deep penetration in the heart of the Chinese Empire , his forces will be cut in 2 ( north and south) and this should unbalance his whole defence.




I've tried similar strategy in China - conquering the Ichang, then advancing north to cut Yenen and put Ch. in the danger. But my opponent counters this strategy with pulling off some troops from the Ch. and Y. and sends them to the crossroad hex between those two cities. I was unable to win "time race" because he uses his bombers and attacks my advancing LCU units (toward crossroads).
So it seems this strategy can be rebuff with air attacks. I can't said it could be done, you have to ensure air support (bring zero daitais and support units) to the china and provide CAP over your LCU's.

IMO, you should build up AF Ichang fastest as possible, because you have only one bigger AF suitable for this offensive (Wuhan). Also, nice idea would be to transfer some base forces and Air HQ to China...






Hi mate,


Yes, it's true: i need air superiority for this operation. I can say that my opponent is really very cautious in committing his air forces early in the game. He usually follows "bunker tactic". But i know how deadly can be the AVG if used in China. The final objective , however, is to force him to move back his units from Whucow-Changsha-Kweilling ( sp?) and Sian-Yenen. To do this i need to threaten his center ( Chungking) . It will all depends on how he will react to my first fake-Sieges at yenen and Changsha...
I'm planning to bring 1 Zero daitai in China and some 3 Oscars Sentai ( after 1.5 will be possible to convert early those nates...)


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Post #: 31
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 2:55:01 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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I think taking Ichang is a good move as the Chinese forces should then send reinforcements to this crossroad while Japanese troops can remain on the center and may attack both there or at Changsha with the same forces.

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Post #: 32
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 2:59:21 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
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From: italy
Status: offline 		About Palembang..... i'm still quite unsure what is needed to capture a base with very few destruction to the resources present. Do i need a 100% preparation points, or more engeneers or a great Air bombing campaign..??


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Post #: 33
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 3:04:19 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		sure, it is good move (capturing Ichang). As you stated this pulls pressure on the Ch.-Y. line.

to the General: hmph, i'm afraid that one daitai of zeros wont be enough (if your opponent transfer whole AVG in China). Oscars are hopeless, they are just cannon fodder for AVG.

If your opponent play Sir Robin, you will have opportunity to transfer more Z-daitais to the China...

just my liras


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Post #: 34
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 3:34:53 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

Do i need a 100% preparation points, or more engeneers or a great Air bombing campaign..??

All of the above. Everything you add to this mix, makes success more likely. Bring some artillery and armor as well. Bombard with your LCUs for a few turns after you land before you assault. This will mean that you need to bring plenty of supply as well. Do a BB bombardment or two to disable support squads, thus reducing the ability of the combat and engineer squads to recover from disablement and disruption. The goal is to maximize disablements among his engineer units before you take the base, and to make the assault as overwhelming as possible when you finally do launch it. Definitely use a shock attack. But that is the final stroke, the key is in thoroughly preparing the objective beforehand.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 3:41:18 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Status: offline 		Thanks. So i will have to plan very carefully the conquest of Palembang ,Tarakan,Kendari etc.

good

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 3:53:11 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		Actually the best thing you can do is to prevent the Allied player from bringing in any additional engineer units. Easier said than done however. Bettys/Nells and Zeroes at Kuching can isolate Palembang, if you can get the Allied air at Singapore shut down. Could get expensive though if he decided to make a serious reinforcement effort.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 3:56:09 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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From: italy
Status: offline 		Well, with the brand new strategy, created with the huge help of AmiralLaurent, i think i'm not that hurry about resources centers. In my last match i got all of them very soon, but Palembang was captured with only 90 out of 900 oilplants...so first i will isolate the area of DEI , and only in a second moment, after a strong preparation, i will land there and get that oil( let's say March 42...)

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Post #: 38
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 4:11:55 PM   
Tom Hunter


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Status: offline 		I have run a successful defense of China and I did the opposite of Sir Robin. I often sought battle though I tried to make sure it was on my terms. This was not always possible but things have gone my way often enough to make me happy with the over all result.

If your opponent uses Sir Robin tactics in China I think you can beat him. China is dangerous if it tries to throw the Japanese off balance which means offensive moves.

Basically the Chinese can win if they suprise the Japanese in enough places to keep the Japanese from exicuting a carefully prepared plan. If they do this a bloody stalemate is the result. But its not a static world war I stalemate, its a constantly moving stalemate.

Its very important for the Chinese to make the main rail line kind of useless for the Japanese. Sure the Japanese can clear it with a big army, but if a big army is clearing it then its not taking any important Chinese bases, its taking train rides.

If your opponent does not realize this then you should take advantage and try to score a lot of points in China. Basically its up to the Chinese to take away Japans mobility, if he leaves you with the use of the rail line then concentrate superior force, smash up his armies and take his cities.

Your opponents fabian tactics may help his comback in the Pacific but they will certainly hurt him in China and you should take advantage of that help you in your goal of winning the game. Don't listen to people who say this is gamey, if your a good player you should always take advantage of your opponents mistakes even if he makes them in an area that was historically quiet like China in 42-43.

Now I have a question for the group. I have recently wiped out about 60,000 Japanese troops in the Kwieyang battles. Does this give me a real advantage in China now? How many troops did the Japanese start with? Since July the Japanese army losses have goen up 626 points and the only major land combat is in China.

So do you Japanese veterans think that I can push harder as China and maybe win something back or get the Japanese to pull troops back from the Pacific into China? Or is it still a stalemate with the Japanese down 60,000 men?

In the larger picture the Chinese army is as strong as its ever been. A lot of my units have 70 or 80 experience and I even found one with 93. So I think Japan may be significantly weaker and China significantly stronger than they were in December 41 but it would be very helpful to hear from people who have knowledge of the Japanese army.

< Message edited by Tom Hunter -- 4/8/2005 4:15:32 PM >

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Post #: 39
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 4:29:05 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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Ouch... only 90 oil in Palembang. Gen, you were very right to surrender in your last game. Throw everything you can to take Palembang in good shape and you will then not care at all about the tiny oil and ressources in Burma.

My last Palembang operation was the following:

_ landing of 38th Div (preparing for Palembang since the fall of HK) and a Bde (preparing for somewhere else) roughly the day Singapore fall. Supported by 3 surface TF (one with 3 BB+2 CL, two with 4-5 CA/CL, all with 6-10 DD). I landed in Jambi (to the north) at the same time with 2 NLF, a Const Bn and a Base Force. I seized the undefended Jambi and flew two units of fighters here. Just ordering them flying CAP over Jambi is enought to intercept some raids over TF in the area and score some victories.

Then for a week, Palembang was bombarded roughly every day by a surface TF (roughly at each time I had one refueling/rearming in Singapore, one bombnarding, one sailing to the spot). To be sure no Allied warship will appear I had the super-mini KB (all CVL and CVE and Kaga) cruising from Koepang to Victoria Point at this time, sinking a convoy W of Java on the way. By the way, Force Z is now out of the game (Repulse, two CLs and 4 DD sunk).... after sinking BB Kongo and wrecking Haruna in a night battle. Revenge has taken an aerial torp off Rangoon, the Dutch Navy was seen by a submarine in Indian Ocean (propably fleeing), so naval danger was probably limited.

I had also Malaya airfields full of Ki-21/Ki-48 (6-7 Sentais) and Betties in Kuching bombing the base, while my troops were pounding it with artillery.

At the end of the week, all the ENG Rgts I had at Singapore landed in Palembang (it took two days, I used too big APs). And they were ashore, I shock attacked. At this time 38th Div had 60 prep points for Palembang. It was the only unit prepared for the target.

The plan was to send the NLFs and the Const Bn from Jambi to Palembang once the airfield was taken but I forgot to do it in time and so these troops arrive after the battle. The numerous Japanese engineers were able to repair the airfield so it is allready usable.

As soon as Palembang fell, 4 fighters units flew in and transport aircraft begin to carry aviation personnel from Malaya.

There was a 'B' plan. All units in Singapore (4 Divs) were waiting for the first land actions in Palembang to see if the place had been reinforced. There were more BFs than at start but no more troops so my reserve weren't needed and sailed/left for other places.

Having many ENG available when the city fell may do the trick. They don't need to be prepared for the place IMOO.

I now plan to keep this ENG force together and will use it successively (is this word English ?) in Soerabaja, Batavia and Balikpapan. Maybe also in Toboali (even if this place seems to be empty). That means that fewer ENG troops are available in Burma and PI but I hope it won't be a problem.

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Post #: 40
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 4:40:00 PM   
tsimmonds


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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		Herr General, this thread may be of interest to you.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/8/2005 7:32:45 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Status: offline 		Very usefull guys.Thanks!

If i know my opponent a bit, he's a Fabian in his own nature. So i can say that at 90% he's going not to reinforce Palembang. If things go as planned i think i will be able to have in DEI seas, by the end of December , the Mini-KB along with Kaga. This force shoudl be able to avoid any big real convoy going from/to the resources centers.
I'll sure use those 2 divisions, attached to the Southern area HQ that are in China at Start ( 38th and 21st i think) for the operations against the main resources centers in DEI, starting from Gen/feb. 42.
If i send 2 Eng rgt to Darwin those guys could be sent back towards Malaya area by mid gen 42, when darwin will be japanese.

Tom, for what concerns China, in ur last match my opponent got screwed there. He lost all his bases in China by august 42! He's now very scared about sorroundings and envelopes, so i will try to use this fear, making some fake-flanking attempt, in order to force him to retreat from main Industrial cities like Changsha and Yenen. Wanna use a kind of "Fleet in being" strategy.
As for those 60,000 japanese......no, things don't change much from the original statlemate i guess. During the first weeks of war i've lost around Canton something like 50,000 jap troops, but still the japs can overwhelm the chinese...so whatch out and don't go overconfident!

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/11/2005 10:16:09 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		We're still discussing house rules, waiting for 1.5 to come out.

Mc3744 has some major concerns about India and first turn PH attack.
We agreed that Karachi can be conquered only if all the other Indian bases have been taken.
He would like to have the ability of free moving at the first turn, while i firmly believe that the allies cannot move at all-If not the surprise effect of the japanese attack would be vain....

so we aren't ready yet....
hope when 1.5 will be out we'll have finished with this theoretical discussions

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/11/2005 3:04:50 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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I think the best setting possible is to allow full moves to British and Chinese forces, limited to Dutch/PI and none in the Pacific for Allied forces.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 12:50:15 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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From: italy
Status: offline 		I completely disagree here Amiral.
With the ability to move freely on the first turn the Allies avoid the suprise-rule of the first turn, which is indeed, IMHO, the conditio sine qua non for Japan to begin a War. Without the PH surprise, both in terms of ships sunk or damaged and logistically, the allies can turn the tide by mid 42, no matters what the japs do.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 1:30:39 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

I completely disagree here Amiral.
With the ability to move freely on the first turn the Allies avoid the suprise-rule of the first turn, which is indeed, IMHO, the conditio sine qua non for Japan to begin a War. Without the PH surprise, both in terms of ships sunk or damaged and logistically, the allies can turn the tide by mid 42, no matters what the japs do.


I fully agree on the PH surprise but the British were not surprised at all. Their planes were following the Japanese convoys since two days and one was even shot down the day before PH.

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 9:38:34 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Status: offline 		But in fact i won't do any souther than Kotha Baru on the first day. I won't pass the Singapore meridian, nor i won't land in Borneo. What i really think can unbalance the game is an allied player that applies the so called "Bunker Tactic" on the first day. I made some attempts in a H2H match. The allies can put in vain every efforts of the japs.
In our last match for example, mc3744 moved away all his fighters from PH,Manila,Clark and Singapore on the 7th dec. The results were that on the first day of fighting the japs caught on the ground only 48 planes in their strikes against PH, Singapore and Clark.... and those planes, especially the P-40s , were able to fight back very soon both in Burma and in South Pacific.

If the allies would be able to move freely, they would form a TF with their BBs at PH....and i won't find anything during my port attack.
I'm ok with some limitations for the Japs on the other side. We're still discussing them....

BTW, i've almost decided the strategical priorities:

1- Northern Oz
2- Rabaul and Solomons
3- Burma and eastern India ( yes, i still believe that this little hangover will be very usefull for my defensive perimeter)
4- DEI/SRA

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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 9:56:07 AM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		greetings...

i strongly belive that AmiralLaurent suggested this:

1. no giving orders at the PH (no creating TF's, setting CAP... etc)
2. Your opponent have ability to move other forces west of PH.... this could be tricky in some cases, as we know that time difference doesn't allow suprise all around Pacific, SRA.... but in reality Americans at the Clark Field were suprised (or caught off guard). Most players don't move their planes from Clark Field at turn 1, but i don't demand from my opponents this.

Possible solution for your's upcoming game: no creating TF's for allies on turn 1 at all, but then Japan is not allowed for port attack (turn 1 of course) in turn 2 - giving the opportunity allies to flee without being sunk in the port. In this way, you will achive "suprise" and your esteemed opponent have a chance to flee (or do his strategic redeploy ).


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Post #: 48
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 10:04:58 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk



Possible solution for your's upcoming game: no creating TF's for allies on turn 1 at all, but then Japan is not allowed for port attack (turn 1 of course) in turn 2 - giving the opportunity allies to flee without being sunk in the port. In this way, you will achive "suprise" and your esteemed opponent have a chance to flee (or do his strategic redeploy ).




Ok, i did not explain myself enough. That's exactly what we 've agreed. I won't port attack on the second turn with KB....i never do that. The loss of 90 crack pilots in a 2 days PH trip doesn't worth a single more BB sunk IMHO.
He will be able to move only the TFs that are already formed. I won't exploit this rule off course. My first turn will be very close to the default one.

.......how many assault points can the brits have in the area around Chandupur in mid March 42? 1500 sounds close to reality? how many divisions would i need to cut Burma from India taking Dacca,Diamond, Calcutta and Chandupur? .... The max i think i will be able to deploy is 5 or 6 divisions....will this be enough if i attack very early as soon as Singa falls?


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RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 10:34:27 AM   
kaiser73


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


If the allies would be able to move freely, they would form a TF with their BBs at PH....and i won't find anything during my port attack.
I'm ok with some limitations for the Japs on the other side. We're still discussing them....

BTW, i've almost decided the strategical priorities:

1- Northern Oz
2- Rabaul and Solomons
3- Burma and eastern India ( yes, i still believe that this little hangover will be very usefull for my defensive perimeter)
4- DEI/SRA


You can't defend North Australia unless you commit there 4 divs and other troops. So i don't understand why you want to go there as first priority. I invade North Australia as well, but as last priority, only after SRA/DEI/Burma is taken. But it doesn't help you a lot: you will lose it by late '42.

For India...well i still don't see why you are so concerned by Allies bombing Burma. After all, you take Burma exactly for that: as a buffer from Allied Bombers and Malaya/Bankok. You go in Chandpur and you will face the same problems: allies will bomb you and you will lose even more planes trying to defend there.

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Post #: 50
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 2:32:12 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Status: offline 		Consider that we will play with Andrew's Map Mod....where the road situation in Northern Oz is far more different from the normal map. It won't be easy for the allies to take Oz back...

later i'll post some screen shots to better explain my strategy

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Post #: 51
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 3:47:55 PM   
kaiser73


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Status: offline 		oh, i didn't know that. If there is no railroad then yes, it's good and easy to defend North Australia.

but why India? keeping 3 SRA divisions there (+ the ones in Burma or Allies can simply cut you off by landing in Burma) seems really a lot. with 5 Divs you could conquer early New Zealand...which would really put Allies in a bad situation

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Post #: 52
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 6:01:46 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Status: offline 		Ok, i'm going to try to go deeper in the analysis on my plans

First of all the Oz Operation:

When Ambonia will be secured and full of betties and Mavis, the first landings will take place at Darwin and at Timor. 3 Divisions for Darwin and 1 for Timor, with 2 Engeneers rgts, 3 Constr.Bns, Base forces and 2 Tank rgts, along with one SNLF ( paras) and some NLF or Naval guard units. Mini Kb and Ambonia base will give air support, waiting for the KB to come from the central pacific. 3 or 4 BBs will bomb the place and will cover the landings.
When Darwin will be secured many zeros and Betties will be placed here, freeing up the baby KB. If and when Darwin will fall, the other bases of Northern Oz won't be a problem to be captured. The key is to close the exit door towards the middle of Australia ( that based called...mm...Alice spring?). I'm planning to use paradrops here to get Daly waters before the Darwin garrison can get there. Then my Tanks will pursuit the retreating enemy.

As you can see from the Map, Northern Oz won't be easy for the allies to get it back. The only place that has a decent road connection is Darwin, but there's no way the allies can get their heavy bombers hit my garrisons here if i hold timor. And the plan is to make Timor a real Rock, with 2 big bases for betties and Emilies, from where to rule and Master the entire Timor sea.
I think a division in Darwin will be enough to defend the place for 1942.
As soon as thes objective will be gained, i'll move 3 divisions , 2 tank units, 2 arty units and part of the fleet towards Malaya, in order to conquer Singapore ( which should be already sieged ) and set up the next operation for Eastern India.



Here's the Map for Oz..

Later the considerations for India..






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 53
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/12/2005 6:08:35 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kaiser73

oh, i didn't know that. If there is no railroad then yes, it's good and easy to defend North Australia.

but why India? keeping 3 SRA divisions there (+ the ones in Burma or Allies can simply cut you off by landing in Burma) seems really a lot. with 5 Divs you could conquer early New Zealand...which would really put Allies in a bad situation



mmm....interesting Kaiser.
The fact is that i've been really impressed , in our last match, how fast he can put 450 and more planes in the area around Chandupur and start to bomb to dust everything from Bankok to Hanoi. In these conditions i do not hold the supremacy of the Bengal Sea, so every naval activity is for me forbidden since may 42.
while if i manage to get the right corner of the Bengal Bay ( from Diamond to Akyab and Rangoon) i can easily place my betties at Mandalay ,Akyab and Rangoon, closing "de facto" the whole bay for the RN.
Another consideration will be the fact that the border of my empire would be really thiner, being closed in the north by the Himalaya mountains ( so easier to defend).
when you get those bases in eastern India, there are not so many bases left close to Burma from where he can bomb my Oilplants and my AFs....







Attachment (1)

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Post #: 54
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 4/13/2005 10:15:18 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


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Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		As we can see from the Map above, i consider the best place to Land in India Diamond Harbour. It's a clear hex and from there , once captured, you can avoid some dangerous river crossings ( like Chandupur - Dacca). If the Janshedpur-Ansalon-Rangpur area can be secured, and filled with operational AFs, the allies won't have many bases close enough to the front from where to launch their bombers. Well, i mean, there's no base close enough from where to launch escorted bombing raids. If the night bombing has really been tuned down, these AFs should be defendable with some 4 Experienced zero Daitais supported by some oscars.
These considerations lead directly to another important point: Akyab MUST be taken in order to secure the right flank of the landings.
Probably the best thing should be to land at Akyab first asap, while my land troops conquer Mandalay and the rest of Burma. Then order to the Burma based troops ( the 33rd and the 55th division perhaps) to march towards Imphal and Chandupur from Mandalay and Akyab. These actions should force the allies to mass his defensive troops on the eastern Indian border, so that Diamond will be a bit less covered. But....there's always a "but".... how the RN will react? The only way to pevent the RN not to come and ruin my plans would be to have the controll over the Bengal Bay during the operation. So i will need my Long Range torpedo bombers to be at full efficiency. along with the mighty KB, the betties whould be able to force the RN not to go further than Columbo.
Again: how many divisions will i need? Let's say that 2 Divisions and 2 Mixed Regiments can conquer Mandalay......I need at least 1 division for Akyab...then, I'd say 5 divisions for Diamond? How many Assault point will the japs have to face in Eastern India by April? 2,500?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 55
RE: The Italian Job 2- Gen.Hoepner(J)-vs.-Mc3744 - 5/3/2005 12:57:02 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		It's been a while since i did not update this thread. Now we finally started our match using Andrew's Map Mod and his modified scen 15.

I'm making the first turn in these hours, so i think for this week end the war should start.
I'm keeping the strategy stated above. There are only little changes due to some new features of 1.5 ( ex. the new air bombing results).
As soon as i finish the first turn orders i'll post the entire strategy.

Thanks

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 56
Alea Iacta Est - 5/18/2005 7:50:18 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		Ok, time has come.
Japanese turn sent to my Italian mate.
Andrew's Map, scenario 15
No particular house rule, except for some common sense

The japanese startin' plan, as exposed above, is simple:
4 Divisions,2 Bdes and 2 Tank Rgts for Malaya
1 Division , 1 Bde and 1 Tank Rgt for Burma
1 Division, 1 Bde, plus some naval units for PI( Luzon)
1 Bde for Ambonia and Mindanao
4 Divisions, 2 Tank rgts and some minor units for Northern Oz
Guam, Wake,Rabaul and Tarawa as usual with S.S. Det and naval units

KB will strike PH

I know this is not a well done summary....as soon as i have the first combat replay i'll post something more accurate.

Alea Iacta Est

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 57
RE: Alea Iacta Est - 5/19/2005 2:30:07 AM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		I now have an objection to Andrews map and the map provided with the game as well.

In the game map a player can RR troops to Darwin, which was not possible in real life. This helps the Allies lauch attacks into the NEI.

With Andrews map a player cannot do this, but the player cannot send troops by sea either, since Australian troops will not get on transports without spending PPs.

So either way we are left with a gamey system. Personally I think playing "gamey" is fine, this is a game after all.

Its good to see some one taking advantage of the map and the rules, go get em!

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 58
RE: Alea Iacta Est - 5/19/2005 9:52:21 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		Your point is good Tom. No way to get those Aus Divs on ships and send to darwin. This is a limitation for sure, but i'm quite sure that the allies have their chances anyway. If those 4 divisions will go for Darwing they won't go for an early "Indian gamble", nor in the DEI or somewhere else...so it's just a matter of choices. This time i'l try the Oz adventure:-)

BTW i think that with the KB moving fast across the pacific it would be very very risky to send a big convoy by sea to Darwin.... By the 3rd day of War my baby KB, along with 5 BBs and many DDs will be in the waters around Darwin....while the KB will be sailing from PH to Palau or Truk....i cannot see how can the allies organize a big TF of troops with the air support needed in 3 days and send it north to Darwin....it would be a suicide, nothing more ( Imho)

I do not want to play gamey. Under my point of view if the Imperial Navy had agreed with the Jap Army for Oz as a primary obj this "scenario" could have been realistic.

Let's see how my opponent will react ( i'm very curious!)

Thanks for comments

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 59
We started here.... - 5/21/2005 3:40:35 AM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		So here we are. The first combat report is ready and the first day of war has passed by.

Strangly enough all his planes were down, waiting to be destroyed. Not a single fighter on cap...very unusual...instead there were many fighters set to naval attack...few bombs on some transports but nothing serious.
Made an HUGe mistake, sending a CAs TF to bomb Midway instead of Wake...so stupid...i confused the two isles:-(...useless to say that my wake invasion forces have been annihilated on the beaches
The PH raid was unsignificant..some damage but not a good raid at all.... lost few planes ( 25 on total) aganist his 200 between clark, singa and PH

The Oz invasion force is assembling around Palau. In 2 days it will sail towards Darwin..let's hope for the best

He moved up towards Singora ( songhia) a division or two ...my 5th div hasn't started unloading yet...hope he does not get it:-(((

2 good paras drops today. Bataan Island and Tavoy conquered with these special forces. The road towards Rangoon has been closed with this blitz! Banzai!

His CVs have been spotted moving southwards towards Palmyra...my KB is already on the run!

I will stay quite in the southpac for the moment. My first objs are Oz and Sra.

Let's see how he moves his force Z



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/07/41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 26,45

Japanese Ships
AK Nissyu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS KXII

Japanese ground losses:
85 casualties reported

not the best beginning
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kota Bharu , at 24,45

Japanese aircraft
C5M Babs x 3
Ki-21 Sally x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 10000 feet
16 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Singapore , at 22,51

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 97

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish: 2 destroyed
Vildebeest IV: 4 destroyed
Buffalo I: 5 destroyed
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
71 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:

some torp bombers destroyed...not bad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
G4M1 Betty x 54
Ki-46-II Dinah x 2
Ki-15 Babs x 8

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress: 2 destroyed
P-35A: 5 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 6 destroyed
P-26A: 3 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
71 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 24
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 83

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
G3M Nell x 36
C5M Babs x 2

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 57

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Clark Field , at 43,51

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 2 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 39

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
18 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 10000 feet

ok...not a funny day for the AA guys at Clark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 114,72

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11
D3A Val x 135
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 5 destroyed, 44 damaged
B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 34 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 20 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 4 destroyed
PBY Catalina: 16 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 7 destroyed
B-18A Bolo: 6 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
CL Helena, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Cachalot, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Breese, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bagley, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dale, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Tucker, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
140 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 27
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 133

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 3000 feet
27 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 3000 feet
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
27 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 3000 feet
26 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 3000 feet

none of those BBs sunk...and very few hardly damaged....upset
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Amboina at 40,74


Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Hudson I x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Somedono Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet

2 lucky hits...and some brave men are gone. BTW Ambonia must be mine as soon as possible cause i must cover the movements of my invasion forces for Oz
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Brunei, at 33,56

Japanese Ships
DD Hayabusa
DD Otori
DD Sagiri
CA Chokai


Allied ground losses:
93 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2
Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Kota Bharu, at 24,45


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
DD Hibiki
DD Akatsuki
DD Arashio
DD Michishio
DD Oshio
DD Asashio
CL Jintsu
CA Atago
CA Takao
BB Haruna
BB Kongo


Allied ground losses:
799 casualties reported
Guns lost 16

Airbase hits 33
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 160
Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 2

OUCH!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Midway Island, at 97,63 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
PBY Catalina: 1 destroyed

21 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CA Kako, Shell hits 9
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 2
CA Aoba


Allied ground losses:
329 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 15


I feel so idiot.........--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Jolo, at 39,59

Japanese Ships
DD Inazuma
DD Ikazuchi


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 2
Port fuel hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Kota Bharu, at 24,45

Japanese Ships
DD Hagikaze
DD Arashi
DD Nowaki
DD Maikaze
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami


Allied ground losses:
339 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 219
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Vigan, at 44,49

Japanese Ships
DD Samidare
DD Yudachi
DD Harusame
DD Murasame
DD Asagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
CL Naka


Allied ground losses:
109 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 27
Port hits 10
Port fuel hits 7
Port supply hits 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Amboina, at 40,74


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Umikaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Yamakaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Yukikaze
CL Nagara


Allied ground losses:
71 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 69
Port hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Aparri, at 45,49

Japanese Ships
DD Hatakaze
DD Harukaze
DD Nagatsuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Minazuki
DD Satsuki
CL Natori


Allied ground losses:
136 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 21
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Aparri, at 45,49

Japanese Ships
DD Matsukaze
DD Asakaze
CL Kuma
CA Ashigara
CA Maya


Allied ground losses:
178 casualties reported

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 17
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 15

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Jolo, at 39,59

Japanese Ships
DD Kamo
DD Kiji
CL Isuzu


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 2
Port hits 1

ok...my Ships bombed the hell out of the allied positions today! was really the naval gun day!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Wake Island, 85,72, firing at TF 16
TF 16 troops unloading over beach at Wake Island, 85,72


401 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
DD Mutsuki, Shell hits 6
AK Usa Maru, Shell hits 25, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kisaragi, Shell hits 3
DD Hayate, Shell hits 1
AP Kinryu Maru, Shell hits 8, on fire
CL Tenryu, Shell hits 2

Japanese ground losses:
735 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Kota Bharu, 24,45, firing at TF 62
TF 62 troops unloading over beach at Kota Bharu, 24,45


7 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
DD Kasasagi

Japanese ground losses:
137 casualties reported


I'll leave all these boring unloading reports so that you can know where i'm attacking
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 83 troops unloading over beach at Jesselton, 35,56


Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 84 troops unloading over beach at Puerto Princesa, 39,55


Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 86 troops unloading over beach at Brunei, 33,56


Japanese ground losses:
191 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 87 troops unloading over beach at Lingayen, 43,49


Japanese ground losses:
505 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 88 troops unloading over beach at Vigan, 44,49


Japanese ground losses:
249 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 89 troops unloading over beach at Legaspi, 45,54


Japanese ground losses:
176 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 90 troops unloading over beach at Aparri, 45,49


Japanese ground losses:
154 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 92 troops unloading over beach at Miri, 32,56


Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 129 troops unloading over beach at Jolo, 39,59


Japanese ground losses:
281 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 134 troops unloading over beach at Sandakan, 36,58


Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 188 troops unloading over beach at Amboina, 40,74


Japanese ground losses:
356 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 190 troops unloading over beach at Butuan, 44,59


Japanese ground losses:
190 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 191 troops unloading over beach at Bula, 41,75


Japanese ground losses:
62 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 192 troops unloading over beach at Weda, 42,70


Japanese ground losses:
79 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 198 troops unloading over beach at Guam, 63,66


Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 203 troops unloading over beach at Buin, 64,95


Japanese ground losses:
66 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 204 troops unloading over beach at Nauru Island, 77,95


Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanchang

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18242 troops, 178 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 7457 troops, 51 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!


China will be quite for the next couple of weeks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nauru Island

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 739 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Nauru Island base !!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1451 troops, 35 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 2584 troops, 18 guns, 0 vehicles


Japanese ground losses:
242 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Ouch....35 guns and these are the results??!??--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tavoy

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 664 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 734 troops, 6 guns, 2 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tavoy base !!!



Allied ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Yes!....these Paras are just great!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Batan Islands

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 446 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 622 troops, 6 guns, 1 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Batan Islands base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
1018 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2315 troops, 13 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1891 troops, 35 guns, 2 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0


Japanese ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 1

Hope to get rid of these tough bastards the next turn...if i fail i'll have to leave Wake

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 60
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