RE: livin in a dream world

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RE: livin in a dream world - 4/23/2005 8:02:08 AM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
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quote:

I think you are just looking at fond remembrances of your youth

I think yes there was magic, How I remember! But those rememberances are more real (heart and soul) experiences than fantasy. I too would be willing to pay the price for those classic boardgames brought to the computer that could faithfully bring the same satisfaction. And 3R was great for me.

There are attempts being made to equal them but I don't believe we've seen it happen yet.

I too encourage all involved in the wargame making process to seek perfection, push yourselves to the limits of your creative capabilities. In order to produce the most fantastic IGO UGO games yet to be made for the computer. Can you make this a new era of games gamers have to have!

But I hope the above not only happens with WWII games but also Napoleanic/ Civil War/ Ancient will be realzed

Now I have need for only computer play so boardgames are out for me. That is, unless there is a major change in my life like (no job/nowife) which demand my first attention.

Never played War in Europe but word of mouth says it was good.

I disagree with the idea that the games being made now are better. For me that is still a hope, yet to be realized.

My opinion is that, the early creators dedicated more their creative/ imaginative soul into how the game was faithful to war strategy simulation. Today the finacial pressures seem to force all involved in the game making to suppress some their creativty/imagination.

All being said, I play the games that are out here for us to play and find some of them very enjoyable.

A point to make is that GGWaW is an intermediate level game.

The emotional enjoyment with the older boardgames can also be attributed to playing with human opponent. I look forward to PBEM play with the new games to enhance my game playenjoyment

< Message edited by Zap -- 4/24/2005 3:56:02 AM >

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RE: livin in a dream world - 4/24/2005 4:50:24 AM

ravinhood

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Joined: 10/23/2003
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I see games today with better graphics, but, I don't see much of an improvement in gameplay vs the AI at least. I played SSI games of Gettysburg, Antietam, Sons of Liberty, Battles of Napolean, Fighter Command, Carrier Force, War of the Lance, (one of my favorites), SSG's Carriers at War and Europe Ablaze, for like forever and I really don't see any games today that really compare to the ease of play of those games and a half decent AI to go along with them. Those are just my favorites, I have many others. The SSI line of games was the creme-del-a-cream of just about all types of games back in the 80's. I just don't see any major improvements other than graphics 20 years later.

I've said it before and I'll say it again though, there's too much development time being spent in the WWII era. I think just about all of us have 100 WWII games by now. And Koios is hitting the mark with me going back into the Anceints, along with Slitherine as well.

Another one of my favorite types of games was Alpha Centauri, where one could design their own units and there really was no history or having to have historical accuracy in the game. One of the most superb games ever made IMHO. I believe Legions II: Civilizations & Empires is going to go the right path also, in an Ancient time period, but, not a big emphasis on any historical time line of accuracy to have to follow, sort of like Civilization takes a time stop in the Ancient period of time. I'm anxiously awaiting that one also.

I see developers putting years into ONE game for "graphics" sake. I still think for the most part that is a waste of resources and time. For graphics do not a great game make. It's the gameplay and the challenge (of the AI or human) that makes the game great for me. Personally if I owned a company no game would ever take more than a year to produce. The graphics would just have to be sufficient for that amount of time and the rest of the resources would go into creating challenge and a popular AI. So, why is COMBAT LEADER TAKING SO LONG I ASK NOW? ;)

(in reply to Zap)

Post #: 32

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/24/2005 5:17:28 AM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
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quote:

It's the gameplay and the challenge (of the AI or human) that makes the game great for me.

100% with you on that. Wheres the creativityand imagination?

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 33

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/25/2005 2:41:57 PM

markhwalker

Posts: 951
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline

It is the game, but part of the game is the graphics.

Yes, games are better today.

Better GUI

Frequently better AI.

New approaches to old topics.

Too much time in WW2? Couldn't agree more. I'd have loved Matrix to buy the LnL: Red Storm Rising concept (and they still may), but the problem is that WW2 is what people buy. I don't know why... people tell me equal combatants, but that usually is a sign of ignorance. There were MANY equal small unit engagements in both the Storm and Iraqi Freedom, and in the Falklands. I know,... I have interviewed veterans that were there, men that say the Iraqis fought hard (but were generally clueless). Same goes for the Falklands. The Brits might have you believe it was a cakewalk. Not so, specifically men I've spoke with in the Parachute Regiment state that the Argies fought hard from defensive positions, and the Argi Marines gave the RM ALL they could handle. But folks might not buy LnL modules based on those eras because of the unequal conflicts.

Best,

Mark

(in reply to Zap)

Post #: 34

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/25/2005 3:34:02 PM

Vyshka

Posts: 275
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Chandler, AZ
Status: offline

How does the stuff from avalanche press fit into this?
John Prados Third Reich and Great Pacific War?

I am guessing from what I have seen that the BH stuff
is the latest incarnation of A3R?

(in reply to Paul Vebber)

Post #: 35

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/25/2005 4:25:32 PM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
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Yes, Bruce Harper's A World at War is a combining, major refinement to and continuation in the 'maturing" of the 3rd Reich base design.

(in reply to Vyshka)

Post #: 36

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/25/2005 9:55:15 PM

Sarge

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Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I've said it before and I'll say it again though, there's too much development time being spent in the WWII era. I think just about all of us have 100 WWII games by now.

Agreed,

I have pretty much lost interest in all new WWII pc games and no longer follow any development . With the exceptions of CMX2 and any development of the HTTR engine.

Although I do not agree with you on graphics, I would like to see this gender start getting with the times . And I am not talking about the cookie cutter RTS eye candy you see being released today.

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RE: livin in a dream world - 4/26/2005 12:10:51 AM

UndercoverNotChickenSalad

Posts: 3990
Joined: 2/19/2002
From: Denial Aisle
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Can't believe u old curmudgeons are still going on about this

Sentimental fools.

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Post #: 38

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/26/2005 12:54:13 AM

celebrindal

Posts: 314
Joined: 2/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Is BHWaW a global sequel of sorts to Third Reich? The map sure looks like that familiar old 3R map, with BRPs and whatnot.

I also cut my teeth on 3R -- and ASL, PanzerBlitz, and about 30 other Avalon Hill games. I love those games, but I don't see as they have any more or less "soul" than games like GGWaW and WITP. Sure, I sometimes have nostalgia for the actual cardboard counters, the dice, the pretty boards. But PC games don't take 50 square feet of table space, and they're immune from cats. :P

You've never had your cat try to crawl up your leg with claws out as you click the mouse on something important have you :-)

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 39

RE: livin in a dream world - 4/26/2005 3:39:53 AM

ravinhood

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[With the exceptions of CMX2]

Yeah same here. I will continue buying the CM series mainly because of the random features the games always provide. It's not stale like WAW or WitP or generalized WWII operational/strategic wargames. It's tactical and I like that. What I would wish for is some form of extended campaign feature in CMX2 that one can take a company or group of soldiers from the beginnings of the war to the end. (This is why SPWAW is also popular with me.) Sort of like an Easy Company or Big Red One group. I dunno perhaps I am the only one after a battle that scours the battlefield and check out the mens names who died during the battle. It would give more meaning to the whole game if these men could go from battle to battle and then one would begin to get sort of an attachment like one does when playing X-Com. I think it would be kewl the be able to name my men in my groups as well. Heh, I would have a David, and above all else a VEBBER (he'd always be my POINT man) lol, maybe just that added roleplay ability of naming ones units and a full campaign game would make CM series even greater. I also think an exceptional feature for CMX2 would be a full file of the whole scenario that plays out in real time and not in a wego system. Like watching a war movie after playing it. ;) That was one of the best things I liked about Medieval Total War. I still have 100's of movies saved of famous battles I had. Many are epic, and many are just slaughters that are fun to watch again. heh

(in reply to Sarge)

Post #: 40