TheElf
Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003 From: Pax River, MD Status: offline
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I posted this example of one of the LAST B-17 Missions in the Pacific back when the LAST B-17 lovers thread was still kicking. Being that it is midnight and I have an early day rather than waste time and energy on this dead horse I thought I'd just recycle this post. quote:
Ahh the cult of the B-17, alive and well. God, I wish I had saved my post from the old UV debate on the merits of the great B-17(in the Pacific) and the “weak” Japanese Army and Navy air forces in early 1942. This horse has been beaten to death. But here we go again, a small dose of reality regarding the B-17 in the Pacific. At first I saw the results of the combat and for about 30 seconds actually wondered why the invincible B-17 took such a beating. Then it became obvious. The Jap pilots that perpetrated that AAR had to be highly experienced, highly motivated, and had to use very bold tactics. But where would you find pilots like that in early 42’?!?!? Those B-17 groups had to be inexperienced, suffering from mid-low morale, had to be unescorted, and they must have been going into a large Japanese base hex defended by large numbers of top-notch fighter pilots who are well-rested, supplied, and supported. Uh…and they were. If you want to talk about historical vs. ahistorical results lets use this formula that is prevalent in Naval Aviation. Garbage in = Garbage out Another way of saying that is Ahistorical use = Ahistorical results Here is a report that illustrates several things. 1. That the B-17 when used inappropriately IS NOT INVINCIBLE. 2. That Veteran Zero pilots used BOLD TACTICS (Big surprise right?) 3. That the B-17 WAS capable of sustaining heavy damage BUT WAS NOT INVINCIBLE under the right circumstances. 4. That after Feb 1943 the B-17 performed little more than recon and transport duties in the Pacific. 5. Operational damage is NOT just aircraft breaking down. It is an abstract amalgamation of Mechanical issues, supply, morale, and injured aircrew* * This is vividly described in the following account “In Feb 1943 a flight of 4 B-17s with an escort of 4 P-40s attacked Shortland Harbor near Bouganville. At this stage of the war over the Solomons some Japanese units showed signs of operational decline. Others, however, still had the old magic: Obviously the American raiders confronted Japanese veterans. A large flight of Zeroes jumped the Americans, destroyed three B-17s (that’s 75% folks), and scattered the escorts. The remaining B-17 was pursued by several Zeros for half an hour. Major H.H. Carroll, the Squadron’s flight surgeon, was a passenger on the flight and wrote this account soon after landing: The fight ended up at 1,200’ with our pilot, Captain Thomas, flying full-bore. All of our machine-gun ammunition had been expended 20 minutes before the Zeroes left. The Zeroes used bold tactics. Some of the enemy planes approached to within 10 yds. Of the wingtips of the B-17, then executed a half roll on the same level. Sometimes, the enemy would climb, and at others, he would dive. One Zero flew in upside down and came about 10 feet above the bomber in a slight dive, firing down. Another one came in toward the nose, pulled straight up into a loop, and came back over upside down firing. Their tactics different and bolder than those observed previously in this area. The Zero pilots showed no fear of the B-17s guns. When they stared a pass they completed it. The B-17 was riddled with 7.7 and 20mm bullets. One waist gunner and the bombardier had severe gunshot wounds. All gunners and the co-pilot received shrapnel wounds. #1 and #2 engines were functioning about 1/3 their normal efficiency. All twin cables had been severed by gun fire and that together with the great amount of torque made flying difficult and hazardous. It seemed impossible to get the ship home and a water landing was contemplated. Because two crew members were seriously wounded, Capt., Thomas tried one more thing. In order to keep the plane on an even keel, the pilot and co-pilot held the wheel control forward with their knees, and maintained sufficient left rudder to compensate for the torque. After manually cranking the gear and flaps down, a near perfect landing was made on Henderson Field even though both tires were flat. Whether obvious or not at the time, this was one of the last bombing missions conducted by B-17s in the Pacific Theater. The Fort soldiered on as a recon and transport A/C, but the bombers were wearing out fast...” --Fire in the Sky, Bergerud, p.275-76 Keep in mid this was FEB 43’. How many of that crew were ready for duty the next day? Of the rest of that Bomb group that witnessed only 25% of that day’s raid return, how many guys were raring to fly the next day? You think their morale dropped…? Yeah, I do too. How many replacement aircrew were teleported to Henderson field to fill in for the 30 dudes lost and 9 dudes injured? Remember my equation from above? Garbage in = Garbage out Ahistorical use = Ahistorical results How many 21 plane, unescorted B-17 raids against well rested/supplied top-notch Zero pilots and Oscar pilots enjoying a 2:1 advantage over their own territory actually occurred in March 1942? Or the rest of the war for that matter? How successful was the B-17 when unescorted? Even in other theaters? Can you say Schweinfert? By my calculations better than 50% of the raid returned. I’d say that was a pretty good result considering the situation those poor Bastages were put in. And there are people out there that have the nerve to wank about that kind of result. I bet those same people won’t be wanking about being able to field 48 B-17s on long range raids against Rabaul in Late 43’ or early 44’, but that $#!t didn’t happen either. When you change history, the results can not be historic. Pretty simple. That’s why this game exists. So you can do these things. You just better be prepared for the consequences.
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IN PERPETUUM SINGULARIS SEDES
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