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RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame.....

 
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RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/11/2006 10:58:58 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
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It was a great AAR.

< Message edited by BrucePowers -- 6/12/2006 2:19:51 PM >

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 991
RE: Congressman Minderbinder - 6/12/2006 4:36:24 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli



So, is Milo going to wake up and find it's 7 Dec 41?


Hmmmm

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 992
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 4:37:42 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

As I stepped out into the bright sunlight.....from bunker 1471, Canton....Southern China........the reality of the situation hits home.....

The war is lost and I have been summoned to Tokyo to sign the surrender document....Oh the shame...the shame....

I order all my staff to commit suicide and those 873 deaths ease some of the pain of the shame.......

I polish off some of the last of the Vintage Krug and the very last of the cavier and order my chef to kill himself as well....no blinis.....what kind of war is this......

I turn to address my faithfull troops.....who are waving at me with clenched fists.....a sign of solidarity I assume......the poor wretches are all starving....the supply situation has been poor for months......though it must be said my uniform is a touch tighter than when the war began.......my stirring speech moves the troops to tears, and to show their affection they set light to a veriety of surprisingly accurate effigies of my self.......

I decide to board the destoyer than is to bear me to the Home Islands.......I expected a battleship....what kind of war is this?

AsI board, I notice then 36 new pilots of the Tojo Sqdrn that arrived today.........16 year olds, only flown once before, I order them to commit suicide....their parents would approve.......but I do notice that all the new aircraft are being packed into crates marked M&M enterprises......hmmmm..........






Fabertong;

Glad you explained about the spanking. I thought it was something worse

Can you shed any light on the fate of Varner Olund, mole and commander of Jap 20th Inf Div in China?



< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 6/12/2006 7:52:02 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 993
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 6:06:39 AM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 554
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I seam to be first to sign to sign this surrender. The Surpreme commander would have signed but, he went down with one of the many carriers that were lost. Not having served any time in the trenches and only taking coffee from a bridge of a ship it is hard to believe the Imperail Navy is no longer a force. Long live the Emperor.

Adm Nelson




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Very Proud Marine Dad

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 994
There is no glory in war, only war. - 6/12/2006 7:48:51 AM   
tabpub


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Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
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I hereby append my signature to this document to end the Pacific War, F&L version 1.801.

Post war interrogations and tribunals will now commence.
The Allied Governments do not see the likelihood of any capital cases in any of the tribunals; though, we can not speak for the future Japanese civil government. They may wish to prosecute their own cases; in that event, the information gathered here may be used by them.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 995
Interrogation of General Fabertong - 6/12/2006 8:21:50 AM   
tabpub


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General Fabertong:

Your command in China seemed to have the best success of all the sectors in the IJ effort.  You occupied Kweiyang, 120 miles east of Chunking, occupied the Chunking-Sian-Ichang road intersection at 30,45, and were engaged at Homan and Yenen at time of the armistice. But, it did not seem that you were having any success at the end, other than the final takeover of Kweiyang. Would it be fair to say that you had reached the end of your rope in China? Additionally, forces were moving/had moved to isolate your group at the CSI intersection; were you aware of this and did this have any noticable effect on your troops supply states?

Questions over Burma will have to wait for Field Marshal Mandrake to make an appearance.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 996
Interrogation of Admiral Nelson - 6/12/2006 8:57:51 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
Admiral Nelson:

Intelligence had you as the commander responsible for the Solomons area. You had some notable success early on, culminating with your capture of the Port Moresby complex. Did you feel that it was a worthwhile achievement to capture, especially in light of the loss of Milne Bay months later, which rendered PM vulnerable to isolation at Buna in the future?

What was the objective of the carrier task forces in the Coral Sea in the final battle?

Were you in command of the other carriers in the Banda Sea also? Or were they running under a different commander?

It seemed that the pilot quality of your planes had really hit the low end of the scale; as pointed out by FM Mandrake earlier, your plane losses were greatly above ours for the campaign. Did it seem to be the gradual attrition of pilots that affected this, or was it a specific campaign or two that really degraded your air arm. How were the carrier groups holding up? We thought that we had identified some being used from land during the PM campaign.

< Message edited by tabpub -- 6/12/2006 8:58:41 AM >


_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 997
RE: Interrogation of General Fabertong - 6/12/2006 9:42:19 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

General Fabertong:

Your command in China seemed to have the best success of all the sectors in the IJ effort.  You occupied Kweiyang, 120 miles east of Chunking, occupied the Chunking-Sian-Ichang road intersection at 30,45, and were engaged at Homan and Yenen at time of the armistice. But, it did not seem that you were having any success at the end, other than the final takeover of Kweiyang. Would it be fair to say that you had reached the end of your rope in China? Additionally, forces were moving/had moved to isolate your group at the CSI intersection; were you aware of this and did this have any noticable effect on your troops supply states?

Questions over Burma will have to wait for Field Marshal Mandrake to make an appearance.

Rob.......Here is a quick map of China.......I think I still had more to do in China.....but the way the war was heading elsewhere China was destined to become a backwater......

The 12th Army was assembling at Canton for the DEI, but we didn't have the shipping or airpower to get them there....
I was about to clear your blocking force from the road with 4 Divs....and then look where to reinforce.......
My supply on the juction was fine...but it wouldn't last if I can't clear the road.....
With Tojo's and Tony's arriving I had hoped to have the first viable airgroups to knock Yenen......

I feel I did alright in China....Burma was a different matter..........here is a map




Attachment (1)

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 998
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 9:57:07 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
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From: Bristol, England, U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

As I stepped out into the bright sunlight.....from bunker 1471, Canton....Southern China........the reality of the situation hits home.....

The war is lost and I have been summoned to Tokyo to sign the surrender document....Oh the shame...the shame....

I order all my staff to commit suicide and those 873 deaths ease some of the pain of the shame.......

I polish off some of the last of the Vintage Krug and the very last of the cavier and order my chef to kill himself as well....no blinis.....what kind of war is this......

I turn to address my faithfull troops.....who are waving at me with clenched fists.....a sign of solidarity I assume......the poor wretches are all starving....the supply situation has been poor for months......though it must be said my uniform is a touch tighter than when the war began.......my stirring speech moves the troops to tears, and to show their affection they set light to a veriety of surprisingly accurate effigies of my self.......

I decide to board the destoyer than is to bear me to the Home Islands.......I expected a battleship....what kind of war is this?

AsI board, I notice then 36 new pilots of the Tojo Sqdrn that arrived today.........16 year olds, only flown once before, I order them to commit suicide....their parents would approve.......but I do notice that all the new aircraft are being packed into crates marked M&M enterprises......hmmmm..........






Fabertong;

Glad you explained about the spanking. I thought it was something worse

Can you shed any light on the fate of Varner Olund, mole and commander of Jap 20th Inf Div in China?



VARNER OLUND A MOLE........the shock....the horror......I had entrusted him with all the Ming vases I had liberated from across China....for delivery to my new home in an undisclosed location.......the last time I saw the rat he was on RnR in a brothel in Hanoi....I was also there at the time.....an innocent visit I assure you.......if you find him I trust you will return any stolen goods to their rightfull owner........me.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 999
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:00:15 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
You just can't trust people... A sad commentary on society...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1000
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:30:04 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong


VARNER OLUND A MOLE........the shock....the horror......I had entrusted him with all the Ming vases I had liberated from across China....for delivery to my new home in an undisclosed location.......the last time I saw the rat he was on RnR in a brothel in Hanoi....I was also there at the time.....an innocent visit I assure you.......if you find him I trust you will return any stolen goods to their rightfull owner........me.



What?! Do you mean he is still alive? We had believed on the basis of radio intercepts that he had been executed after he was discovered in command of 20th Div. It would seem he wasn't quite the hero we had been led to believe. I will have to notify Topps to recall all his trading cards. Never trust someone who has to glue on his face.

You do bring a good point though. Were the "comfort women" in Hanoi comfortable in a Rubenesque sort of way or more angular? This is one area where the Imperial Army ha d a logistical advantage over the Allies.

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1001
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:36:20 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

You just can't trust people... A sad commentary on society...



quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Mandrake
I will have to notify Topps to recall all his trading cards.



it's even a sadder commentary when you can't trust the Topps "Allied Spies" card series...

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1002
RE: Interrogation of Admiral Nelson - 6/12/2006 10:46:32 PM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 554
Joined: 5/14/2001
From: New Mexico
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

Admiral Nelson:

Intelligence had you as the commander responsible for the Solomons area. You had some notable success early on, culminating with your capture of the Port Moresby complex. Did you feel that it was a worthwhile achievement to capture, especially in light of the loss of Milne Bay months later, which rendered PM vulnerable to isolation at Buna in the future?

What was the objective of the carrier task forces in the Coral Sea in the final battle?

Were you in command of the other carriers in the Banda Sea also? Or were they running under a different commander?

It seemed that the pilot quality of your planes had really hit the low end of the scale; as pointed out by FM Mandrake earlier, your plane losses were greatly above ours for the campaign. Did it seem to be the gradual attrition of pilots that affected this, or was it a specific campaign or two that really degraded your air arm. How were the carrier groups holding up? We thought that we had identified some being used from land during the PM campaign.


The answer to the first question is yes. But Gili Glil needs to be better defended. PM left in place as a major base threatens all of southern New Guinea plus Rabaul. As you probably noted there was a lack of aircraft in the area to repluse or delay the assault on Gili Gili. It would be a good time to point out most of the Imperial Navy was engaged in the Java Theater. Which was a major and poor decision on my part.

I was in command of both carrier groups. The first was sent to be raiders in the Coral Sea and try to take some pressure off the Rabaul area and possibly the carriers in the Java Area. Our last operation in Java and Koepang was code named " OPERATION RESOLVE". It was a do or die operation.

Lack of pilot quality was only surpassed by lack of aircraft. Most of the good pilots left were off carriers and even they were down to 50% quality. Most of the group based carrier groups were from either destroyed carrier or heavy damaged carriers. Lack of aircraft was more of a direct result of planes being destroyed on the groun. Lack of pilots was result of fighting battles and not having enough airbases in the area to support operations. Both battles for Lunga and Port Moresby were support with plenty ground aircraft to acheive air surperiority for both battles. The same cannot be said for my operations in Timor area

It's late I will continue the interrogation later. If you have more questions I can answer them later.

_____________________________

Very Proud Marine Dad

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 1003
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:53:36 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
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From: Bristol, England, U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong


VARNER OLUND A MOLE........the shock....the horror......I had entrusted him with all the Ming vases I had liberated from across China....for delivery to my new home in an undisclosed location.......the last time I saw the rat he was on RnR in a brothel in Hanoi....I was also there at the time.....an innocent visit I assure you.......if you find him I trust you will return any stolen goods to their rightfull owner........me.



What?! Do you mean he is still alive? We had believed on the basis of radio intercepts that he had been executed after he was discovered in command of 20th Div. It would seem he wasn't quite the hero we had been led to believe. I will have to notify Topps to recall all his trading cards. Never trust someone who has to glue on his face.

You do bring a good point though. Were the "comfort women" in Hanoi comfortable in a Rubenesque sort of way or more angular? This is one area where the Imperial Army ha d a logistical advantage over the Allies.



I believe I had 14 commanders of the 20th put to death.....but he always struck me as a trustworthy commander.....hence my trust in my Mings.........believe me if I find him before you.........I'll liberate his head from his shoulders.......unless he has a solid bribe.........


BTW ...Madam Kaiko's in Hanoi......mention my name and you get a discount............

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1004
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:54:45 PM   
Terminus


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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

BTW ...Madam Kaiko's in Hanoi......mention my name and you get a discount............


On what? I'm not sure I want a discount on something you've had...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1005
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 10:56:58 PM   
fabertong


Posts: 4546
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From: Bristol, England, U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

BTW ...Madam Kaiko's in Hanoi......mention my name and you get a discount............


On what? I'm not sure I want a discount on something you've had...

Trust me....he would.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1006
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 11:16:36 PM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 554
Joined: 5/14/2001
From: New Mexico
Status: offline
And the planning and thoughts of One AdmNelson

Building, building, building. The front around Port Moresby. We are building at Gili Gili, Lae, Rabaul, and Lunga. Should have Port Moresby isolated completely by the end of the month. Sending two BoomBoxes to bombard PM earlier lastweek was not a good idea. Both of them were hit by torpedos from bombers at PM, they both should made it back to Truk. So now we build ,and then we will return the favor. Thursday Island will be captured soon. With the assault on PM will start. In early Jan the Americans had their noses bloodied in the coral and lost 5-6 heavy crusiers. I just missed one carrier group around Guadacanal. If the Americans want to stop the lost of PM their carriers will have to be used. I hope they try.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Operation "RESOLVE" will continue



_____________________________

Very Proud Marine Dad

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1007
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 11:27:37 PM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 554
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From: New Mexico
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Map




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Very Proud Marine Dad

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 1008
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/12/2006 11:39:31 PM   
AdmNelson


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From: New Mexico
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The near miss. Again thought s of One AdmNelson

"RElief convoys the Allies sent to Port Moresby were hit hard on their way back over the last 10 days. It seams the American commander was not happy --- so the American carriers hvave moved up into the Coral Sea. At this point KB 1 air ops are at 57%. I am going to move it back over the air umbrella from Rabaul. KB2 is moving to intercept the USN carriers and join with KB1. This will take 3 days. If I can catch the Americans out in the open ocean , then i will have chance to destroy them. I would have sent KB1 even with the lower air ops to engage the carriers, but I don't know how many there are. With KB2 joining the battle, I might be able to catch the carriers in a two prong attack.

Landings at Merauke are taking place and with a baseforce, my plan is to build it up to a level 2 base and place either vals or kates there and close the the back door to norhtern OZ. This base will be backed up by Wewak which is a level 4 base now. "






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Very Proud Marine Dad

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 1009
RE: Interrogation of Admiral Nelson - 6/13/2006 12:51:34 AM   
tabpub


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Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
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quote:

The answer to the first question is yes. But Gili Glil needs to be better defended. PM left in place as a major base threatens all of southern New Guinea plus Rabaul. As you probably noted there was a lack of aircraft in the area to repluse or delay the assault on Gili Gili. It would be a good time to point out most of the Imperial Navy was engaged in the Java Theater. Which was a major and poor decision on my part.

I was in command of both carrier groups. The first was sent to be raiders in the Coral Sea and try to take some pressure off the Rabaul area and possibly the carriers in the Java Area. Our last operation in Java and Koepang was code named " OPERATION RESOLVE". It was a do or die operation.

Lack of pilot quality was only surpassed by lack of aircraft. Most of the good pilots left were off carriers and even they were down to 50% quality. Most of the group based carrier groups were from either destroyed carrier or heavy damaged carriers. Lack of aircraft was more of a direct result of planes being destroyed on the groun. Lack of pilots was result of fighting battles and not having enough airbases in the area to support operations. Both battles for Lunga and Port Moresby were support with plenty ground aircraft to acheive air surperiority for both battles. The same cannot be said for my operations in Timor area

It's late I will continue the interrogation later. If you have more questions I can answer them later.


PM would be a threat if the DEI operations were over and you had full flexibility and the intitiative. Here, all that the PM garrison does is guard a wrecked airstrip.

The carriers were raiding; I thought that they were trying to transit the Torres Strait and reinforce the Java fleet via the short route.

Yes, now that I have access to the files, I have made a short list of the plane situation.
Japan Land based Combat A/C (F,FB,DB,LB,TB) - 1900
" " Naval " " " " (all less FP) - 200
Allied Land based Combat A/C (less Soviet) -3450
" " Naval " " (all less FP) - 445
Additionally, the Japanese experience levels are well below their prewar #'s, as would be expected with the loss figures.

Ran some of the next turns to check out some results:
Zuikaku rolled over the next morning, joining her sister on the bottom of the Banda.
Akagi proved a tough old girl, taking over 100 more 500# hits as she rowed home toward the Solomon Sea (I think that if a couple of 1000# equipped Libbys hadn't shown up she would STILL be afloat....) Shoho was also dealt with short of reaching safety.

On the Allied side, the Formidable (as I recall) was the one that ate 2 torpedoes and was heading home over 40 sys and around 50 float. All the other Banda Sea carriers were fine, though some air group attrition on the English ones was significant.

In the Coral, the Enterprise and Hornet were both over the combined 50 sys/flt damage levels, resulting in their airgroups taking severe hits in ditching planes; as the combat was just a hair too far out in the ocean for the planes to reach land. Both were at around 30 sys, so would be out about 2 months. Yorktown had made the scene (and was involved in the combat originally, not late as previously reported), but until the Lex and Sara return and Wasp arrives from Suva she would be the only carrier to cover future operations here.

Finally, had the 2nd UK Division and two Aussi brigades DA the Jap forces at Palembang, ejecting them from the hex. This was mainly due to the low or non-existant supplies there. Another attack like this at Surabaya failed to reach 1-1 as the forces there still had more than 50% supply for the IJA. Note that the "beginning" AV values that we had been seeing would not have indicated this result in Palembang; another reason not to trust everything that you see, not everything is what it appears sometimes. Of course, it helped to "see" the Japanese supply reports.....

NOW, for the $64,000 question.....to what factor(s) do you attribute the reversal of fortune that occurred to the Imperial Japanese in this timeline?

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 1010
RE: Interrogation of Admiral Nelson - 6/13/2006 5:08:41 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
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If you guys restart, how about a CHS or RHS mod this time?

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 1011
Strange Events on the Danish Coast - 6/13/2006 4:42:22 PM   
rtrapasso


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DANISH SCHOOL CHILDREN BEAT OFF ATTACK BY STRANGE PENGUINS

AP – Copenhagen June 13, 2006 12:10 p.m.

Danish schoolchildren armed with cap guns and toy walkie-talkies managed to beat off an attack at their school by hordes of confused penguins.

The penguins (apparently of the Emperor species made familiar in recent nature movies) were wearing bedraggled WW2-style Japanese uniforms. The origin and purpose (if any) of the penguins were not immediately apparent, and the confusion was increased because few of the penguins could speak or understand Danish. A few bystanders on the scene that could understand English claimed the penguins made squawks that sounded like “Milo” and “Fear and Loathing”.

The penguins were repulsed by the doughty gradeschoolers without losses to themselves. The birds were last seen swimming furiously out to sea, apparently in pursuit of a leader penguin in a tight-fitting Japanese Field Marshall’s uniform. Witnesses claim the penguins were last seen swimming towards the English coast.





< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 6/13/2006 4:48:01 PM >

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 1012
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 4:59:07 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

All discusion of Fear and Loathing will now be unpacked here....the Jap. site is closed....


i've managed to retrieve it somehow...

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1013
The crayon biz - 6/13/2006 5:22:28 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
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From: Southern California
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..messed up the pic




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 6/13/2006 5:36:05 PM >

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 1014
RE: The crayon biz - 6/13/2006 5:25:19 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

..



That was... uh, succinct!

----
after the edit:

Ah, that's better! i see there is one holdout on the Japanese side - is he hiding in the jungles of the Philippines??

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 6/13/2006 5:56:27 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1015
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 6:11:05 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AdmNelson

.....In early Jan the Americans had their noses bloodied in the coral and lost 5-6 heavy crusiers.....



No kidding.."bloody nose" is generous. It was our worst naval loss. Adm King was ticked off..prompting the letter below. I went away to Europe on vacation..when I came back..yikes Poor Mark, I think he took it hard and disappeared from the ether.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 6/13/2006 6:13:40 PM >

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 1016
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 6:24:52 PM   
Tom Hunter


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I have been following the AAR and thought I would dive in to give some perspective on Allied Strategy, both overall and from the point of view of my command, which was China, India and Logistics.


Logistics meant that I routed all supply and also all reinforcements as they arrived on map. I also occasionally gave specific orders for specific air and sea unit. Otherwise the two Allied commanders had nearly complete discretion in their own commands.

To get some idea how this worked in practice during the evacuation of Malaya I ran the Royal Navy and the British troops in Malaya, Captain Mandrake ran all the air operations that came out of Batavia and Palembang. Mandrake also created the support concentrations that we used to run those operations. Tabpub sent all his 4 engine bombers to Mandrake but got them back at the end of the operation.

Over all our coordination was good when it counted, which is the only thing that really matters. All 3 of us occasionally did things that left the other two wondering but I think we did a decent job of shutting up and letting the local commander figure it out.

In China the Japanese did a fine job of making war on my supplies which gradually made the front line positions untenable and forced the Chinese back into the interior of the country.

In Burma repeated movement bugs prevented the British from launching serious counter attacks. several divisions worth of stuff tried to get from Ledo to Myitikyina and failed, speding at total of 4 months walking around in the jungle before they finally got out by marching back to Ledo. Eventually we lost a division when we tried to bring troops in by air transport.

This caused problems for China because it allowed the Japanese to cut the Burma road but it also proved disasterous for Japan because once I gave up on fighting for Burma the British had an army with nothing to do. So we sent it to Palembang and Java where it stopped the Japanese.

I will try to post more on over all stragey and the Royal Navy when I have the time.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1017
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 7:06:51 PM   
fabertong


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God knows, Tom, I was ripe for a counter attack in Burma.....and expecting one....but the jungle trails are a hard road to travel....even without bugs......in another game I took all of China, bar Chungking, and have marched a good 1/4 of my Chinese army to Burma.......they will get there but by the time all of them assemble and regain strength it will be a total of 6 months.....not worth it. .....I was half expecting a seabourne invasion....with our airforce dead on the airfields......and no ships north of Singapore, if you had the transports I couldn't have stopped you.......

I think our (the Japs) command structure meant that we were to often operating independently.....so when one command got in a spot of trouble, it was hard for us to re-route reinforcements.....and we spread ourselves too thin trying to capture too much with too little.....

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 1018
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 8:06:15 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Joined: 11/15/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AdmNelson

........... I just missed one carrier group around Guadacanal. If the Americans want to stop the lost of PM their carriers will have to be used. I hope they try........


You missed Enterprise and Lexington by one day. Of course, I suspected the Jap carriers were loitering North of Lunga somewhere..so Lex and Enterpise retreated South at flank speed after their one day raid to avoid an encounter with superior forces. The victims were a pair of DD's trying to evac the Aussie
engineers on Lunga. We had a standing order from Lord Admiral Hunter to avoid carrier engagements until the fighter groups were at full strength with F4F-4's and the zero bonus was gone. Having TBF's would be a nice bonus.

Any demonstration in the Coral Sea by our carriers was a hope that we could catch surface groups or transports without the carriers. It wasn't to be. The defenders of PM had to do it on their own. A difficult choice.

Map of the Lunga raid below:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to AdmNelson)
Post #: 1019
RE: Oh, the shame.....the shame..... - 6/13/2006 8:34:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

God knows, Tom, I was ripe for a counter attack in Burma.....and expecting one....but the jungle trails are a hard road to travel....even without bugs......in another game I took all of China, bar Chungking, and have marched a good 1/4 of my Chinese army to Burma.......they will get there but by the time all of them assemble and regain strength it will be a total of 6 months.....not worth it. .....I was half expecting a seabourne invasion....with our airforce dead on the airfields......and no ships north of Singapore, if you had the transports I couldn't have stopped you.......




Indeed, 3 1/2 Indian divisions and some Chindits were preparing for exactly that purpose in Chandpur. 250+ medium bombers at Akyab were waiting for the GD monsoon season to end.

My plan was to land at Moulmein because there wasn't enough transport in the Indian Ocean to lift all at once (much had been sent to Northern Oz for planned exploitation through Borneo, Sulawese and the PI with the Aussie Div's

(in reply to fabertong)
Post #: 1020
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