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RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/3/2005 7:44:24 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

Irrelevant..Try to figure it by combat front "square footage"..


No way, man, DIY, you're on your own here

OHHhhhh..A WISE GUY!!!...NYUK,NYUK,NYUK,NYUK,NYUK......


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Post #: 31
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 1:12:40 AM   
Halsey

 

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Joined: 2/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Hope I don't start any wars here with my Army buddies,but this is my personal observation.
1.I was (always will be),an Army Ranger..That said,bear with me:
2.The American Army and the USMC had different philosophies from day one.The Army kills it's opponent by slow movement and attrition through maintaining contact with the enemy in a forceful manner..
3.The USMC kills it's opponent by being the finest assault troops the world has ever seen.It maintains this by honestly not placing as much concern with it's own losses,as much as it's accomplishment of the goal.
I had Gyrenes in my AIT unit,and most of the "soldiers" in that AIT thought the Gyrenes were NUTS!.
While I was the only Ranger in that particular AIT,(and therfore could see both sides,the "soldiers" were amazed that in the AIT judo-pits,the Gyrenes went out of their way to "hurt each other",apparently by creed,whereas the soldiers "went thru the motions",which was all that was expected by the judo instructors.
While the Army trains it's people well,it still leaves a lot for the individual troop to learn "on the battlefield",whereas the Gyrene expects to have his roughest time in his boot camp,so any foreign enemy cannot possibly be as bad as wheere he has already been!.This ideology has been verbally confirmed for me by the Gyrenes I have met(and fought with) in my youth.
BTW,the battle cheer "UUURRAHHH" was a "Ranger-thing" waaaay before the Gyrenes started using it..


You're right on target bob.
As class leader in Rigger School I had the fortune of having half the class made out of Marines. Great, I'm gonna have to keep these guys from killing my Army troopers.

How wrong I was! It was Marine vs Marine! Fighting, pulling dogchains through their noses, and seeing who could shoot their wad the farthest.
The Army troops just stood back. Eyes wide open, jaws hitting the ground, shaking their heads. No one had ever seen anything like it.

The Marines hated having an Army NCO in charge, so we split the class up.
The Jarheads commanded their own kind, and I took the Army troopers under my command. The class graduated 100%, plus a couple of retreads from previous classes.
All distinguished graduates were Army personnel.
The first time that a class had 100% graduate Rigger School in 5 years.

You want to see an Army unit mutiny? Put a Marine officer in charge.
I am a witness to this happening at Little Creek Va.

A Marine is a round of ammo. Point him in the right direction and there he goes.
An Army unit will say f***k this! Call in artillery and air support!



< Message edited by Halsey -- 6/4/2005 1:14:11 AM >

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Post #: 32
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 1:52:55 AM   
Micah Goodman

 

Posts: 197
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline 		My brother-in-Law is a retired Marine. The conventional wisdom of course is that Marines aren’t all that bright. The Corps decides that it would be a good idea for him to become a Drill Sergeant. In the Marine Corps apparently you go before a review board to determine if you are the good candidate for such an important position. He is asked a battery of questions by a board of officers and senior NCO’s. He answered all the questions correctly until he was asked, “Gunny, how many recruits can you fit in a trash dumpster?”

My Brother-in-Law thinks seriously for a second and answers, “That depends Sir.”

“That depends on what Gunny?”

“Do you mean whole recruits, or in pieces.”

After a stunned silence the officer continues, “The correct answer Gunny, is I wouldn’t put recruits in a dumpster.”

They seriously considered putting him in counseling as being unstable. They didn’t but they did permanently flag is record as being mentally unfit to train recruits. So he got exactly what he wanted. He was never again considered for recruit training. Marines aren’t as dumb as they are made out to be, but they sure are a sneaky conniving lot.

But back on topic, they reason that Marine officers are more aggressive is that there whole reason for being is shock troops for limited engagements. The Army takes a longer view of engagements. Slow and steady wins the race as it were. Being ex Army the one thing the Marine Corps does that I wish the Army did was to consider every Marine a rifleman first and their individual MOS (military occupation specialty a.k.a., job) second. The only people the Army even half heartedly trains to shoot are its infantry types. Everyone else gets rudimentary training on how to shoot. But hay, training people to shoot costs money, and the Army would rather spend it on other things.

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 33
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 2:53:41 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Marines ARE tough hombres.

They will do things others wouldn't even dream of.
Training or programing? Could be a little of both.

Bottom line is, different branches have opposite combat doctrines.
The Marines think short term deployments. The Army thinks long term deployments.
That's why these troops usually don't mix very well.

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Post #: 34
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 3:04:05 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I spent considerable time on Army bases while in the Corps. I went to Ft Sill for survey school (I was top in class with 98.6 and was promoted to Cpl as a reward but too be fair I had been pony'd by Gunner King for over a year before going to the school (Gunner is what Marines call Warrent Officers)
And after I became party chief I surveyed Ft Bragg. I carried control down "Longstreet" if your ever there find the monuments (cement squres with inverted shell cases where the primer is the plumb point) I put my name and the other party crews name on every one of them. Was in '77' I also surveyed all the arty ranges there.
I never had a problem with the Army. (I have two sisters 1 retired after 26 years in Army the other is still in and married to a soldier)
The only point of conflict for me was bowling. We used to play for beers.
The barracks were nicer and the food was better.
But we did sing "Doggie in the window" when ever we drove by a formation of soldiers.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 35
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 3:07:45 AM   
Halsey

 

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I will say, if there's going to be tough opposition. Send the Marines in first.
It makes it easier on us Army pukes later.

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Post #: 36
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 6:59:33 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami


The barracks were nicer and " the food was better."



You did this in '77 ??...I deros'd in '76..I knew it!!.The bastards were saving the good stuff for me to leave!!!!!

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Post #: 37
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 7:07:33 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, f you had ever had to eat Marine chow you would have liked the Army chow better.
The best thing I ever heard anyone ever say about Marine Corps chow was
"It will make a turd"

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 38
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 8:21:51 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, f you had ever had to eat Marine chow you would have liked the Army chow better.
The best thing I ever heard anyone ever say about Marine Corps chow was
"It will make a turd"


We never had a gedunk either!

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Post #: 39
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 7:01:25 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Army chow is pretty good. My old reserve unit had meal tickets for the local buffet.
The unit was too small to have their own mess. We used them at Red Lobster once.

They believe the philosophy that an army marches on it's stomach.

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Post #: 40
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 7:44:50 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Yes but the soldiers stomach should weigh less then his pack

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Post #: 41
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 8:28:45 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Yes but the soldiers stomach should weigh less then his pack

Young soldiers and old soldiers are still soldiers,it's just that the young soldiers wear their packs on their backs.

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Post #: 42
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/4/2005 10:12:01 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Panama was an example of difference in training, the Army would surround buildings if a sniper fired from it and then level it with artillery if it didnt stop. The Marines would assault and neutralize the sniper.

And Iraq I is an example of what the marine reputation is worth in Combat. Saddam Hussein kept numerous Divisions facing the sea because Marines were out there, they didnt even move when the burm was breached, they stayed ready cause they KNEW the Marines were gonna land.

Also in Desert Shield, the first Army units to arrive in Saudia Arabia couldnt support themselves, they had no ammo and no supplies, the Marines arrived with 30 days supply and ammo and were feeding and suppling the Army till it got its logistics in place.

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Post #: 43
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 4:55:26 AM   
Halsey

 

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Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		The reason the Army can't support itself is because of it's downsizing.
They could only have so many troops. So they opted to keep combat soldiers.
Most of the support requirements went to the Reseve and NG units.
That's why Reserves and NG are constantly being called up in any circumstance.

In the old days, these units would only be called upon for a major conflict.
Nowadays the Army can't support itself without these guys.

This was the main reason I got out of the Reseves in '98'.
My unit was ready to deploy to Bosnia for the third time!
Screw that! I put my time in already.

< Message edited by Halsey -- 6/5/2005 4:57:52 AM >

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Post #: 44
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 5:27:10 AM   
Ddog

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 2/17/2005
From: Cincinnati, OH
Status: offline 		I have a friend at work that has a son currently serving in the Marines. 2/2 Easy Company. He was in Fallujah and the other hot spots a while back. He has some intresting stories.....one I think sums up this thread. They were on patrol and he overheard a reporter asking a Iraqi man if he liked the Marines or Army better. The man replied "I like Army, Marines boom boom boom all time shooting."

BTW the kid has to go back to Iraq later this month.

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Post #: 45
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 5:31:00 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Wish him luck, and tell him to keep his head down.

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Post #: 46
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 11:45:05 AM   
Dumgrunt

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/8/2005
From: Virginia, U.S.
Status: offline 		The Marine Corps is a cult

I went to a supervisors school recently and each student had to identify a great leader that had influenced thier leadership style and why.

The class was diverse, four of us were jarhead veterens. There were a few veterans of other services as well.

The other students identified politicians, generals, sports heros and a variety of other people they had read about or studied. But no one actually knew the person they named.

Us four Marines, each identified a Marine Officer by name that we had directly served under and been mentored by. For abilities we had observed with our own eyes. We were the only ones that did this. We all did, without collusion.


That is the greatness of Marine Leadership.

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Post #: 47
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 9:20:45 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		If I were to name Marines that had a big influence on me, they would be senior enlisted...I knew a few good officers but none of them made the impression on me like the gunnies and first shirts.

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RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 9:35:07 PM   
Graycompany


Posts: 511
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline 		I would have to agree with rogue, although I did have a Captain that was a mustang that I would have to say was a fine commander.

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Post #: 49
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 10:48:27 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		It's always the NCO's who get the job done.

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RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/5/2005 11:50:03 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, CWO4 Leslie King was my hero. I got into a bit of trouble at Lejeune and had Captains mast. I was sitting in front of the CO's office when Gunner King went in.
When he came out he told me to follow him. I had been transfered.
I learned later he had went to the CO looking for another body and been told there were none to spare. He asked about me and was told "You don't want him, he is a sh# bird"
But he took me anyway.
After I had been working for him for about six months he told me "I heard you were a SB but your doing fine stay squared away"
Then I was sent to Ft Still and finshed fisrt in class. He had me promoted. A year later I made Sgt. I had enlisted at 17 and was a Sgt before my 21st birthday.
Gunner King wanted me to go up for Warrent after I made Staff Sgt but he was found to have cancer. (smoked for 33 years and 4 years after he quit found he had cancer in his stomach) He retired and passed away less then 2 years later. He had done more then 30 years in Corps.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 51
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/6/2005 12:28:28 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		There was a Staff Sargeant Platt when I was in arty. He was they new ammo chief. I had been acting ammo chief since Sgt Martinez left. SSgt Platt came in...I didn't know he was with the unit for two weeks (that's irritating). It wasn't until I had to order CS tabs for training that I learned it had already been done. It pissed me off.

Other things happened and short story is that me and him were in a pissing contest for the first 6 months or so. We didn't agree on anything. One day, we sat down and talked for a long while. We were cool after that. He saw where I was coming from and I saw his side. We still didn't agree on much but he is one of the two Marines that I respect the most from my time in the Corps.

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There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

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Post #: 52
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/6/2005 5:20:17 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Okay,here's a curve ball.
We can all swap yarns,and we know it goes with the territory.We still respect each other as vets.
It's been my experience in civvy life that as soon as some sonovabitch finds out I'm a veteran,he goes out of his way to either prove he's a macho man,or that he has power over me,endowed by the planet Krypton,or whatever..
They also seem to have the same tired speech memorized:"I wanted to go,but I had a
1.Bad back
2.Bad feet
3.Bad acne
4.Bad acting coach
5.Bad halitosis
6(Lament of your choice).
I know there are some people that don't want to serve,and there are some who wanted to but really could not..I understand that.But *WHY* do they take their guilt out on the veterans??.Why do they feel compelled to tell us why they were "not there"????
I really don't give a damn why they were not there..
The speech from Shakespeares' "Henry Vth" really does say it all for me, and I admit I do have some lack of patience when non-vets seemingly take their personal problems out on vets..
I wish I could say I feel better now,having said this,but it won't change anything,and will likely just kill the thread.....
Vets,there is nothing I would not do for you.
Civilians,There is nothing I was not prepared to give for you......

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Post #: 53
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/6/2005 6:00:04 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		amen (old hebrew word meaning: so be it...or let it be so...seemed oddly fitting )

< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 6/6/2005 6:04:47 AM >

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There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


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Post #: 54
RE: Marine leaders more aggresive than army ones - 6/7/2005 2:57:20 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		I've only run in to that circumstance with rednecks. You know the ones I mean. The ones that didn't have the balls to go themselves.

When they started the "don't ask, don't tell" policy it got really bad.
All I could say to those guys was that fags didn't want to be in the units that I was in.
They would've been lynched.

My current workplace is about 75% vets.
War stories at every lunch break.


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Post #: 55
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