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RE: The first carriers battle

 
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RE: The first carriers battle - 11/17/2005 4:35:40 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		Again this is just my opinion, and your entitled to do what you please, this is a game after all.

Sending SEAC Chinese makes some sense, but the idea of a horde of 50+ Chinese corps with 15,000 AP pouring out of Karachi to reconquer Asia is just a little too bizzaire for me.

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Post #: 601
RE: The first carriers battle - 11/17/2005 6:51:02 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I see your point Tom

My feeling right now is that if he reassing units and sends them out of China, I need something to counter balance it.
Theoretically it shouldn't be possible, because if you lost China you also lost her Army. I do however believe that the game does not properly represents China's situation.
I really do not want to diminish Hoepner skills (we all know he is an excellent one), but I find that conquering China is a bit too 'doable'. I managed once in an older PBEM in just 4 months. And it looks I'm doing that again in a new one vs. Taglia. It's only March, and I still have plenty of time.
On the other hand I failed twice vs. GH. I feel something is wrong. You play the Japs right, you get China. It shouldn't work like that.
My main mistake has been Chengtu, but I would have lost regardless. China cannot counter the surrounding movements of Japan. Eventually Chinese units are isolated and destroyed.

Therefore I believe that PPs expenditure for Chinese units is a reasonable balancing factor.
Anyway, so far I'm only attacking with Indian and British units.

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RE: The first carriers battle - 11/17/2005 8:11:40 PM   
Taglia


Posts: 115
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Status: offline 		Huh? U re conquering what? I will make you spit blood for each city you take

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RE: The first carriers battle - 11/17/2005 11:28:57 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taglia

Huh? U re conquering what? I will make you spit blood for each city you take


It's not like I have many more cities to conquer in China

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1943!!!! - 11/17/2005 11:51:00 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 1st, 1943

1943 is here!! I made it! I cannot believe it. It seems I’ve been waiting forever to get here. It feels real good. I could even loose a couple of CVs and still feel good.

IBC
Churchill with the New Years greetings also sent me a request for 1 CV and 2 DDs to send back to England. I’m afraid the old fart will have to do without the CV. No way I’m letting a CV go now.
This is postponing the Chinese reassignment issue by over one month, at least. It takes a while to collect 2.000 PPs.
Mandalay has been captured on the 31st and the 254th Indian Tank Brigade is now approaching Meiktila, followed by infantry, support units and more tanks.
It appears one lone Japanese unit is garrisoning the city. All my bombers have been ordered to wipe them away.
They’ll run back to their beloved Emperor faster than light.
The 13th Indian Bde is moving to secure Lashio to the East.
Magwe will be taken care by the echelon incoming from Akyab.
Soon the entire Burma will be back in British hands.

AUSTRALIA – NG
The heavies are hitting hard on Daly, I assume that the Japs are starting to feel the pressure on the Australian supply level.

PACIFIC
Nukufetau is being heavily reinforced.

OVERALL SITUATION
The Navy is in great shape and now I can start using it with the support of P-38’s. I have (17) operational BBs and (1) BC, plus the West Virgina at 11 sys dmg. She was at 99 after PH attack!
The air force is also in great shape. Fiji’s area is proving a great training ground. Just what I needed for the Pacific fighters.
The only area were I’m still way inferior is the ground power. Japanese divisions are fearsome. It takes an awful lot of Allied ones to beat them.

I’m somewhat frustrated by the fact that GH has been refusing to engage everywhere. I haven’t used the P-38 once since they’ve become available.
I believe that he’ll soon be forced into battle. I hope I’ll be able to choose where and when.





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RE: The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies - 11/18/2005 5:14:40 AM   
BlackSunshine


Posts: 366
Joined: 11/22/2002
Status: offline 		What a great read! This is one of the few AAR's I've actually not only read the entire thing, but enjoyed. I haven't even read the other half (GH's version) I'm afraid it will ruin things for me.

I do have a question though... The map is great, exactly where do I get this map mod? Will it work for the default scenarios too? I'm not sure that this is scenario #15, you didnt specify at the onset.

Best of luck with this war, I'll be following along.

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Post #: 606
RE: The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies - 11/18/2005 7:21:18 AM   
Andrew Brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine
I do have a question though... The map is great, exactly where do I get this map mod? Will it work for the default scenarios too? I'm not sure that this is scenario #15, you didnt specify at the onset.


You can find the map here.

The scenario is a modified version of scenario 15 for use with the map - the scenario number is 115. Only scenarios modified or made for the map can be used with it. The scenarios are also available from my WitP website scenario page.

Andrew

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RE: The Italian Job (2) - Comments from the Allies - 11/18/2005 11:53:49 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

What a great read! This is one of the few AAR's I've actually not only read the entire thing, but enjoyed. I haven't even read the other half (GH's version) I'm afraid it will ruin things for me.

I do have a question though... The map is great, exactly where do I get this map mod? Will it work for the default scenarios too? I'm not sure that this is scenario #15, you didnt specify at the onset.

Best of luck with this war, I'll be following along.






This kind or replies ... I love them!!!

Thanks BlackSunshine, I really appreciate it
As to the map, AB has been faster then me.
IMHO AB's map is the way to go with WitP. I still have ongoing PBEM's with the stock map (much improved by SubChaser), but I wouldn't start any new game without Andrew's map.
Just remember to put a house rule on Australia

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Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 3:12:46 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 5th, 1943

IBC
Meiktila, Lashio and Tang Gyi have been recaptured.
Tang Gyi by a small platoon of the elite 1st Marine Para Bn, which has been paradropped from Myitkyina to avoid wasting a month on the trail from Meiktila.
Tons of engineers are on their way to Burma, airfield building up is already under way. Soon Burma will be the new staging area for the RAF.

PACIFIC
I’ve grounded the two VR squadrons carried by the CVE Nassau.
They’ve been brought up to their maximum size (54). The VR-1F, equipped with F4F-4 has been split in three units, (18) each. They’ll soon begin training from Suva.
I’ll use one section on the CVE Long Island: (16) capacity.
I intend to use the CVE Nassau – (28) capacity - as a light carrier. I’ll equip her with a (24) Corsair’s squadron as soon as I’ll get them.
I’ll then be able to field (5) CVE’s with high exp pilots, Corsair’s and Avenger’s. They should be able to give the Japs some headaches.

I’m getting the first landing crafts: LCI and LST.


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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 3:24:01 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 6th, 1943

IBC
New bombers will soon be on the line.
Today the Chinese 9th CBS, previously equipped with the old SB-2c, has been upgraded to B-25J.
I’ll soon have (5) Chinese bomber squadrons with some real punching power.
The newly arrived No. 194 Squadron RAF, equipped with Hudson I, has been upgraded to Liberators VI.
Meanwhile scores of Wellingtons, Beauforts, Liberators and Fortresses are bombing the hell out of the Japanese LCU’s between Rangoon and Moulmein.
Today the 21st and 55th divisions have been hit by several waves of Allied bombers.
Within a couple of days the march southbound will resume and the siege of Rangoon will begin.
There’ll be no quarter for the yellow invaders!


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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 4:49:35 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 7th, 1943

“Operation Rise and Shine” is slowly being assembled, but it’ll take at least another month.

What really puzzles me is the lack of fight that GH has recently been putting up.
I don’t understand his retreat from Burma.
He never tried to challenge my air force, not once. Japan air force is nowhere to be seen over Burma. He did not try to stop my land force, not at the river crossings not by taking advantage of base fortifications. And now he is running from Rangoon too.
While I understand that he thinks (and he is probably right) that he no longer has the upper hand in the skies (we don’t know for sure because we haven’t actually fought), where is he going to stop retreating?
I mean we know Japan looses air supremacy at a certain point, but that doesn’t mean that you have to give up on ground too.
In China I lost air control from day one. I still own (5) cities and it took him 12 months to get Chungking. When you attack you must have air superiority, but you can defend for quite a long time without it.
Once I’ll be in Rangoon I’ll have a size 9-9 base. From there I’ll be able to threaten the whole Indo-China and I’ll start for Sumatra. It’s only January ’43.
I know GH has always a plan, but this one I don’t get. Why does he not fight?!?
I’m almost sure that at least some of his carriers are no longer on the front line, I can see his Navy planes training there.

I guess I’ll see. I’m enjoying this new tactical movement freedom, but I’d like some fight too.


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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 5:03:05 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

PACIFIC
I’ve grounded the two VR squadrons carried by the CVE Nassau.
They’ve been brought up to their maximum size (54). The VR-1F, equipped with F4F-4 has been split in three units, (18) each. They’ll soon begin training from Suva.
I’ll use one section on the CVE Long Island: (16) capacity.
I intend to use the CVE Nassau – (28) capacity - as a light carrier. I’ll equip her with a (24) Corsair’s squadron as soon as I’ll get them.
I’ll then be able to field (5) CVE’s with high exp pilots, Corsair’s and Avenger’s. They should be able to give the Japs some headaches.


I don't think it is possible to use a VR unit as a fighting unit. I may be wrond as I hadn't played Allied in WITP for more than one year and never played them much but IIRC what was written on this form VR unit fly no CAP or so.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 5:14:48 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
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From: Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks Admiral

I didn't know that.

Once they are trained I'll try to fly them from the deck and see what happens.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 5:16:23 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Ups!

I just noticed you said as a fighting unit, in general.

I can already tell you that from Suva they are flying ground attack missions (unless I confuse them in the group).
I'll ground all the others to make sure that they are indeed flying.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 5:41:53 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		Not to be a nitpick, but don't think that corsairs were ever capable of flying ops from a CVE sized carrier?

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 5:55:37 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Not to be a nitpick, but don't think that corsairs were ever capable of flying ops from a CVE sized carrier?


Hey String

I have no idea either.

We have already seen quite a bunch of things not possible IRL but doable in WitP and the other way around.
A pertinent example would be the Japanese CVE's, as far as I know Japanese CVE's were not used for flying operation, but only as planes 'carriers'. While in WitP they are usually to be found in baby KB.

Anyway, first I'll check if the VR flies.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 6:41:07 PM   
String


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Not to be a nitpick, but don't think that corsairs were ever capable of flying ops from a CVE sized carrier?


Hey String

Japanese CVE's were used for flying ops, specifically convoy ASW employing kates. I can't be sure but i think the Kates were used as CAP aircraft trying to intercept enemy search planes too.



I have no idea either.

We have already seen quite a bunch of things not possible IRL but doable in WitP and the other way around.
A pertinent example would be the Japanese CVE's, as far as I know Japanese CVE's were not used for flying operation, but only as planes 'carriers'. While in WitP they are usually to be found in baby KB.

Anyway, first I'll check if the VR flies.



The japanese CVE's were used for flying operations. Specifically convoy ASW defence with Kates.

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Post #: 617
RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 7:08:44 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
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Status: offline 		Well in RL most landings in DEI were covered by AVs flying Jakes and Petes on interceptor role (at least in part).... In WITP myself I use CVE to cover convoys (loaded with Zeroes) in an unhistorical role but I won't use them with KB most of the time.

By the way from my own experience and many readings on this forum it seems to me that many times the baby KB had been defeated by Allied LBA.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 7:22:52 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


By the way from my own experience and many readings on this forum it seems to me that many times the baby KB had been defeated by Allied LBA.


that, or worse




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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 7:28:26 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I dare say that we agree on the fact that in WitP Japanese CVEs are used way differently than in RL.
Quite some diffrence between ASW patrol and Zero's on CAP.

I have no problem with Japanese CVE's used 'improperly', but I'm going to do that too.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/18/2005 7:55:29 PM   
canadaexile

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 10/26/2005
From: Halifax Canada
Status: offline 		I have been reading this forum for the past hour or so. What an interesting read. As I have expected all along, WITP is a better game than UCV.(yes I am still playing that, and still very badly). I have always enjoyed reading the AAR's. This is even better! I am glad to hear that other people still make mistakes and 'forget' to do things, resulting in death and distruction! I would just like to say that I believe that you should just carry on with the game and try to recover. Well that is my thoughts anyway on the matter, novice and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/20/2005 12:56:52 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
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From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: canadaexile

I have been reading this forum for the past hour or so. What an interesting read. As I have expected all along, WITP is a better game than UCV.(yes I am still playing that, and still very badly). I have always enjoyed reading the AAR's. This is even better! I am glad to hear that other people still make mistakes and 'forget' to do things, resulting in death and distruction! I would just like to say that I believe that you should just carry on with the game and try to recover. Well that is my thoughts anyway on the matter, novice and all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Thanks
Don't worry, there's no way I'll give up now.

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RE: Rangoon recaptured! - 11/20/2005 12:59:45 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 11th, 1943

IBC
Rangoon is back in British hands!
CW troops entered the city this morning and reclaimed it without a single shot fired. Japan keeps running.
The High Command is astonished - and hugely pleased - by this lack of fighting spirit. Where are the proud Samurai’s? How about the Emperor glory?
It has become a running race. Maybe the Emperor will grant a medal to the fastest general.
Previously unthinkable opportunities are now available. It’s a whole new scenario. January ’43 and the whole Burma is back in Allied hands!!
Everybody was expecting a long a tough fight southbound, this is just great news.
Soon Rangoon will be the heart of the new British offensive. Troops, supplies, ships and planes will soon flood into the city.
Meanwhile the Japanese athletes are running from Moulmein. My bombers are happily waving them goodbye … hundreds of them.
Since it feels quite bad letting them go without even the time for a meal together, General Alexander is thinking of a way to meet them on their way, just to kiss them goodbye! The elite men of the 1st Marine Para Bn may once again come in handy.
True to this new Japanese sport, Port Blair’s garrison has also fled. They are probably practicing triathlon.



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RE: Rangoon recaptured! - 11/20/2005 1:00:38 AM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I forgot the map




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RE: Rangoon recaptured! - 11/20/2005 12:30:18 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		January 12th, 1943

IBC
I’ve upgraded one squadron of Wirraway’s to the new Boomerang II. Once you upgrade to Boomerang you can’t go back, you can only go up to Spitfire.
I have no idea how they perform, but I want to see the plane top . Also they have a good range (4-6) and it’ll be useful to finish their training. They are still at (74) exp.
In a couple of turns Moulmein will fall too and the first base force will reach Rangoon.
It’ll be interesting to see what the Japanese Imperial Command has decided to do about Bangkok. It’ll be well within strike range of Rangoon. Will the Japs fight to defend it or will they keep running away?
One important decision I have to make is about the next move. I’m yet undecided about two possible approaches: by land or by sea.
By land is slower but safer, by sea it’s faster but riskier. First I’ll try to evaluate his willingness to contend the airspace. If he does fight I have to understand the strength ratio. We haven’t fought in a long time and I don’t know how well/bad my P-38’s are on escort and LRCAP.
I’m confident playing defense, the Spit’s are good and soon I’ll have some Corsair’s too. It’s on the attack side that I have no idea.

PACIFIC
I can confirm that the VR squadrons can fly offensive operations, at least from land bases. The VR’s F4F upgrade only to FM-2 and F6F. I’ll later on check about carrier based operations.
The first F4F squadron has reached (80) exp and has been assigned to the CVE Nassau.
CV Essex and CVE Sangamon will soon be in PH. Where (3) more carriers and combat vessels are being upgraded.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first – very cool – Liberator VI in action over Moulmein





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RE: Request for suggestion - 11/20/2005 1:18:04 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Since I’m getting, quite unexpectedly, all the China Command units back in Karachi and since GH is not allowed - by house rules - to take China units or Kwantung units out of their respective areas, I thought to propose GH the following house rule.

China Command units can only stay in India, if I want to move them out I have to spend PPs to reassign them to other HQ’s.

What do you guys think? Should I make the proposal?



greetings...

forgive me, i'm not informed: Yours house rule restricting Japanese from moving divisions from China unless PP are paid, right?

Anyway, you should be careful what you going to do with Chinese, IMHO. Can't imagine Mao's troops fighting together with white imperialists in "colonial theatres" like is Burma or Malaya while is China occupied

Usually i don't include "political" view in game but this is an exception. It is clearly why

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/20/2005 1:23:21 PM   
pauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: String


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


By the way from my own experience and many readings on this forum it seems to me that many times the baby KB had been defeated by Allied LBA.


that, or worse






That's just don't fair! I want to forget it!!!!!!

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/20/2005 1:30:07 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Not to be a nitpick, but don't think that corsairs were ever capable of flying ops from a CVE sized carrier?


Hey String

I have no idea either.

We have already seen quite a bunch of things not possible IRL but doable in WitP and the other way around.
A pertinent example would be the Japanese CVE's, as far as I know Japanese CVE's were not used for flying operation, but only as planes 'carriers'. While in WitP they are usually to be found in baby KB.

Anyway, first I'll check if the VR flies.


hi, not a fair deal (IMO) There wasn't Corsair on CVs before 1944....

Don't be suprised if GH puts Jacks on his CVs too.. of course, it's uncomparable, Corsairs will eat all of them...

anyway just my thoughts... great AAR

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/20/2005 4:07:52 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Hi pauk

Yes, house rules do not allow Chinese and Kwantung units to leave their areas unless reassigned.
I'm going to treat Chinese units the same way. They won't leave Karachi unless reassigned.

I don't think this game is very historical anyway, under so many point of views.
Hence if it's doable, I'll put Corsair's on CVE's. I don't mind if he puts Jacks on his carriers.

It doesn't look like we are going to fight anyway. He keeps retreating. How's that historical?
Japan retreating from Burma without even trying to fight? No way

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that this is not a simulation (just to name a few examples: Australia, Indian Pond, massed aircrafts, massed armies with no stacking limits, DS, ...). It's a game, we've been handling it this way for the past year.
I'll stick to the house rules, but beside those I'll do whatever the game allows me to.

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RE: Northern Burma recaptured - 11/20/2005 4:36:44 PM   
pauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

Hi pauk

I don't think this game is very historical anyway, under so many point of views.
Hence if it's doable, I'll put Corsair's on CVE's. I don't mind if he puts Jacks on his carriers.


well, you don't need that, you are going to win anyway. Of course you don't mind if he puts Jacks on his carriers simply because Corsairs are overpowered and you know you going to eat him

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

It doesn't look like we are going to fight anyway. He keeps retreating. How's that historical?
Japan retreating from Burma without even trying to fight? No way



Well, we learn that from our allied opponents which invented Sir Robin defence early in the war (subs transport, evacuating BF and that stuff)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that this is not a simulation (just to name a few examples: Australia, Indian Pond, massed aircrafts, massed armies with no stacking limits, DS, ...). It's a game, we've been handling it this way for the past year.
I'll stick to the house rules, but beside those I'll do whatever the game allows me to.


I'm totally understand your attitude. IMHO the both of you run into problems when (both of you) started massive air campaign (night bombing is still overated, IMHO). Well, it's your's game and you know better than me what is allowed and acceptable for both sides. Don't get me wrong, i'm not "Jap fanboy" here, this was only my 2 liras

Sorry for going OT, i will back to reading this enjoyable AAR.

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