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Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 7:12:49 PM

ARMCHGNL

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/11/2005
Status: offline

Is this a good game for a beginner? I'm looking for a good tbs game that is relatively easy to learn. I purchased the Operational Art of War a few years ago and quickly became overwhelmed

. I don't have time for steep learning curves - I'm actually typing this one-handed with my 10 mo old son in the other arm. Please help me before I give up on this hobby.

Post #: 1

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 7:33:26 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi,

Flashpoint Germany is an easy game to learn, but does have depth that requires some learning to master. It's very easy to pick up and play though and comes with tutorials.

Here are a few more easy to learn suggestions from our Store that might work for you:

Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar
Gary Grigsby's World At War (play with the computer controlling production and supply)
Gates of Troy (if you liked Civilization, you'll "get" this one)
Massive Assault (if you like turn-based Sci-Fi)
Supremacy (also turn-based Sci-Fi)

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to ARMCHGNL)

Post #: 2

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 8:00:13 PM

jeffery88

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/21/2003
From: Malaysia
Status: offline

Hi ,

Flashpoint Germany is much easier to get into than Operational Art of War ....

It is good game for beginner to start , easy to pick up but of course like any other good TBS game , it will take a while for you to master the game ....after you manage to beat the Al ..there are human to play with..so this game will last you a long long time...

Play the tutorial , read the manual and play few scenarios , ask questions ..bottom line is keep playing ....

The support for this game is very strong and the patch 1.03 have improve this game tremendously...

Hope this help

Cheers

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 3

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 8:43:50 PM

IronManBeta

Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

Thanks Jeffery88 for the kind words. Yes indeeed, this game was designed to be relatively easy for newcomers to get into. I'm not the only one who has tired I think of needlessly complicated games that require way too much work to get results. This one was designed to be easy to get going on. Mastering it of course takes a little work but I believe it compares well to most other games.

Depending on your subject matter preferences, some of the other choices mentioned by Erik might do you well too.

Have fun, cheers, Rob.

(in reply to jeffery88)

Post #: 4

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 9:20:09 PM

ARMCHGNL

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/11/2005
Status: offline

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. World at War or FPG? Which one would you recommend for a beginner? I was originally looking at World at War, but I read a couple of reviews that seemed to imply that it was fairly complex. I was a huge fan of Panzer General I (will someone please make a modern version of that game), but I'm interest in any tbs wargame that is challenging (good ai) and isn't overly complex.

(in reply to IronManBeta)

Post #: 5

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 10:13:03 PM

IronManBeta

Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

There was an interesting discussion back around Jan 30 about the relative complexity of various Matrix games. 1 = dead easy, 10 = monster game.

At the risk of not quite getting it right the thinking seemed to be:
War in the Pacific = 10
Uncommon Valor = 8
Korsun Pocket / Battles in Normandy = 8 (or maybe more like a 6 to begin)
Steel Panthers = 6
World at War (in beta then) = 6
Highway to the Reich = 6 (I would rate it higher than 6 myself)
Steel Panthers World at War = 5
Campaigns on the Danube = 5
Flashpoint Germany = 4 or 5
Tin Soldiers: Alexander = 3
Gates of Troy = 2

Flashpoint Germany has a few 'fog of war' options in the game setup. I would suggest that you play with everything revealed and no staff restrictions while you learn the game. That makes it easy. Then crank up the fog of war settings and you have a completely different experience waiting for you!

Cheers, Rob.

(in reply to ARMCHGNL)

Post #: 6

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/11/2005 10:58:14 PM

ARMCHGNL

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Joined: 6/11/2005
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Thanks Robert. If I download this game, can I burn a copy for backup? Is the online manual readable?

BTW. I am truly impressed with the level of support here.

(in reply to IronManBeta)

Post #: 7

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 12:01:37 AM

AlvinS

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

If I download this game, can I burn a copy for backup? Is the online manual readable?

Yes you can, and it is highly recommended. I also copy and past the serial number into Word then print it out and slip it into the jewel case. You will need this serial number when you install/re-install the game, or when a patch comes out. Also register your game in the Members section of this website and they can retrieve the serial number for you should you lose it.

The online manual is in PDF format so you can read it online and switch back to the game. You can also print it out.

The support on this forum is awsome and Robert Crandall is very responsive to our wants and needs for this game. It is a great game for the beginner and veteran alike. You will pick it up quickly, but continue to discover new things as you play.

When you are ready for PBEM let me know and I will be happy to help you out.

Welcome.

_____________________________

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ---Mark Twain

Naval Warfare Simulations

AlvinS

(in reply to ARMCHGNL)

Post #: 8

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 12:59:44 AM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARMCHGNL

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. World at War or FPG? Which one would you recommend for a beginner?

Both are "easy to learn, hard to master" as they say. They are very different types of game though, so I'd base your decision on what you want to play rather than how complex or otherwise it is. FPG is a "pure" wargame, WaW isn't a "wargame" at all as I would define that term; its a turn-based strategy game based on WW2. The former involves a simulation (at a relatively simple level) of the actual decisions of, and tactics used by, a brigade/regimental commander in the real world. WaW, while simple to learn is a deep strategy game but it doesn't even attempt to "simulate" anything. Sure, more and better tanks is good as in the real world, but to play WaW well you need to "master" its own gameplay not real-world grand strategy!

If you don't really know what you want, I'd plump for WaW of those two as its hard to imagine any reasonably intelligent gamer not enjoying it. FPG, though, is a better introduction to wargames proper, and will stand you in good stead if you move on to other titles of that type, like the Decisive Battles of WW2 series.

Whatever you do, download and play about with Steel Panthers: World at War. The basic version (there is a pay-for version with several "mega-campaigns" as well) is FREE, and while a different style of game from FPG, it will give you a good idea of whether you will like wargames or not.

P.S. Not one of your choices I know, but if I personally was recommending one game only from the Matrix stable for a "beginner", it would be Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 6/12/2005 1:02:19 AM >

(in reply to ARMCHGNL)

Post #: 9

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 1:07:53 AM

Poliorcetes

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I'd have to disagree on complexity, I think WaW is very complex compared to FPG. WaW took me many games to figure out all the mechanics, and I still haven't played it as germany yet. FPG was quite easy once you got used to the time delay of the orders. FPG only has 1 main screen to learn, while WaW has 2-3 (The research part is pretty obvious). And don't even mention the supply rules for WaW, they are good but complicated to learn.

Frankly FPG is very simple, you only have a few units (tanks, non-tanks, artillery, and Hq units). Fire some artillery and set some move orders and you are done with a turn.

Matt

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 10

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 3:14:07 AM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
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From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Poliorcetes

I'd have to disagree on complexity, I think WaW is very complex compared to FPG. WaW took me many games to figure out all the mechanics, and I still haven't played it as germany yet. FPG was quite easy once you got used to the time delay of the orders. FPG only has 1 main screen to learn, while WaW has 2-3 (The research part is pretty obvious). And don't even mention the supply rules for WaW, they are good but complicated to learn.

Frankly FPG is very simple, you only have a few units (tanks, non-tanks, artillery, and Hq units). Fire some artillery and set some move orders and you are done with a turn.

Matt

True, FPG is definetly easy to learn. It was actually made as an entry level wargame. However, to master it it takes some times. The rules and gameplay is easy to acess.

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Post #: 11

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 11:09:56 AM

jeffery88

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/21/2003
From: Malaysia
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Yes WAW defintely is not an easy wargame ...if you very new to wargames , you might get overhelm ....reading the manual is almost a MUST ..before start to play the game ..

As a newbie , always try to start a wargame with the smallest scenario , easy setting , as few units as possible..to get you into the mood ..

having saying that , I am very much newbie myself :)

(in reply to Marc von Martial)

Post #: 12

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 9:45:37 PM

ARMCHGNL

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Joined: 6/11/2005
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Thanks again everyone. I bought FPG yesterday. I read a couple of the AAR's, and now I'm like a kid on Christmas day. I can't wait to start playing. I've always wanted to try war/strategy gaming. Hopefully, this game fits the bill.

Will the game come already patched (purchased cd from NWS), or will I still need to download v 1.03?

(in reply to jeffery88)

Post #: 13

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 10:09:30 PM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
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Erik would know. You can always get on the Matrix site and download the update. There is a patch to 103 in the works too. We had a bug slip through and fixed a couple issues related to win98/ME.

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OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

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Post #: 14

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 10:27:49 PM

jeffery88

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/21/2003
From: Malaysia
Status: offline

quote:

Thanks again everyone. I bought FPG yesterday. I read a couple of the AAR's, and now I'm like a kid on Christmas day. I can't wait to start playing. I've always wanted to try war/strategy gaming. Hopefully, this game fits the bill.

Will the game come already patched (purchased cd from NWS), or will I still need to download v 1.03?

You have made an excellent choice ..you will enjoy this game for many days to come ..

(in reply to ARMCHGNL)

Post #: 15

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/12/2005 10:33:36 PM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline

regarding your question about patched version or not, I don't know. But you can check version number when the game starts, there is a window indicating (in lower left corner) the version's number. Just check and if not 1.03, just DL it and install.

(in reply to jeffery88)

Post #: 16

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/15/2005 8:23:35 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline

OK, I am interested as well.

I recently played zillions of hours on SP II & III ( ask Wild Bill ;-) and some 100's hours on SPWAW. ( dont like WWII on the SP universum - dont ask why - I dont know either )

I run WitP since day 1 and UV as well. I wonder why both games are higher ranked then SP ( ok, they are a bit higher but not 4-5 points in a scale out of 10 ).

actually, WitP is my world and I cant live a day without it . However its time to look around a bit in the matrix universum

.
Question : Will a game which is rated above with a 4 satisfy me ? I just ask becasue maybe I will get bored very soon ? Maybe the scale above will have different values if I would know all the games and would make my own scale ?

thank you for your ideas !!

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Post #: 17

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/15/2005 8:48:07 PM

jeffery88

Posts: 24
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From: Malaysia
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Dear Oliver ,

Well if you can get into WitP , you can get into any wargame , man !!

I will rank WitP been the most difficult wargame to play

Ok about the ranking ..FPG was rank in terms of how easy to getting into the game ..this does not means that you could master this game in a short period and get bored very soon....definitely not ..

By the way , maybe you guide me into liking this WitP , it has been collecting dust on my shelf

< Message edited by jeffery88 -- 6/15/2005 8:50:05 PM >

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 18

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/15/2005 9:48:59 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffery88

Ok about the ranking ..FPG was rank in terms of how easy to getting into the game ..this does not means that you could master this game in a short period and get bored very soon....definitely not ..

By the way , maybe you guide me into liking this WitP , it has been collecting dust on my shelf

About the ranking : thats what I want to hear ! So FPG will suit me I think becasue I always liked the 80's when it comes to warfare ( favored time in SP II and SPIII ).

for witp I can give some ideas : dont get overhelmed by the big one, start with UV small scenarios. knowlwdge in games like harpoon will help. once you got a step in on small scenarios, you are ready for a campaign. take one step after another and dont think you can get in easily, you have to be patiently with yourself. the game is now 1 year old and the first 6 months had a steady learning courve and I am still learning. such a monster is never eat in a few seconds ;-) one big advise most players do wrong : be careful with your assests or you loose them. most players play aggressive wondering what happens then. the smart witp player kicks your butt without that you get knowledge of it.

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Post #: 19

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/16/2005 1:58:01 AM

wodin

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From: England
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WiTP is for single men and women.

Not for married men with kids.

If I was single I'd try it and most likely love it. As it is it needs far to much investment for me.

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Post #: 20

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/16/2005 3:19:45 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
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From: Newark, OH
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

WiTP is for single men and women.

Not for married men with kids.

If I was single I'd try it and most likely love it. As it is it needs far to much investment for me.

...or for men looking to become single...

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

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Post #: 21

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/18/2005 5:53:19 AM

cumminspuller

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/3/2005
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I just recently started playing FPG and am enjoying it very much. How would you guys rank HOI2? I have it tucked away in the drawer and it scares me everytime I open the manual. So detailed and indepth it seems.

Jason

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 22

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/18/2005 11:49:25 AM

haard

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cumminspuller

I just recently started playing FPG and am enjoying it very much. How would you guys rank HOI2? I have it tucked away in the drawer and it scares me everytime I open the manual. So detailed and indepth it seems.

Jason

Don't open the manual ;-)
HoI2 is actually quite easy to learn once you get going, try out playing Germany in 36 and you'll have plenty of time for mistakes (as long as you don't provoke the allies before -39)

(in reply to cumminspuller)

Post #: 23

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/18/2005 5:33:14 PM

jeffery88

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/21/2003
From: Malaysia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cumminspuller

I just recently started playing FPG and am enjoying it very much. How would you guys rank HOI2? I have it tucked away in the drawer and it scares me everytime I open the manual. So detailed and indepth it seems.

Jason

Want to sell your HOI 2 copy

?

HOI2 is not difficult , it just that to much details involve ..my advise is forget about those details ..just play the tutorial to understand the basic game play ..start playing and keep playing ..dont be afraid to make mistakes ..and learn from them...ask a lot of questions in the excellent FORUM....after a while you will find that ..hey those details are important to me ...

I still have to give WitP the title of champion in Difficult Wargames

(in reply to cumminspuller)

Post #: 24

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/20/2005 5:52:32 AM

cumminspuller

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Thank you gentleman. I am stuck on FPG right now. But I would not be able to fogive myself if I sold HOI2. It just looks so enjoyable. I will give it another shot after I get some more FPG under my belt.

Jason

(in reply to jeffery88)

Post #: 25

RE: Newbie...help please! - 6/20/2005 9:43:00 AM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cumminspuller

I just recently started playing FPG and am enjoying it very much. How would you guys rank HOI2? I have it tucked away in the drawer and it scares me everytime I open the manual. So detailed and indepth it seems.

I'd rank it right up there with sitting and watching paint dry (and I really don't fall into the "attention span of a goldfish" catagory). I only mention that in case you find yourself thinking on the same lines, so you know its not just you.

(in reply to cumminspuller)

Post #: 26