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RE: New revision of my map, Request For Comments. UPDATED 2005-08-05 new screenshots

 
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RE: New revision of my map, Request For Comments. UPDAT... - 8/6/2005 12:09:28 AM   
n818af

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: USA, Hong Kong
Status: offline 		Btw, can we add the air assets in Hong Kong for historic accuracy?
Note: They are wiped out by air raid on the first day, most likely from Canton. I did not verify the losses and number of Jap planes based in Canton on Dec 8th.

RAF Communications Flight
Hong Kong Station
- Hong Kong Flight Kai Tek, Kowloon
4x Vickers Vildebeest
3x Short Singapore Mk II
- Hong Kong Volunteer Defence Force Kai Tek, Kowloon
2x De Havilland Hornet Moth
2x Avro Cadet
1x Avro Tutor
- 715th Fleet Air Arm Squadron Kai Tek, Kowloon Lieutenant P.J.Milner-Barry
7x Supermarine Walrus Mk I

Source: http://www.go2war2.nl/nld_print.asp?paginaid=358

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 61
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 12:19:06 AM   
n818af

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: USA, Hong Kong
Status: offline
[[/quote]

I think the intent here is to strike a balance btw the game engine and history.

There are hundreds of rivers that were used as obstacles IRL that are not represented on the map.

[/quote]

I partially agree. That is really up to the designer; just my two cents.
Curious, can anyone tell me what is the reason of removing the river?

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 62
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 1:28:42 AM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n818af

I partially agree. That is really up to the designer; just my two cents.
Curious, can anyone tell me what is the reason of removing the river?


Andrew did not say. I suspect that now that the terrain is Urban (4x defense) that will provide for a longer lasting Hong Kong than the river which IRL didn't provide much in the way of stopping the Japanese.

(in reply to n818af)
Post #: 63
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 1:30:59 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n818af
I partially agree. That is really up to the designer; just my two cents.
Curious, can anyone tell me what is the reason of removing the river?


I do not currently intend to remove the river at HK. I am going to playtest the way I have HK set up now to see how tough it is. I want to see it fall at roughly the historical time in AI vs AI play. At the moment it falls much more quigkly, even with the river. If I have now made it too tough then I can either remove the river, change the terrain again (to mountain perhaps), or both, and try it again.

Regarding the way railwways are drawn. I considered cros-hatching but I thought that it would not be as visible on this map, especially in forest and cultivated hexes. Thick and thin black lines might be OK, but making the lines thicker may look odd. Or perhaps making the low capacity rail lines lighter (but not as light as roads), or a combination. To be honest I don't want to spend the time doing any of those right now. Maybe later (oe maybe someone else?).

Andrew

< Message edited by Andrew Brown -- 8/6/2005 1:31:23 AM >

_____________________________

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website


(in reply to n818af)
Post #: 64
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 3:57:06 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown
Regarding the way railwways are drawn. I considered cros-hatching but I thought that it would not be as visible on this map, especially in forest and cultivated hexes. Thick and thin black lines might be OK, but making the lines thicker may look odd. Or perhaps making the low capacity rail lines lighter (but not as light as roads), or a combination. To be honest I don't want to spend the time doing any of those right now. Maybe later (oe maybe someone else?).

Andrew


I am now thinking that I might redo the "low capacity" railways after all.

I am attaching a screenshot showing a "thin" style of low capacity railway symbol.

For those who are interested, please give me your opinion for which style to use: thicker black with white stripes (see example above) or thin black? (I won't do them as roads as I want them to be distinguishable). Place your votes in this thread...

Andrew





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website


(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 65
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 4:05:54 AM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		thin black for me Andrew.......as usual you are doing yeoman's work !

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(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 66
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 4:38:34 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Thin black looks good!

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Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 67
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 4:55:26 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		On the basis of eye fatigue..I kinda like the dashed rail for low capacity. It is also somehow more exotic and has a period feel (even if not quite accurate )

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(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 68
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 5:09:08 AM   
Lord_Calidor


Posts: 402
Joined: 3/25/2005
From: Rijeka, CRO
Status: offline 		Although both look very good, just for visibility purposes (in jungle/forest hexes it could be tough to distinguish thick from thin) I'm voting for dashed rail.

_____________________________

But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 69
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 5:10:44 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline 		50/50 so far. *sigh*...

_____________________________

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website


(in reply to Lord_Calidor)
Post #: 70
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 5:18:13 AM   
CobraAus


Posts: 2322
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Geelong Australia
Status: offline 		dashed rail gets my vote

Cobra Aus

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 71
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 6:37:44 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

50/50 so far. *sigh*...



Either is good for me....if I were you I would make a command decision....which ever will be easiest...they both look good....dashed may be easier to pick out at a glance.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 72
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 7:24:32 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I'm in favour of the lighter line/heavier line (I know, you're back to 50/50 now, sorry). Thanks for asking, though.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 73
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 10:02:28 AM   
Jaws_slith


Posts: 615
Joined: 1/11/2002
Status: offline 		I like it Thx for hard work.

< Message edited by Jaws43 -- 8/6/2005 7:53:10 PM >

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(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 74
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 2:15:44 PM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline 		Thin black lines, but whatever you decide will be fine with me. I just appreciate they work you have done on the map. You cannot be thanked enough for doing it.

< Message edited by Herrbear -- 8/6/2005 2:17:34 PM >

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 75
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 2:24:56 PM   
drw61


Posts: 894
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		I vote for the thick/thin rail lines, they provide the information and don't distract from the overall look of the map.
Thanks for all the hard work!

(in reply to Jaws_slith)
Post #: 76
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 5:17:43 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Not that I'm partial either way ...but for those proclaimed map afficinados out there I would suspect this is where AB got the idea for the dashed lines....

It is taken from a 1930's era map of Transportation Assets in China






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to drw61)
Post #: 77
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 7:57:39 PM   
Jaws_slith


Posts: 615
Joined: 1/11/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Not that I'm partial either way ...but for those proclaimed map afficinados out there I would suspect this is where AB got the idea for the dashed lines....

It is taken from a 1930's era map of Transportation Assets in China







Wow look at the scale of the map

B.t.w. if you want to use parts of a original maps than the whole map should be redrawn. At this moment the map is a sort of satellite view of the complete pacific area and have no link with a map at all.


But if someone has spare time



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(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 78
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 9:07:58 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

Wow look at the scale of the map


That was 1:10,000,000....close to what we're playing on. I also have access to China maps at 1:2,000,000.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Jaws_slith)
Post #: 79
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 10:12:26 PM   
Jaws_slith


Posts: 615
Joined: 1/11/2002
Status: offline 		Nice Great I have maps from 1:25000 and 50:000 (Some Europe countries) I saw up to 1:-750:000 but 1:10.000.000 beat the sh.. out of me.

Thx for info

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(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 80
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/6/2005 10:37:54 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaws43

Nice Great I have maps from 1:25000 and 50:000 (Some Europe countries) I saw up to 1:-750:000 but 1:10.000.000 beat the sh.. out of me.

Thx for info



1:10,000,000 is your typical atlas. By the way the map the above key was taken from can be found at:

http://map.huhai.net/

Sorry to have hijacked the thread AB...back to our regularly scheduled programming.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Jaws_slith)
Post #: 81
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/7/2005 12:05:11 AM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Sorry to have hijacked the thread AB...back to our regularly scheduled programming.


No worries.

The thin black lines are - currently - my preferred option. Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Andrew

_____________________________

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website


(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 82
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/8/2005 2:20:56 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Sorry to have hijacked the thread AB...back to our regularly scheduled programming.


No worries.

The thin black lines are - currently - my preferred option. Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Andrew


Good thinking! Looks much better! Gets my vote as well!


_____________________________


(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 83
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/9/2005 6:58:07 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		"Not that I'm partial either way ...but for those proclaimed map afficinados out there I would suspect this is where AB got the idea for the dashed lines....

It is taken from a 1930's era map of Transportation Assets in China"


Thanks, treespider, I see that there is some precedent for using the dashed lines. I still prefer it to be presented in another way, but this would make it easier to accept.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 84
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/13/2005 7:29:30 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		The French Frigate thread prompted me to post this. I recall just the other day looking at FFS versus Irau and was wondering how FFS rated a 0 (1) instead of 0 (O). If I could, Id push for it to be a 0(-2)... I'm sure that rating is from the original map, but what are opiniions on correcting this?

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 85
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/13/2005 2:58:19 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

The French Frigate thread prompted me to post this. I recall just the other day looking at FFS versus Irau and was wondering how FFS rated a 0 (1) instead of 0 (O). If I could, Id push for it to be a 0(-2)... I'm sure that rating is from the original map, but what are opiniions on correcting this?


When I first read the title of that thread I had visions of a Napoleonic French frigate firing broadsides at Midway...

For my scenarios, I was certain that I had downgraded FFS to air 0(0) already, but prompted by your question I checked and it is still 0(1). I will change it to 0(0) (It is already 0(0) in CHS).

Andrew

_____________________________

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website


(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 86
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/13/2005 5:51:11 PM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline 		I realize that this is late to bring up, but in looking and relooking at your map, the Broome-Derby area is connected only by a trail. The problem is that supply cannot travel more than 4 hexes on a trail. Not from the area, when these are shown as trails, I envision something like the Kokoda trail in New Guinea. If this was big enough for truck travel on packed dirt, I would think this should be a road.

The same even on the Burma road. Trail traffic is only 5 miles per day at max.

I love your map and cannot wait for the new version. As I run a slightly modified CHS, I would love for you to make a list of your new bases that include Airfield size, Port size, supplies and so forth so I can get a jump on my changes.

Thank you again for all your great work.

Oh, by the way, at some point when you have nothing to do I was wondering since it seems you are making thin black lines for the lower class rail lines, would you rethink your river size and maybe make those lines thinner also.

(in reply to Andrew Brown)
Post #: 87
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/13/2005 6:32:53 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Herrbear, the problem is in the WITP system. They have too great a difference between trails and roads. The grey roads that we see in WITP allow too fast of movement for many of these these tiny tracks (Kokoda, Burma/Ledo road, etc), but the trails restrict movement too greatly. I always felt that there should be four levels of road, adding a medium capacity road between the trail and the grey highway. Unfotunately, that isn't going to happen.

The road network in Australia was the original catalyst for Andrew to create his map, as the game map made it far too easy to travel to Australia's northwest teritories. The map Andrew created causes the player to resupply those towns by sea, which is much more realistic, so most of us are very happy with it.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Herrbear)
Post #: 88
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/13/2005 11:58:11 PM   
jrcar

 

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Seymour, Australia
Status: offline 		Herrbear,

the Kokoda track could not take trucks. It was foot only.

IRL Broome and Derby were supplied by sea even when not at war. The tracks that existed were to send supplies out from Broome/Derby to other inland areas. And for 6 months of the year the tracks are impassable anyway.

Cheers

Rob

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 89
RE: My two cents regarding Hong Kong hex - 8/14/2005 9:59:30 AM   
Herrbear


Posts: 883
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info. Do you guys have roads up there now?

(in reply to jrcar)
Post #: 90
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