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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 8:32:39 AM

JosephL

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I like marketing debates :) To me it is entertaining to see what the opinions of the general market are (that is you guys) vs. the opinions of the marketing people (ie: me.) Sometimes they are the same and sometimes they are very polar and very rarely black and white.

Anyway, much like a weird sociology project I don't want to interject too much "know-how" into this thread because I like seeing free-flowing creativity and opinion. If I say something is true it will affect people's posts. However, I also don't want to give the wrong impression about understanding the market place. So, I saw a trend in posting that may create a false belief, and here it is:

With regards to the young audience member: There has been a major shift in demographics from "when I was a kid" to the current market place. Always remember that the market is very dynamic and can change greatly over time, even over short periods of time. The days of "dad purchased this Axis and Allies game, lets try it out" are gone. The invention of "easier" forms of entertainment, coupled with the proliferation of information and technical knowledge have changed the teenager consumer. They are becoming less reliant on parents and trend towards performing research on items before purchase. This is best explained by understanding what type of good computer games and war games are. To an adult 50 - 100 dollars is a fair purchase but nothing bank-breaking. To a teenager a purchase of 50 - 100 dollars can be almost considered a "durable" item. This means teens would trend to doing competitive analysis and deep thinking before dropping the c-note on a game. (This does not apply when asking a parent for a game).

Sadly this means that the allure of war-games as "WE" (and I say we with quotes because technically I am too young to be generalized with the majority of the posters) knew that is gone. The market, however, is still there. Here's the reality: If you want to target the young audience you have to do it in the right way at the right time. The right way is HeroClix, a game designed to be the SIMPLIST of wargames, but absolutely and unequivocably a wargame by design. The fact is this game and games like it are going to be a very big help in the future of war-gaming. These HeroClix players are the future wargamers, as they tire of a simple game and want to move to something with a few more tactics and some more realism they will hopefully seek out war-games on a slightly higher level.

The market has changed, we can no longer specifically target the teen. It is too expensive and too risky. We can now leave that in the hands of other companies, and when the time comes for their fans to "Graduate" they will be ready for a better war-game, with a credit card in hand and no inhibitions about spending 50 - 100 dollars to satiate their growing strategy needs.

The underlying theme here is that kids can find "easier" amusement than learning the rules to even a SIMPLE wargame (such as Lock and Load). I know there are plenty of exceptions and I welcome everyone age 1 to 100, but anyone under 16 and a "true" war-gamer is the exception, not the rule. Personally I know of 1 person who is 14 and plays actual wargames with his dad. I know of zero people under the age of 18 that play WITHOUT a parent. I also know dozens of heroclix players under 18 who play independent of their parents.

So, there you have it. Markets change. The cost of acquiring the teen audience becomes prohibitively expensive on large scales, but we try to offer as much incentive as possible for young gamers to bug their parents to buy games online :).

-Joe

PS: I doubt anyone who reads this finds it even remotely as fascinating as I do. History repeats its self, in marketing, it usually does it with 50% more pizzaz and in very abstract ways.

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Post #: 61

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 8:44:49 AM

Bodhi

Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JosephL
The invention of "easier" forms of entertainment, coupled with the proliferation of information and technical knowledge have changed the teenager consumer. They are becoming less reliant on parents and trend towards performing research on items before purchase. This is best explained by understanding what type of good computer games and war games are. To an adult 50 - 100 dollars is a fair purchase but nothing bank-breaking. To a teenager a purchase of 50 - 100 dollars can be almost considered a "durable" item. This means teens would trend to doing competitive analysis and deep thinking before dropping the c-note on a game. (This does not apply when asking a parent for a game).

Just goes to show how out of touch I am: I thought teenagers got nearly all their games from P2P downloads rather than the old "purchase" method.

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Post #: 62

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 10:19:26 AM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Ah.. you be surprised how much faster the younger kids are catching on. My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it. My friend said they love it since they can't over spend and it allows them not to carry to much cash around. His only problem with it is once or twice a month he needs to take his son to the bank to make a deposit.

The Internet world is truly here and the kids are way ahead of most of the older adults.

Might be the case where your from but it certianly isnt the case here in the UK. Especially in the inner city areas. I dont know of anyone in my area who has a PC let alone the internet. Dont overestimate internet usage. Also even if someone has the internet a certain percentage wouldnt buy anything off it due to security paranoia.

I would say that hopefully most adults aren't stupid enough to give kids that young a credit card. Probably mom and dad can't even handle their debts and they're going to let junior have one? My folks, old folks sure, would have laughed their heads off if I even dared suggest such a thing. I know if I were a parent I wouldn't even dream of allowing it either. At least get old enough to have a permanent part time job and then we would see.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 63

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 11:33:34 AM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Ah.. you be surprised how much faster the younger kids are catching on. My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it. My friend said they love it since they can't over spend and it allows them not to carry to much cash around. His only problem with it is once or twice a month he needs to take his son to the bank to make a deposit.

The Internet world is truly here and the kids are way ahead of most of the older adults.

I would say that hopefully most adults aren't stupid enough to give kids that young a credit card. Probably mom and dad can't even handle their debts and they're going to let junior have one? My folks, old folks sure, would have laughed their heads off if I even dared suggest such a thing. I know if I were a parent I wouldn't even dream of allowing it either. At least get old enough to have a permanent part time job and then we would see.

Read what he sayed, it�s not a "credit card" it�s a "cash card", you have to put money on it first and you can�t get credit on it. It�s simply another matter of payment which allows you to be used via the internet and other online / cash free payment methods.

This is not stupid, it�s actually prety clever. We have something like this in Germany too. Basically a prepaid paying card.

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Post #: 64

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 11:47:44 AM

ravinhood

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For a 12/13 year old though that "cash" has to come from somewhere, so it still falls back on mom & dad for the most part, unless they aren't lazy and are allowed to mow yards, rake leaves, clean garages, etc. etc. for a little cash. At 12/13 I was selling GRIT newspapers for my income lol .05 cents proft a paper.

One scenario where little rich kid gets his own bank account, atm card, cash card does not make a market. heh I'd still wager the majority of middle class kids don't get that kind of cash to even have a bank account. And the pauper kids, lol, they can forget about it altogether, just stand in front of retail software and drool and dream of the day they can afford something so spectacular.

But, Joseph has basically cleared things up, Matrixgames is not geared toward the teenagers, this is a good thing in a way for us who like intelligent wargames to play, now, my question is, where are they? (Talking about the AI performance in them). ;)

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Post #: 65

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 12:02:27 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
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From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

For a 12/13 year old though that "cash" has to come from somewhere, so it still falls back on mom & dad for the most part, unless they aren't lazy and are allowed to mow yards, rake leaves, clean garages, etc. etc. for a little cash. At 12/13 I was selling GRIT newspapers for my income lol .05 cents proft a paper.

One scenario where little rich kid gets his own bank account, atm card, cash card does not make a market. heh I'd still wager the majority of middle class kids don't get that kind of cash to even have a bank account. And the pauper kids, lol, they can forget about it altogether, just stand in front of retail software and drool and dream of the day they can afford something so spectacular.

But, Joseph has basically cleared things up, Matrixgames is not geared toward the teenagers, this is a good thing in a way for us who like intelligent wargames to play, now, my question is, where are they? (Talking about the AI performance in them). ;)

Why do you assume it�s a rich kid? He probably works for his cash or get�s somekind of pocket-money. Having a cash card does not automatically mean it�s on of those spoiled rich kids.

David only posted this as an example for how more advanced kids of these days are with modern payment methods. He didn�t post it to tell that there�s a market and that we aim at kids with cash cards

Normaly banks do not charge for bank accounts of minors and students and also have no minimal inpayment for them. For most of the part those are sub-accounts to the main family account anyway.

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 1:02:23 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Ah.. you be surprised how much faster the younger kids are catching on. My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it. My friend said they love it since they can't over spend and it allows them not to carry to much cash around. His only problem with it is once or twice a month he needs to take his son to the bank to make a deposit.

The Internet world is truly here and the kids are way ahead of most of the older adults.

I would say that hopefully most adults aren't stupid enough to give kids that young a credit card. Probably mom and dad can't even handle their debts and they're going to let junior have one? My folks, old folks sure, would have laughed their heads off if I even dared suggest such a thing. I know if I were a parent I wouldn't even dream of allowing it either. At least get old enough to have a permanent part time job and then we would see.

Read what he sayed, it�s not a "credit card" it�s a "cash card", you have to put money on it first and you can�t get credit on it. It�s simply another matter of payment which allows you to be used via the internet and other online / cash free payment methods.

This is not stupid, it�s actually prety clever. We have something like this in Germany too. Basically a prepaid paying card.

Oh sorry Marc, but I only responded to that one post of his, and as such I don't see the words 'credit card' what I did see though was this

quote:

My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it.

Since he mentioned credit card logo what was I to think? He didn't actually mention what kind of card it was. You just must have read between the lines better than I did. I've never used one, but I think what he's talking sbout is called a debit card.

(in reply to Marc von Martial)

Post #: 67

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 1:34:29 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Heath

Ah.. you be surprised how much faster the younger kids are catching on. My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it. My friend said they love it since they can't over spend and it allows them not to carry to much cash around. His only problem with it is once or twice a month he needs to take his son to the bank to make a deposit.

The Internet world is truly here and the kids are way ahead of most of the older adults.

I would say that hopefully most adults aren't stupid enough to give kids that young a credit card. Probably mom and dad can't even handle their debts and they're going to let junior have one? My folks, old folks sure, would have laughed their heads off if I even dared suggest such a thing. I know if I were a parent I wouldn't even dream of allowing it either. At least get old enough to have a permanent part time job and then we would see.

Read what he sayed, it�s not a "credit card" it�s a "cash card", you have to put money on it first and you can�t get credit on it. It�s simply another matter of payment which allows you to be used via the internet and other online / cash free payment methods.

This is not stupid, it�s actually prety clever. We have something like this in Germany too. Basically a prepaid paying card.

Oh sorry Marc, but I only responded to that one post of his, and as such I don't see the words 'credit card' what I did see though was this
quote:

My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it.
Since he mentioned credit card logo what was I to think? He didn't actually mention what kind of card it was. You just must have read between the lines better than I did. I've never used one, but I think what he's talking sbout is called a debit card.

You only need to read a sentecne further where he says:

quote:

My friend said they love it since they can't over spend and it allows them not to carry to much cash around.

"Can�t over spend", hence no credit

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 1:46:26 PM

wodin

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Look if were not talking about middle class kids here then who are we talking about?

An awfull lot of people in my aera (Inner City Liverpool) dont even have Bank accounts! Many are unemployed.

The ones who do work couldn't afford to give little Johnny money into a bank account. Also unlike when I was younger most kids are adverse to work of any kind. Kids and teenagers alaways want something for nothing. Sad but true.

I do think its abit niave to think that the poorer kids would have their own bank account that Mum and Dad would put money into.

Anyway. Im really thinking of the twenty plus market. The idea of the games being in "Wargame Shops" is a superb policy. If I was MAtrix I'd track down all the major wargame websites and also advertise in the major Wargame/minatures magazines. Maybe the biggest seller of each major country.

I bet that will bring in some sales.

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 5:11:27 PM

JosephL

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Just a side note while you guys argue semnatics of credit vs. debit cards:

In the US you can have a credit card at the age of 16. I did. It only had a 300 dollar limit but it was 100% in my name. I also worked for my money from the age of 15 (in a bagel shop... how ultimately jewish is that! My parents were so proud.)

So, 16+ is possibly a fine P2P target for teens. Like I said though, at age 16 the purchase of an expensive wargame (which is just about all wargames when compared to a box of Heroclix (8 dollars per pack if I am not mistaken) is not taken lightly. It is most likely NOT going to be done on the fly in the game store "because it looked neat." It would be done with research in magazines and websites (possibly prompted by one or the other).

-Joe

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 5:18:23 PM

Bodhi

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From: Japan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Look if were not talking about middle class kids here then who are we talking about?

An awfull lot of people in my aera (Inner City Liverpool) dont even have Bank accounts! Many are unemployed.

The ones who do work couldn't afford to give little Johnny money into a bank account. Also unlike when I was younger most kids are adverse to work of any kind. Kids and teenagers alaways want something for nothing. Sad but true.

I do think its abit niave to think that the poorer kids would have their own bank account that Mum and Dad would put money into.

Probably harsh, but the type of people you're describing are not the type of people that marketing types covet.

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/8/2005 11:50:45 PM

Skie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

Just goes to show how out of touch I am: I thought teenagers got nearly all their games from P2P downloads rather than the old "purchase" method.

Sounds about right to me. I would imagine the only games they purchase are the ones that they want for online play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JosephL

So, 16+ is possibly a fine P2P target for teens. Like I said though, at age 16 the purchase of an expensive wargame (which is just about all wargames when compared to a box of Heroclix (8 dollars per pack if I am not mistaken) is not taken lightly. It is most likely NOT going to be done on the fly in the game store "because it looked neat." It would be done with research in magazines and websites (possibly prompted by one or the other).

If a purchase was to be made, there might be some research done. But, why research a game when you can P2P it for free and still buy more HeroClix? I would think their money would be reserved for big name games with a multiplayer focus.

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 12:55:30 AM

Reiryc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Riun T

Oh MY GOD,, GENTLEMEN MY head is spinning {forum sencery overload} so many valid pionts to ponder. so I'll tell u my simple story from saskatoon saskatchewan, 39 yo and first had militaristic interests at 5. am the first to my knowledge to have a computer of my own in a family of 4 with about 30 relitives, have what i like to call efficient computer knowledge and only found out about matrix from a sample disc of SPWAW ver. 5.0 in with a computer gammer magizine, I forget the year that was but about the same time as the first generation X box came out because I faught a huge toss up between that and the game cube or a PC advancing from a nintendo 64. All this changed when I met my first microsoft certifyed technician and got to see games like desent and duke nukem, things for me progressed quickly since then, fullll military and career life, pilots licence,just baught the house i've been renting from a corpral in my unit, gonna marry the girlfriend of the last 8 yrs, [compressing] anyway found out after sniffing at things like warcraft,starcraft,age of empires, MEC commander, command and conquer, ALL of the rellivent military FPS'ers from unmentionables like EA games and codemasters,the flight sims the tank sims,the sub sims and even the hypatheticals like DOOM3, FAR cry,and always it ends up with 3/4 of my vast computer time going to SPWAW, I'm talkin 6-8 hrs a night, and it all boils down to the kids are all still mall rats, and I don't put any less or more faith in that alot of the youth thats up and coming around here are smart enough to run SP and as far as I've been able to find only a used copy in box of HTTR at a gametrader story we have, I feel that aside of the 5 or so people I've introduced to matrix that your presance or even knowledge is seldom heard except when I visit this wounderful Forum, and eventhou I'm a little skiddish about DD's I've picked up a cd burner and will definatly be getting generals edition,just can't get over how mutch u can stretch your strategic addictions in how this game keeps u thinkin, plotting sceeming and coniveing. guess its the military speaking right now when I say that I've NEVER been comfortable with giving out CC #'s and personal data but I think this DD idea could be usefull because I,ve never been able to say i've been satisfied with any supposed support that u should be intitled to after u buy any product but Matrix has sold me because of the 8.4 patch I'VE NEVER THOUGHT i'd see the day i would see the day that any game company would be having a place,[these forums] where I could #1 discuss something I felt was lacking or heaven forbid wrong with their product,#2 see the input from GUYS like Marc, and gary[STAFF] conversing with us lowly costomers, AND such a fine job in listening to us Melonheads ACTUALLY GETTING OUT AN UPDATE THAT DIDN"T NEED ANY MIRROR SITE and downloaded to me way out here in 45 min at 110kbps. not bad at all but rest assured that if I get the dd and it don't work I'll be using this site to nag the crap outta you guys till we get it strait.RT

The block of death!

Paragraphs are your friend...

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 3:40:52 AM

Riun T

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Hey I was excited, Tired, and getting naged from the date in the background sayin we got to go, so I belched it ALL out. Thanks SARGE and retryrk I know grammer but was being Schedule pushed. RT.

< Message edited by Riun T -- 7/9/2005 3:44:07 AM >

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 4:44:48 AM

Rooster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JosephL Wrote:

It would be done with research in magazines and websites (possibly prompted by one or the other).

And very often because a friend or cousin turned them on to it.

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 8:11:14 AM

Cmdrcain

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I think your wrong in several instances, like:(with increased prices like WitP) While I did think at first their price was high before release, however I dug out my DOS version of Pacific War's box, I kinda keep all my software boxes... and the Sticker was $70
that was $70 in 1990 dollars, which in 2005 dollars probably would be around $100 or more...

Next you talk of identity theft, thats a problem even WITHOUT using a credit card... someone only needs gather info on you from many sources, its interesting to type in ones name and see whats there, traffic tickets, court records etc..

So irregardless of a credit card, your identity can
be stolen...

As to credit cards, your limited (usually waived) to no more then $50, often waived in clear case of fraud use... more to point if so worried, get a re-chargable card which you just load with what need to make a purchase and still also have same protections as with a credit card... in getting returns, etc..

So I think your basically wrong in your musings..

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 8:18:36 AM

Cmdrcain

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On DVD's, yes players are cheap now, sometmes I see DVD players on sale for less then older VHS machines..

You also

Forgot that one can find DVD's to watch at the ole Public Library, at least mine does and has a growing VHS/DVD collection thanks to people donating their old, now boring dvd/vhs movies

Sooo One could get a DVD player dor around 19.95
the lowest I seen one on sale (reg 29.99/39.99)
and then visit local library and take out free movies... what a bargain!

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 8:34:28 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

In fact I didn't even know about Matrixgames until 2 years ago and I've been on the internet since 1995 and wargaming since 1968, so, that shows you right there, they just don't get EXPOSURE except by accident or word of mouth, which is very slim.

is correct, but, at a cost of new wargamers and many consumers never ever seeing or hearing about their products.

A company survives not only by profit margin, but, also by "GROWTH & EXPOSURE", you're regular costomers may come and go, without increased growth, the bottom dollar starts to bottom out. Not to mention inflation, cost of goods, increased needs of income by the developers and publishers pushing these direct download prices up, while

Despite all you say, Matrixgames is easy to find if one just knows ways around internet, to search fir what interested in..

Even then,all Matrix really would need to do is to take some advertising out in game magazines,
directing people to the website..

Despite the worries of using credit cards etc, which can be used safely if one is careful in using such, and anyway your limited in what would need pay IF even held to it ($50) at least in USA, thats the law, someone uses my card to say buy a $500 stereo set, well I might get held to $50 but more likely the card issuer wouldn't you know why?

Because any fraudlent charge can be totally charged back on the merchant...the one selling for $500 is the one out $500 and the card bank would issue me a new card and only be out the costs of issuing a new card even the transaction fee the bank would get might still need be paid by the merchant.

You over do the worry on usinf a card, besides using in a store is as unsafe, sometimes they swipe you twice, sometimes they jot your number down etc..

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RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 8:51:39 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

While PC game customers have PC's, not all of them have "internet connections", just because a person owns a PC doesn't mean they use the internet. My aunts/uncles, and recently past mother never use the internet, my brother doesn't use the internet. To say everyone that plays a wargame and owns a PC has an internet connection and a direct link to Matrixgames would be a falsehood.

Thats their problem, their loss, I'd point out that
if don't have a connection one misses out on alot of things other then "wargames" irregardless, they still could get the game through someone they know who has a connection..like YOU

quote:

What I'm trying to get across that you completely overlooked, I've been gaming for nearly 40 years and until 2 years ago never even heard of Matrixgames. I'm an avid wargamer and if it took me that long to discover Matrixgames, it surely will take others that long if not longer. It was by discovery of their product on a "retail shelf" that I became interested in Matrixgames, not because of the website or their direct download/direct sales feature.

Matrix isn't 40 years old I think, its something that came about due to the internet and so it is a creation of the internet...

Clearly also you never did any web searching... simply typing in Pacific war Game... or Wargames, Pacwar, war in the pacific, computer wargames, etc and doing some looking would have had you find matrixgames..

quote:

Bottom line is, I don't like just direct download/direct sales. Thus, I don't own many Matrixgames titles and probably never will because of that reason. Something else it requires is a "fast internet connection" such as Cable or DSL. That costs $30 to $40 a month, that in and of itself is an expensive means just to buy a game. $360 to $480 a year can buy a lot of "retail" titles and entertainment is entertainment, if wargame developers want to drive a customer base away, this is a surefire means of doing it in my book. Also the fact that I can return a game title if I don't like it makesanother big difference in the situation. This "you bought it your screwed" sort of purchasing of online direct sales if you don't like the game doesn't fly with me.

Ummm theres stores that will NOT take back opened software other then to exchange it for another copy of same if defective, so your not necessary going be able to return a opened RETAIL box either..

As to cost of internet connection... one would of course be insane to get a fast connection just to buy and D/L matrix's games.. oh no, one gets fast speed to have fast connection to everything internet related..

Hey I can watch my METS games if I subscribe to MLB's programs over internet... in FLA I can't see my mets unless playing a fla team or the braves and the games on TV..

Lots of other things a fast connections for..

quote:

Also as has been stated by other forum Admins, the forum population is just a "smidgen" of the total population of purchasers. Maybe 1% if that, so either side for or against on a forum really represents the total of nothing in the overall view of the corporation and how they run their business.

Any forum will have a small active pct of customers, ANY forum, yet there will be many readers of the forum, also the company can get some idea of customers wants from their active posters..

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Post #: 79

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 9:07:51 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: U2

For a parent to buy something in a store is understandable. But to say "Hey Dad, give me your creditcard, I want to order a game online!" If some parents would say "no" I would understand.

Easy solution:

Parent gets a re-loadable card
Their Child hands over the money
Dad gets it loaded and Child goes online and orders it..

No mess, no fuss, no worries...

Or Dad loads card with just enough and makes out the order for the kid,
who would of course go to the sites ordering page for dad to order from..using that re-loadable, limited, no fuss, no muss card..

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Post #: 80

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 9:09:57 AM

Cmdrcain

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Humm Why not simply take advertising out in Gaming magazines?

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Post #: 81

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 9:26:35 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Read what he sayed, it�s not a "credit card" it�s a "cash card", you have to put money on it first and you can�t get credit on it. It�s simply another matter of payment which allows you to be used via the internet and other online / cash free payment methods.

This is not stupid, it�s actually prety clever. We have something like this in Germany too. Basically a prepaid paying card.

Well, theres:
Credit Cards
Debit Cards (tied to a Checking acct)
Re-loadable "credit" cards

I would say what talking of might be a checking acct or savings acct with a "check" card..

Used like a credit card but automatic debited so a debit card.

However not all places will accept "debit" cards so we have the re-loadable cards which can be loaded over and over, you deposit in say $100, you now have a $100 Line, their taken and handled as credit cards and the loaded balance is seen as a "credit available" getting around those that don't take Debit cards.

The "line"is reduced by purchases like a credit line is, to a merchant it is a credit card, but on bank side they treat it as a debit card.

Lots of other creative ways to pay too, check free, pay pal, etc..

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Post #: 82

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 9:37:01 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

For a 12/13 year old though that "cash" has to come from somewhere, so it still falls back on mom & dad for the most part, unless they aren't lazy and are allowed to mow yards, rake leaves, clean garages, etc. etc. for a little cash. At 12/13 I was selling GRIT newspapers for my income lol .05 cents proft a paper.

market. heh I'd still wager the majority of middle class kids don't get that kind of cash to even have a bank account.

When you sold GRIT, what were prices like? not knowing age hard to pin you, when I was 12/13 Lets see...

Comics 12 cents, cokes a dime, oh plus deposits...and I'd hunt out tossed away bottles, loved to find the BIG bottles with their larger deposit... Icecream bars at I believe 15 cents, Breyers... cheaper types were a dime..

Candy was quite cheap...

A Dollar went a long way then...

Humm Now?

kids make lots more money... My older sisters nephew as a teen was doing a mowing service
which he now still has but its BIGGER now with several crews and that started from him as a teen with one mowing machine and a list of customers

The point is kids can make quite a bit at odd jobs because costs are higher....

Oh btw when I was a kid I had my own bank account and I was a mere middle class kid,it was a savings acct which I accumulated cash in...taking out some at times for something I really wanted..

I think you miss the boat on some things or else
your parents were more restrictive... the beauty of a savings acct was I gained interest, even if it was a mere 3 pct or so..

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Post #: 83

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 9:45:25 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

Oh sorry Marc, but I only responded to that one post of his, and as such I don't see the words 'credit card' what I did see though was this
quote:

My best friends 13 son and his friends all have bank accounts (with Dad) and they all have a ATM card with a credit card logo. They can make all of there online and retail purchases from it and get cash when then need it.
Since he mentioned credit card logo what was I to think? He didn't actually mention what kind of card it was. You just must have read between the lines better than I did. I've never used one, but I think what he's talking sbout is called a debit card.

It is a debit card, by credit card "logo"he means that the card is ISSUED by a CREDIT card company...

I've had debit cards, they either have VISA or Mastercard logos on them, issued by the bank , tied to checking acct, serviced by a credit card issuer like visa, usually taken same as if a credit card.

Looks like, Feels like a credit card but isn't one

The one problem in using such through is your entire checking acct is open to use, someone could steal number and debit all the money you have in the acct on purchases..

Maybe even overdraw/overdraft the checking acct.

And there may not be same fraud protections on them as with a credit card... so....

Theres now the re-loadable "credit card" load it and thats the "credit line" it has... purchases reducing as with a credit card the line till its "0"

same fraud protections as a credit card.

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Post #: 84

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 4:35:14 PM

ravinhood

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quote:

The block of death!

Paragraphs are your friend...

LOL no chit! hahah and this is our military personnel? OMGawd saveus! hahah

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Post #: 85

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/9/2005 4:41:09 PM

ravinhood

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quote:

Ummm theres stores that will NOT take back opened software other then to exchange it for another copy of same if defective, so your not necessary going be able to return a opened RETAIL box either..

Oh yes I am, see, here is what you don't know what you are talking about or know who I am or who I am associated with. So, here you are clearly wrong bucko. ;)

(in reply to Cmdrcain)

Post #: 86

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/10/2005 9:44:16 AM

Cmdrcain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

quote:

Ummm theres stores that will NOT take back opened software other then to exchange it for another copy of same if defective, so your not necessary going be able to return a opened RETAIL box either..

Oh yes I am, see, here is what you don't know what you are talking about or know who I am or who I am associated with. So, here you are clearly wrong bucko. ;)

Oh Pardon me, I didn't know you were part of the "family"

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Post #: 87

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/10/2005 12:36:40 PM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

Just goes to show how out of touch I am: I thought teenagers got nearly all their games from P2P downloads rather than the old "purchase" method.

In my (limited) experience teens in this country have minimal interest in PC games compared with console games, anyway. Sure you could get console games PtP too, but as the kids have the console rather than a PC lurking in their rooms, the only PC available would usually be the "family" one, and it would be hard to keep up a constant steam of torrent downloads without parents noticing. That doesn't mean many kids don't get games that way, if course, but I'd dispute "most". All of my kid's friends have consoles; none have their own PCs.... none are even aware of PtP to my knowledge (although I may be wrong, of course).

(in reply to Bodhi)

Post #: 88

RE: Matrix and no shop sales policy - 7/10/2005 2:22:17 PM

ravinhood

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quote:

Oh Pardon me, I didn't know you were part of the "family"

My birth name is Petrocelli. ;)

Also about consoles and PC's, while raising my son, I gave him my old PC's when I upgraded. ;) He had "one" console the PS, but, usually wanted to play on the PC and most especially MY PC. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 7/10/2005 2:24:41 PM >

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Post #: 89