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RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/2/2006 10:58:34 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, the darker rivers show better, but on these screenshots they seem to smudge (I picked this word in the dictionary). I mean that the dark blue line on each sie of the inside of the river seem to smudge over the hex terrain. The lighter color had not this.
Why not have the clear terrain lighter ?
Oh, anyway that's not a big deal, darker or as they were at just before is fine, just it would be better if the color did not smudge.

Cheers !
Patrice

I will probably come back to the rivers once the rest of the graphics are done (i.e., the coastal hexes for the rest of the world). This was our first pass at them and we rather blindly followed ADG's lead and copied the WIF FE paper maps. They look ok, but I would like better.

Smudge is a good word to use here, though it usually means a blurring/running together of colors - typcially done with a thumb by accident. It can also be used to describe dirty water glasses: "they were smudged". Blurred or fuzzy are probably more appropriate adjectives. The lines are as not crisp and clear as I would like. It is the result of anti-aliasing. At high resolution the anti-aliasing makes lines look sharper, but when the image is zoomed out, the pixel colors are "averaged" and the anit-aliasing makes the image less crisp that it would be otherwise.

Not something to spend a lot of time on right now, but it's easy to make them a dark blue.

Right now the preference seems to be for the darker blue. If I could, I would make this an option, but the rivers in the coastal hexes are preprocessed, so the decision on colors for the rivers has to be made before the game is released.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 481

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/2/2006 8:31:38 PM

Ballista

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I agree with the darker blue- it appears to stand out better at the higher levels. These maps are sure coming around to looking spectacular. Keep up the good work !

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 482

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 9:35:39 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Here are the new icons. I have to fix the factories, they are offset a few pixels to the right, but everything is correct.

Note the two kinds of capitals: Berlin versus Amsterdam & Brussels (lower left corner).

There are functioning factories in Germany and idle factories in Netherlands and Belgium.

If you look closely you can see the change in clear terrain to a slightly darker pattern. The bitmapped coastal hexes are still the lighter shade: Hannover and Hamburg versus Bremen and Lubeck.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Ballista)

Post #: 483

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 9:41:26 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here's another picture of the icons at a lower resolution.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 484

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 9:45:53 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Here's the revised desert mountain with the icons at another resolution.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 485

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 11:45:34 AM

Froonp

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My own opinion is that :
- Desert mountain is better than before. Now it is clearly visible.
- The icons are generaly too small for my taste.
- The factories seem great, we will see when they will be no more offseted to the right.
- I prefered the round cities and the round resources & oil.
- If the resource icon was larger, the number of resources could be inscribed in the lower center of the icon, avoiding to be drawn on the pickaxe.

What is the difference between the two capitals ? Major power vs. minor countries ?

Note : I see that Hindenburg is still on this map. It is not on any existing WiF FE map.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 486

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 12:55:04 PM

Greyshaft

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From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Note : I see that Hindenburg is still on this map. It is not on any existing WiF FE map.

Try the 'America in Flames' maps near Lakehurst New Jersey.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 487

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 1:14:03 PM

c92nichj

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

My own opinion is that :
- Desert mountain is better than before. Now it is clearly visible.

Agreed

quote:

- The icons are generaly too small for my taste.

Maybe a bit.

quote:

- The factories seem great, we will see when they will be no more offseted to the right.

I like the factories, looks great.

quote:

- I prefered the round cities and the round resources & oil.
- If the resource icon was larger, the number of resources could be inscribed in the lower center of the icon, avoiding to be drawn on the pickaxe.

I like the oil icon but not the resource one, also if it's only one resource/oil in a hex I don't think that a number shall be visible only if there are more than one resource in a hex.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 488

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 1:14:42 PM

Froonp

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I talked about Hindenburg in eastern Germany (East of Breslau).
There is an Hindenburg on the AiF map ???

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 489

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 2:19:14 PM

Caranorn

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From: Luxembourg
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I love the factories, resources and oil resources. I don't think these can be made larger (at least not much larger) without cluttering some hexes (hexes with city, port, factory and resource, multiple railines and of course on the coastline...).

I guess we will get used to the city icons, I also preferred round ones, but these octagonal ones I expect will have no anti-aliasing problems on the various backgrounds.

I have never heard of a major city called Hindenburg (Germany), so I expect it indeed doesn't belong there. It would be good if we found out who added it to CWiF and for what reason.

Oh yes, and indeed I'd remove the numbers from single resources. Maybe even a graphic representation could be found to represent multiple resources (like the multiple factories).

_____________________________

Marc aka Caran... ministerialis

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 490

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 2:39:27 PM

Neilster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I talked about Hindenburg in eastern Germany (East of Breslau).
There is an Hindenburg on the AiF map ???

Oh the humanity!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 491

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 5:16:28 PM

YohanTM2

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I really like the art. Factories in particular. I think the size of the resource markers is great as it does not overshadow the hex. I agree that you can take the numbers off the resources if there is only one.

I also agree the oil marker looks great. The square resources may take a bit of getting used to.

I like the city designs, I think it looks cool.

(in reply to Caranorn)

Post #: 492

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 6:11:56 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

My own opinion is that :
- Desert mountain is better than before. Now it is clearly visible.
- The icons are generaly too small for my taste.
- The factories seem great, we will see when they will be no more offseted to the right.
- I prefered the round cities and the round resources & oil.
- If the resource icon was larger, the number of resources could be inscribed in the lower center of the icon, avoiding to be drawn on the pickaxe.

What is the difference between the two capitals ? Major power vs. minor countries ?

Note : I see that Hindenburg is still on this map. It is not on any existing WiF FE map.

Removing the number from the resource icon when there is only one resource in the hex is an excellent idea.

The idle factories actually need to be cleaned up. Where the smoke is positioned for working factories the background is tinted red instead of being a pure white.

The different shapes help identify/communicate information: circle for port, octagon for city, square for resource, rectangle for factory.

The Major Power capitals have a red center octagon, while the minor country capitals have a gray center octagon.

The artist's first pass was to center the resource number in the bottom of the hex. Obscuring the crossing point of the shovel and pick axe really messed up the icon - it was hard to see that there were two separate tools, and what they were. I had him move it to the side so the represenation was easier to discern.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 493

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 8:41:03 PM

dhatchen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here's another picture of the icons at a lower resolution.

Does this shot have the darker clear hexes?

I like most of what is on these maps. The desert mountain is perfect. The new city icons work, and the difference in capitals is a nice touch. I am still deciding on the square resource/oil. They are great, but I am partial to the paper map versions. Could the resource icon have a background closer to the paper map?

This just a thought, but I really like the active/inactive factory icon idea. Would it maybe be possible to port the same idea to the resource/oil icons? Also, even more off the wall, to show partial usage, ie, one stack smoking if only one is in use. This would make a real nice visual feedback touch.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 494

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 8:43:31 PM

YohanTM2

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Steve,

Will there also be icons to show if resources and factories are destroyed?

Rob

(in reply to dhatchen)

Post #: 495

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 10:20:30 PM

lomyrin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Steve,

Will there also be icons to show if resources and factories are destroyed?

Rob

Will factories that have been successfully strat bombed show that they are lost for the turn?

Lars

(in reply to YohanTM2)

Post #: 496

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 10:40:40 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhatchen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here's another picture of the icons at a lower resolution.

Does this shot have the darker clear hexes?

I like most of what is on these maps. The desert mountain is perfect. The new city icons work, and the difference in capitals is a nice touch. I am still deciding on the square resource/oil. They are great, but I am partial to the paper map versions. Could the resource icon have a background closer to the paper map?

This just a thought, but I really like the active/inactive factory icon idea. Would it maybe be possible to port the same idea to the resource/oil icons? Also, even more off the wall, to show partial usage, ie, one stack smoking if only one is in use. This would make a real nice visual feedback touch.

Yes, they are all darker clear hexes (a couple touches of green have been added).

Curiously enough, I specifically requested that the artist change the background color for the resource hex from the paper maps. I find the orange too much of a contrast with the rest of the map's color scheme.

The partial usage of the factories (one smoking and two not smoking) is already part of the code for the game (compliments of Chris).

These screen shots do not show damaged factories and resources. They look like functioning ones but with a diagonal red line across the icon. Individual factories can be damaged while others in the hex are not. When oil resources are damaged, I will have the program add another icon to the hex if necessary. For example, the polesti oil fields could be providing 3 oil resources with the 4th one damaged. There would be a icon of 3 good and a second icon of 1 damaged.

Ports can also be damaged and they are also shown with a diagonal red line across the icon.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to dhatchen)

Post #: 497

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/4/2006 10:55:45 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Steve,

Will there also be icons to show if resources and factories are destroyed?

Rob

Will factories that have been successfully strat bombed show that they are lost for the turn?

Lars

There are three types of factories: red, blue, and green. The red and blue factories start on the map. Green factories are new ones built during the game using the production system. [There are also green factories mentioned in Patton in Flames and included on those maps but they are not part of MWIF product 1. When I use the adjective green herein, I am refering to the definition in the 3rd sentence of this paragraph.]

Green factories can be completely destroyed and then their icons are replaced by black factory icons. If an new factory is built in the hex where there is a black factory icon, then the black icon is replaced with a new green one. Green factories can not be damaged, only destroyed.

Both red and blue factories can be damaged (but not destroyed). Their status as damaged is indicated by the red diagonal line across the icon. They can be repaired using engineers, and if that is done, they return to their original, unblemished status.

Strategic bombing doesn't actually affect a factory. Instead, it affects the total production points available to the Major Power. I haven't decided on how to indicate that. If there are 2 factories in the hex and strategic bombing has already inflicted the loss of 2 production points, then additional strategic bombing will have no effect (unless it is so successful that it destroys a factory). So, the information has to be available to the players somehow. I do not know how CWIF handled this. I'll read that code someday.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to lomyrin)

Post #: 498

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 12:10:34 AM

Froonp

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quote:

For example, the polesti oil fields could be providing 3 oil resources with the 4th one damaged. There would be a icon of 3 good and a second icon of 1 damaged.

Just to warn you that 4 Oil resources in Ploesti is a ghost of the WiF past.
WiF FE has 3 Oil resources in Ploesti (Rumania) now.

For the square resources, I still prefer the orange rounded ones

Those are too dark for me.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 499

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 12:17:15 AM

Froonp

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quote:

Here's the revised desert mountain with the icons at another resolution.

I have a remark about the strait arrow in the shot where we see Gibraltar.
Because of Option 12 (limited access across straits), you have to draw the arrow on the right side of the sea area border. In the case of Gibraltar, it should be drawn in the West Med Sea Area.
As it is now, one can't know that he have to take care of the West Med to open the supply route from Tangier to Gibraltar (if using Option 12).

Patrice

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 500

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 12:24:05 AM

Froonp

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quote:

Strategic bombing doesn't actually affect a factory. Instead, it affects the total production points available to the Major Power. I haven't decided on how to indicate that. If there are 2 factories in the hex and strategic bombing has already inflicted the loss of 2 production points, then additional strategic bombing will have no effect (unless it is so successful that it destroys a factory). So, the information has to be available to the players somehow. I do not know how CWIF handled this. I'll read that code someday.

Maybe a stack could be colored black to show it has lost its Production Point (PP) ?
Or a black dot can appear below the stack whose PP was destroyed.
CWiF had a dialog showing the Strategic Bombing losses (Info / Strategic Bombing), but it could be better if it was also displayed visualy on the screen so that one knows that all PP are destroyed on a given factory in case of a second wave of bombers is in preparation.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 501

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 12:27:17 AM

dhatchen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Yes, they are all darker clear hexes (a couple touches of green have been added).

Curiously enough, I specifically requested that the artist change the background color for the resource hex from the paper maps. I find the orange too much of a contrast with the rest of the map's color scheme.

The partial usage of the factories (one smoking and two not smoking) is already part of the code for the game (compliments of Chris).

These screen shots do not show damaged factories and resources. They look like functioning ones but with a diagonal red line across the icon. Individual factories can be damaged while others in the hex are not. When oil resources are damaged, I will have the program add another icon to the hex if necessary. For example, the polesti oil fields could be providing 3 oil resources with the 4th one damaged. There would be a icon of 3 good and a second icon of 1 damaged.

Ports can also be damaged and they are also shown with a diagonal red line across the icon.

The clear looks better.

I agree with Froonp, I like the rounded orange resource bestest.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 502

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 1:39:08 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Strategic bombing doesn't actually affect a factory. Instead, it affects the total production points available to the Major Power. I haven't decided on how to indicate that. If there are 2 factories in the hex and strategic bombing has already inflicted the loss of 2 production points, then additional strategic bombing will have no effect (unless it is so successful that it destroys a factory). So, the information has to be available to the players somehow. I do not know how CWIF handled this. I'll read that code someday.

Maybe a stack could be colored black to show it has lost its Production Point (PP) ?
Or a black dot can appear below the stack whose PP was destroyed.
CWiF had a dialog showing the Strategic Bombing losses (Info / Strategic Bombing), but it could be better if it was also displayed visualy on the screen so that one knows that all PP are destroyed on a given factory in case of a second wave of bombers is in preparation.

I haven't gotten to the straits hexsides yet. Those icons need replacement (as do the fortifications). The subtle point you are making is good, but fairly demanding on the programming - I believe this is the only place where this kind of a problem arises. Writing special code just for one place on the map goes against my instincts.

I want to review the attack arrows (I thought they were pretty good in CWIF) and other indications of committed actions (ground strikes, ground support, etc.). I also want something new for naval combat that can be shown visually in the sea areas, using the sea boxes.

How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 503

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 1:47:07 AM

Froonp

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quote:

How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.

Yes, good for me.
The X in WiF is the synonym to "destroyed", so I think it shows that the output of this stack is destroyed.

Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 504

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 2:12:41 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

How about a small x over the factories that are out of commission for 1 turn? It could appear where the smoke is for a functioning factory.

Yes, good for me.
The X in WiF is the synonym to "destroyed", so I think it shows that the output of this stack is destroyed.

Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.

Yes. I used "out of commission" to mean that the production point is lost for a turn. "Out of commisssion" is a typical sign that is hung on machinery that isn't currently working. I do a lot of writing and I get bored using the same words over and over again. I am aware that I throw in odd words from time to time. I rationalize it to myself by saying that maybe it has the same meaning in French, or if not, then it is an opportunity to teach a new word. I apologize if it is annoying - but it is a habit of a lifetime.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 505

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 3:41:21 AM

Incy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

I really like the art. Factories in particular. I think the size of the resource markers is great as it does not overshadow the hex. I agree that you can take the numbers off the resources if there is only one.

I also agree the oil marker looks great. The square resources may take a bit of getting used to.

I like the city designs, I think it looks cool.

Hindenburg is now Zabrze (and in Poland).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabrze

(in reply to YohanTM2)

Post #: 506

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/5/2006 7:45:36 AM

dhatchen

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Joined: 12/23/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Edit : Ooops. You write "Out of commission" and as a French speaker I am not 100% sure that this mean that 1 PP is lost. I hope that it is what you meant.

As a French speaker, your English has been impeccable on these posts. I have read them all and it showed only a couple of times. I wish my French was as good.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 507

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/8/2006 3:27:30 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Hindenburg up in flames! For Patrice.

Here are the darker rivers with darker clear and forest terrain. I believe the difference between the forest and swamp is more noticeable now.

I have fixed a bug in drawing the rail lines and made some other modifications to smooth them out. The hex west of Lodz has a better intersection and so does the hex east of Katowice. Some names still need to be repositioned (an never ending task, it seems).

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Incy)

Post #: 508

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/8/2006 3:30:17 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here are the lakes and rivers with darker blue outlines. I have modified the coastal hexes so they match.

Notice the new iced-in port symbols for both minor and major ports.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 509

RE: Maps for MWIF - 2/8/2006 3:35:24 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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This screen shot is at level 6 zoom. The rivers are somewhat muddy (simulating after a heavy rain?). Eventually I will come back to the rivers to improve how they look at all levels of zoom. This is good enough for now.

Metz is still misplaced. I have only messed around with it about 20 times. I have put in the ability to position icons at 25 different points within a hex. It is letting me improve the placements of some icons, but mainly helps with the rail lines.