Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Steve, sorry to come up with the dreaded question but, after so many months from a predicted date, I cannot see the end close.

I'll go out on a limb here and say before July 1 of this year. As to what will be included in the first release - I will not comment on that at this time.

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ORIGINAL: gridley

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Steve, sorry to come up with the dreaded question but, after so many months from a predicted date, I cannot see the end close.

I'll go out on a limb here and say before July 1 of this year. As to what will be included in the first release - I will not comment on that at this time.

I know this isn't written in stone, anything can happen, etc...But Holy Smokes!!!

And to just throw it out there so non-chalantly...very cool

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ORIGINAL: ioticus

So does that mean the AI is finished or there won't be an AI?  Because every time I read the report it says "nothing new" for AI.

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As to what will be included in the first release - I will not comment on that at this time.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Steve, sorry to come up with the dreaded question but, after so many months from a predicted date, I cannot see the end close.

I know you wont give a date. Could you speak about a certain year as a prospective date?

I am pretty shy to ask this, and I totally understand if you are still not prone to do so. Just I was wondering, in order to check the advances of the game as frequently or less frequently (if it's going to last for several yers still).

Glad to hear your health improves, I hope Red Prince is also 100% recovered.

I'll go out on a limb here and say before July 1 of this year. As to what will be included in the first release - I will not comment on that at this time.

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ORIGINAL: ioticus

So does that mean the AI is finished or there won't be an AI?  Because every time I read the report it says "nothing new" for AI.

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

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ORIGINAL: ioticus

So does that mean the AI is finished or there won't be an AI?  Because every time I read the report it says "nothing new" for AI.

Obviously everyone can extract his own conclusions. Steve spoke much more than I thought, if he doesn't want to speak more, we should respect this.

I imagine that, considering that in the last report there is no advance on AI, and he says he will not speak of what it consists of (it shows that sth. should be left from original plans) , we can assume in a relevant percentage of probability that there may be no AI in this first release.

Bo, nice to read you againl. By now I am playing Total War, HoI3, Rise of Prussia, Birth of America, ... and TripleA . As well as reading (and working and learning languages, ...). :)

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Is there a video game namedl El Cid? I guess you'r referring to a campaign of Age of COnquerors.

El Cid was a real person, a hero who was a nobleman and the Champion of the King of Castile. He humiliated his brother when he was going to be crowned, by making him swear in a church on the Bible the new king he had nothing to do in the murder of his brother, whom El Cid revered.

The new king never forgave him having put him in the disjunctive of condemn his soul (like he did) or die, and banned him and any followers from his kingdom. El Cid (pronounced El Sid in old spanish, after his arab nickname) was named like that by the arab enemies and sometimes allies of him (Al Sidi or The Lord).

He became kind of a mercenary force, unbalancing the previous delicate balance between the christian kingdoms and the muslims and their allies and vassals, of the same or different religion.

He allied the Emir of Zaragoza against the Sultan (Caliplh?) of Cordoba and conquered Valencia for himself, he couldn't defend it though, against a kind of Yihad surged in Northern Africa Cordoba Caliphate land,s and offered to the king of Castile, but the king preferred not to get the city- state and provinces and have El Cid back as a vassal, that was his hatred, even decades afterwards (also he might want to avoid the harder of the Yihad).

About this extraordinary hero and General (our own Vlad Tepes, the real hero, not the TV Dracula), the people used to say "O God what a good vassal, if only he had a good Lord..."

Ooops, sorry about the digression.

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I'll go out on a limb here and say before July 1 of this year. As to what will be included in the first release - I will not comment on that at this time.

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

So going to put it unto the market without the AI, but with the promise that the AI will be build and patched to the buyers might be a wise decision. However that also puts pressure on Steve, since he has to build the AI soon.

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ORIGINAL: Klydon

I thought they might be getting closer with the start of the AAR's. (Usually a good sign as the game is far enough along to be somewhat "useable"). I didn't imagine it would be this soon, but I have to also assume no AI on the initial release. While disappointed, I totally understand as the game has been in development for so long, there has to be a desire to get some revenue coming in somehow for all this work. I know at one point, Steve mentioned an estimate of 5000 hours for the AI. My guess is it might take longer than that although how much is done already, we don't really know. We do know a lot of the scripts and decision trees from a strategy standpoint have been in progress, so that does help. My best guess is they will release this summer if they can and then it would probably be at least another year for an "AI expansion" that may also include some additional stuff that is also being left out of the initial release.

Either way, certainly a positive step forward at this point.

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ORIGINAL: bo

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ORIGINAL: Klydon

I thought they might be getting closer with the start of the AAR's. (Usually a good sign as the game is far enough along to be somewhat "useable"). I didn't imagine it would be this soon, but I have to also assume no AI on the initial release. While disappointed, I totally understand as the game has been in development for so long, there has to be a desire to get some revenue coming in somehow for all this work. I know at one point, Steve mentioned an estimate of 5000 hours for the AI. My guess is it might take longer than that although how much is done already, we don't really know. We do know a lot of the scripts and decision trees from a strategy standpoint have been in progress, so that does help. My best guess is they will release this summer if they can and then it would probably be at least another year for an "AI expansion" that may also include some additional stuff that is also being left out of the initial release.

Either way, certainly a positive step forward at this point.

Forgive me for this as I do not want to get into any argument again about this AI thing.
I will buy the game AI or no AI, I want to be very clear about that. To all the board game players no AI will not matter to you I assume, not sure of that. I believe with my heart and soul that the majority of wargamers in the open market will not buy this game without a decent AI. I for one do not like pbem. And net play I am not sure about that either. There is nothing better than to play against a human opponet. I play cod2 all the time on line. The cod2 AI is not bad for a computer game but I prefer going up against very good players even if I dont do well. Steve has not said one way or the other about an AI. I did not read that 5000 hours thing, must have missed it. To my knowledge every top selling war game in the last 10 years had an AI. Even if the AI is poor I dont care at least I will learn something from it. There is a big following of board gamers but really not enough to make money for Matrix. There is a vast world of wargamers out there and if no AI I guarantee you they will not buy. I want to play when I want to play not when its convenient or not convenient for someone else. As I said before I have ADG'S WIF, its just ok and without an AI which it does not have I wish I had not bought it. My only experience with pbem was not good as it was all screwed up, why should I expect anything better now, please Steve not any kind of dig on you, I just don't have any confidence left with anybody. I tried to stay away from posting but this no AI thing has upset me, I thought it was a nobrainer situation. Guess not huh! These are my feelings right or wrong, just can't help being this way.

Bo

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ORIGINAL: SewerStarFish

As a strong proponent of the "must have an AI", I certainly understand if Matrix elects to sell the first version without one. And then offer or provide the AI later. That sort of thing is a business decision; making games is a for profit endeavour. But it should be made exceedingly clear before release what is included and if the later AI will be free or sold as an expansion or even be attempted at all.

I agree with Jose that the MWiF will resolve many issues of competeing rules opinions. Heck even when I know a rule, I often simply forget to apply it.

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ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I have never played WiF ftf or the old computer version. However I have played DG's computer coversion of SPI's WiE that does not have an AI. I was very pleased (and surprised) at how well it worked playing both sides at the same time. Why? Just like WiF, WiE is a very complex game that is hard to keep track of everything that is happening on a single side you are playing much less both sides. It is possible to 'surprise yoursef' lol.

So I would suggest, that before everyone condems the decision of not having an AI (which we do not know for sure anyway), is to try a game that does not have one and play both sides. That will give you a much better perspective on realasing earlier without an AI (which I truely support btw) or delaying even longer to get the AI in.