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WTF? - 8/8/2005 8:12:01 AM   
eburr155

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
Hi all.

I’ve been playing this game off and on (and lurking here for tips) for a couple of years, and finally settled down to do a long campaign.

I thought I’d play something ahistorical, and wanted to go with a reinforced Marine battalion that kicks butt in the Philippines, somehow gets evacuated and goes on to show the Army how its done in Africa and Europe.

I’ve managed it up to Guadalcanal, but now I need advice. Mostly about this term “gamey” that gets tossed around here, but also about the game.

I’ve resigned myself to the fact that the Marines don’t have antitank weapons at the squad level, but is it gamey if I upgrade my tank company to M4s, then M4x76(w)s a year before the Marines really got them. My thought is if Roosevelt and Knox want the Marines to fight in Europe, the Marines get the best equipment, for once. And I really want to upgrade my four 81mm mortars to M7s.

I’d also like to upgrade my AT and AA platoons (my 37mm guns take about four penetrating hits to knock out a Jap tank) to the Army’s 90mms, but that would be asking too much.

My game questions revolve around offboard artillery, specifically ranges. My latest battle is a delay the computer calls “Bloody Ridge”, although it don’t look like Bloody Ridge, and my last fight was on New Guinea.

Anyway, I bought a trio of 75mm pack howitzer batteries. Then, when I was trying to call in fire missions, I found out they are out of range. The encyclopedia says they have a range of 56, but they can only seem to hit about 50ish hexes from the edge of the map. And all three batteries’ buttons grey out at different points.

How is offboard artillery range figured?

I may just get grumpy and decide to get nothing but Army 155s. I may anyway; I love that piece.
Post #: 1
RE: WTF? - 8/8/2005 1:52:56 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
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Its not gamey. Gamey is usually used in reference to PBEM, when you do stuff like you suggested against a human opponent, without discussing it first. When you are playing the AI, you should play the game as you wish and however you enjoy it. If your hypothetical scenario has the Marines in Europe fighting the Germans, then equip them as you think they would have been equipped! Its all about having fun.

OB artillery is not one hex off the board. It might be 20 hexes, 25, etc (don't know how the computer determines it). So your Packs might already have thrown the shells 25 hexes when they come on the board, thus seriously reducing the range of their on-board strike. Buy regular 75's, or a battery or two of on-board guns.


Goblin

< Message edited by Goblin -- 8/8/2005 1:55:02 PM >


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RE: WTF? - 8/8/2005 2:46:26 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

on to show the Army how its done in Africa and Europe.



I like this guy already

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 3
RE: WTF? - 8/8/2005 5:50:13 PM   
BruceAZ


Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eburr155

I’ve resigned myself to the fact that the Marines don’t have...



Hi Eburr:

Yup. That's us. Marines always find the oddest (sp?) things to fight with! Hell, I ALWAYS upgrade to Army equipment during the long campaign. I figured since the President's son was a Marine, he would get us the best. Historically, he did get a free ticket to ANY thing when the Raider's were organizing. Look at all the odd stuff they had on the 'Canal.

Good enough for them it is good enough for Recon.

So upgrade and feel no guilt. You are obsolved of "gamey" sin, so go forth and do battle!

(Just don't let Wild Bill catch 'ya... )


Recon
Semper Fi

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Post #: 4
RE: WTF? - 8/8/2005 7:12:52 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
eburr155, it always pleases me when someone decides to play as the Marines.

However, some things you need to know about the long campaign -- for the USMC, it is set strictly in the Pacific Theater, with the sole opponent being the Japanese. The terrain is randomly generated, so no two notional "Bloody Ridges" will look exactly alike -- historical maps are not used. I've always had a minor gripe with "the Tenaru" setup (the USMC faces west in the long campaign, which is backwards from the historical battle, and sometimes there's no "river" at all, but it's not a joykiller).

As far as upgrades are concerned, it's your game, so do whatever you want with it. My personal core force is pretty historical, but it isn't exact -- I made a few concessions to smooth out the upgrade paths for 1943-45.

If you want to do a "what-if" campaign, you need to use the battle/campaign generator. This way, you can choose the opponents and the battlefield type.

The pack howitzers-- Goblin's right-- you have no idea of how far "off the map" your support arty is. Therefore, any 75's should be bought as on-board support. I seldom use them-- frankly, I prefer onboard 81mm mortars (I have four 81s in my core), and offboard 105s.

I look forward to reading more about your experiences with the Gyrenes. Good luck.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 8/8/2005 7:18:55 PM >


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RE: WTF? - 8/13/2005 2:19:39 AM   
eburr155

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
So while I look furtively around for this Wild Bill guy ...

Thanks. I won't feel guilty about buying those 90mms. Of course if the computer thinks my guys can fight from Luzon to New Guinea to Gualdalcanal without a break, I wasn't going to feel guilty about it anyway. The least the War Department can do is give me ONE great weapons system. Besides the 155s and the .50-cals I mean.

As an aside, KG, my core force is almost exactly what you advised Terminus to get. Cross Lanes, huh. I grew up in Parkersburg.

Now I think I need tactical advice.

My first five battles were all defend/delays on maps with no lines of sight, so I had lots of mines and set up the MLR to cover the victory hexes. I had the three tank platoons deployed well forward with three tanks up front and the other two a couple of hexes back, each with a rifle or engineer platoon and a light mortar section for support. Contact usually came on about turn 7 or 8, with the Japanese forced to retreat after getting hit by 75mm, .50-cal, and flamethorwer opfires. Short range mortar shots really did a number on them. And pulling the outposts back 100 yards after each contact meant the Jap mortars and arty came down on empty jungle. Really the only thing that didn't work out was when I'd forget and leave the mortars too far forward and they got clobbered by riflemen.

That and buying the 75mm pack howitzers, which couldn't cover the outpost line. But with five straight decisive victories I won't complain about that.

But now I've got an advance mission over realatively open terrain. I put my armor and a SPAA platoon (each with a rifle platoon in support) in overwatch positions overlooking the areas inside the green flags on the setup map.

Two turns later I've lost more tanks (three) then I have in the rest of the campaign to mortars, plus a pair of M15s, the only thing I've spotted are two knee mortar sections 10-12 hexes away and the vehicles that are still around are buttoned from taking long range small arms fire. My maunvering infantry is all intact and unspotted since they're coming from between the ridgelines or through the jungle with plenty of smoke on their flanks.

So. Is there some kind of timing needed for overwatch or am I doing it wrong? Instead of using armor for overwatch, I'm thinking I should use my .50s for a base of fire, since they're all unspotted at 10-12 hexes, I've got 21 of them in the rifle and weapons companies, and leave my tanks at a similar range but back in the jungle so they can move one hex, shoot at spotted units and go back into hiding. Or maybe keep the armor with the manuvering infantry to provide close range firepower.

In the long-term I have real questions about my core force organization. It seems to me these six-unit rifle platoons are a bit unwieldy. I'm thinking of coverting the platoon HQs to regular rifle squads (once the E series is availible), splitting off the BAR sqauds to something with short range firepower and assigning them to my tank platoons, and converting one rifle squad from each platoon to special forces, since the Raider demolition squads seem to be a great, if time consuming way to deal with the 20+ onboard tubes the AI seems to have every battle.

And while the encyclopedia says rifle grenades with the E series squads have a HEAT penetration of 100, is that true? Or should I convert that extra rifle squad in each platoon to a bazooka team?


(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
RE: WTF? - 8/13/2005 10:20:32 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eburr155

So while I look furtively around for this Wild Bill guy ...

Thanks. I won't feel guilty about buying those 90mms. Of course if the computer thinks my guys can fight from Luzon to New Guinea to Gualdalcanal without a break, I wasn't going to feel guilty about it anyway. The least the War Department can do is give me ONE great weapons system. Besides the 155s and the .50-cals I mean.

As an aside, KG, my core force is almost exactly what you advised Terminus to get. Cross Lanes, huh. I grew up in Parkersburg.

Now I think I need tactical advice.

My first five battles were all defend/delays on maps with no lines of sight, so I had lots of mines and set up the MLR to cover the victory hexes. I had the three tank platoons deployed well forward with three tanks up front and the other two a couple of hexes back, each with a rifle or engineer platoon and a light mortar section for support. Contact usually came on about turn 7 or 8, with the Japanese forced to retreat after getting hit by 75mm, .50-cal, and flamethorwer opfires. Short range mortar shots really did a number on them. And pulling the outposts back 100 yards after each contact meant the Jap mortars and arty came down on empty jungle. Really the only thing that didn't work out was when I'd forget and leave the mortars too far forward and they got clobbered by riflemen.

That and buying the 75mm pack howitzers, which couldn't cover the outpost line. But with five straight decisive victories I won't complain about that.

But now I've got an advance mission over realatively open terrain. I put my armor and a SPAA platoon (each with a rifle platoon in support) in overwatch positions overlooking the areas inside the green flags on the setup map.

Two turns later I've lost more tanks (three) then I have in the rest of the campaign to mortars, plus a pair of M15s, the only thing I've spotted are two knee mortar sections 10-12 hexes away and the vehicles that are still around are buttoned from taking long range small arms fire. My maunvering infantry is all intact and unspotted since they're coming from between the ridgelines or through the jungle with plenty of smoke on their flanks.

So. Is there some kind of timing needed for overwatch or am I doing it wrong? Instead of using armor for overwatch, I'm thinking I should use my .50s for a base of fire, since they're all unspotted at 10-12 hexes, I've got 21 of them in the rifle and weapons companies, and leave my tanks at a similar range but back in the jungle so they can move one hex, shoot at spotted units and go back into hiding. Or maybe keep the armor with the manuvering infantry to provide close range firepower.

In the long-term I have real questions about my core force organization. It seems to me these six-unit rifle platoons are a bit unwieldy. I'm thinking of coverting the platoon HQs to regular rifle squads (once the E series is availible), splitting off the BAR sqauds to something with short range firepower and assigning them to my tank platoons, and converting one rifle squad from each platoon to special forces, since the Raider demolition squads seem to be a great, if time consuming way to deal with the 20+ onboard tubes the AI seems to have every battle.

And while the encyclopedia says rifle grenades with the E series squads have a HEAT penetration of 100, is that true? Or should I convert that extra rifle squad in each platoon to a bazooka team?




Firstly, sorry it took so long to reply. It's always great to encounter another West Virginian, even though you may not live in-state now.

I've tweaked the weapon 94 rifle-grenades. The HEAT pen should be 75, not 100. As a matter of fact, I've changed many things in the USMC since 8.3.

For upgrade purposes, I usually change the BAR squads into Assault Squads (available in June 1943). The 2-man bazooka teams are just too fragile for me, but the assault squads pack a lot of firepower.

Lesson number one for using tanks in the Pacific--never ever advance them without having supporting infantry in the same hex-- you're better off by moving the infantry first, and then have the tanks follow up.

If you really want to understand the yearly changes made in the composition of Marine forces, you should pick up the three volumes of the "US Marine Corps Pacific Theater of Operations", written by Gordon Rottman and published by Osprey.

Simply put, as Japanese tactics switched from suicidal counterattacks to prepared defenses in depth, the Marines countered with concentrating ever-more automatic weapons into the rifle companies, and creating dedicated teams for bunker-busting. The light tanks of 1942 were replaced by Shermans in 1944, and flamethrowing tanks were introduced.

Part of my fascination with the USMC in WWII lies in the simple fact that as time passed, the roles of the opposing forces became ever-more polarized. The apocalyptic confrontation of irresistable force vs immovable object reached its apogee at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. No other theater of WWII came close to the ferocity and concentrated violence that these 1945 battles exhibited. To play these battles out, you fully understand why the atomic bombs were necessary, and also begin to understand that while I abhor war itself, I am an admirer of the US Marine Corps.

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
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