RE: Poll: How many players use C&C?

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RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/20/2005 4:46:03 AM

Captain Cruft

Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
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Yes.

But ... it really doesn't make any difference, at least not in PBEM Meeting Engagements.

(in reply to Riun T)

Post #: 31

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/20/2005 7:19:17 PM

tracer

Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline

No.

I've tried it many times, but the way the game engine chooses to move units under its control just isn't developed enough. After kicking it around for a few years, I decided that giving the AI additional units (vs. having my units 'behave' like their's do) results in a more realistic battle IMO. Its simply a matter of personal preference.

Note: threads on this topic (and there have been many) always devolve into fights!

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Post #: 32

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/20/2005 7:42:47 PM

stevemk1a

Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline

Nope

Too lazy to learn it!

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Post #: 33

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/21/2005 5:36:42 AM

baevans99

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

C&C = NO

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 34

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/21/2005 7:15:40 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
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Never use it. Its nice that its there, but I much prefer playing without it. I do try, however, to design my scenarios in such a way that if one choose to use it, the units at least begin the game "in contact."

WB

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Post #: 35

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/22/2005 12:54:44 AM

Major Destruction

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline

C&C ON? Yes whenever possible in pbem but rarely against the computer opponent.

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 36

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/22/2005 1:38:39 AM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

NEVER......I've had my share of "micro-management".....It sucks and does not work on the real battlefield, anymore than it does in this great game.

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Post #: 37

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/22/2005 6:18:51 PM

Procrustes

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Never use it. Its nice that its there, but I much prefer playing without it. I do try, however, to design my scenarios in such a way that if one choose to use it, the units at least begin the game "in contact."

WB

Very interesting, WB - you're scenarios play so well with it on that I just assumed you used it yourself! Many thanks for considering the rest of us when you design! Best,

Procrustes

(in reply to Wild Bill)

Post #: 38

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/25/2005 1:16:03 PM

Reg

Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline

Affirmative......

(since V1.0)

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Reg.

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Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 39

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/25/2005 5:22:00 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
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Something about 50/50 when playing user made scenarios (incl. my own) and If I would play PBEM, C&C surely would divide boys from men (when selecting the opponent).

If I would still play computer generated stuff, switching C&C on would not really add more fun to the game.

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RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/27/2005 5:19:59 AM

Adamo

Posts: 185
Joined: 3/14/2002
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I experimented with it for a while and I really like the idea of it----gives the battle a more 'real' feel to it, however, I felt that the game is complex enough that having to '
think' about issuing commands was a little 'too much'.

(in reply to RockinHarry)

Post #: 41

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/27/2005 6:36:45 AM

Dragoon 45

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Joined: 8/10/2004
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Only if I am playing another human player who insists on using it, otherwise I leave C&C off. I don't really think the C&C feature is all that historically correct expecially for the US or Germans where squad leaders and vehicle commanders exercised a lot of individual initiative especially after their Plt Ldr or Co Cdr was killed or wounded.

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RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 8/31/2005 6:10:12 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
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Sorry Gunny!

Couldn�t resist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragoon 45

Only if I am playing another human player who insists on using it, otherwise I leave C&C off. I don't really think the C&C feature is all that historically correct expecially for the US or Germans where squad leaders and vehicle commanders exercised a lot of individual initiative especially after their Plt Ldr or Co Cdr was killed or wounded.

IMO this is a lil bit much of a generalization!

On what command levels did US, germans (any any) ect. commanders excercised the mentioned individual initiative?! How did the excercised individual initiative influenced actions of neighboring units (if any)? Unfortunately direct take over of a company by a Plt. commander (or squad leader taking command of Cpy.) is not simulated in SPWAW, except in campaign play, but has actually nothing to do with the debated C&C feature.

C&C means that boundaries (assumed to extend towards the formation objective flag, about 3 hexes wide per squad!) are assigned on Plt. level and that the Plt. units are to move within the given boundaries. As said this gives a 3 hexes wide corridor that a single squad can move towards an objective. This is 150 meters or more and actually gives lots of freedom for single squad movement. For single vehicles with many movement points, the boundary even broadens considerably with distance! Not sure on what assumption this broadening of boundaries is based though.

Now the theorethical case when a Plt. commander takes over a Cpy. due to the loss of the Cpy. leader. Does that change the given company mission (objective, boundary, ect.) automatically? Normally the new Cpy. commander (formerly Plt. cdr) would continue the orginal mission by his own initiative. This is the point. If it would have been a commander from an army with low individual initiative, the Cpy. most likely would not have continued its mission due to the loss of the Cpy. commander. That surely depends upon type of mission, but I assume "attack" in this case. As said, this sort of stuff is not modelled in SPWAW. However, parts of the initiative system is reflected by the nations command ratings which affect amount of command points generated each turn.

Usually units are not just given movement boundaries, they are given fire boundaries/arcs as well! In SPWAW you can always target any enemy unit in range you like, which is pretty much unrealistic either. In this case C&C gives you more freedom as it was historically the case!

The C&C feature in SPWAW is pretty much balanced IMO. It integrates well into the SPWAW game system which in large parts is very abstracted anyway and gives an idea what (restricted) command and control is about. The best thing with C&C in SPWAW is that it can be either switched on or off by your decision! Many other games enforce you to play a game in certain ways without this choice.

Yet again a short summary from the game manual (page 75) about what C&C is meant to be:

"The SPWAW Command and Control system is not intended to be a realistic simulation of
command in the Second World War, but it is intended to force a player to do three things:

1. Think ahead. You have to think through a plan about where you want your troops to be at
least a couple of turns in advance. If you change your mind in the middle of a battle, you may
find your troops unable to comply with your new orders.

2. Maneuver by platoon. You are typically a battalion or regimental commander, commanding
several companies whose basic maneuver element is the platoon. SP: WAW units may be
squads and individual vehicles, but players need to think in terms of maneuvering platoons.

3. Pay attention to stance. Troops can be either advancing or defensively seeking cover.
Alternating platoons from supporting positions �in cover� with those carefully advancing will
greatly reduce casualties."

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Post #: 43

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 9/1/2005 3:53:51 AM

Riun T

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Joined: 7/31/2004
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Something else this does'nt tell ya is that even with C&C off the stance sellection button does matter for when u want your troops to stop advancing and searching the jungle out front of them,and most importantly DIG A FOX HOLE and keep an eye on the piece of dirt you've gotten to and second most importantly see where your neiboring squad is if u needed them!!??. RT

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Post #: 44

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 9/1/2005 5:04:58 AM

Korpraali V

Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Finland
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I don't use C&C

< Message edited by Korpraali V -- 9/1/2005 5:05:34 AM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Poll: How many players use C&C? - 9/1/2005 10:52:51 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline

Yes, except where the scenario recommends turning it off.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 46

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