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The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 9:08:07 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Panzer Leo's OOBs were based on SPWaW 7.1, which had flaws and led to the 8.0 series.

Some of you guys swear by this, but, other than the Germans, who are uberpowerful and have cool pictures, it is just for fun or does it have any basis for historical balance? If not, then you guys are engaging in nothing more than fantasy gaming.

Artur, I direct this to you in particular -- in real life, your nation's armed forces (Hungary)were a non-entity. SPwaW 8.4 shows the historical reality -- H2H just "feels right", eh?

How well did "feels right" go with this community during the development of the official 8.2-8.3 OOBs?

I DID take some of PZ Leo's pics & sound files for use in my personal OOBs-- these are worthwhile, and I thank him for these efforts.

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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 12:17:57 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I liked H2H's more prolific OOB's and the "hidden" damage from artillery..
Recently the OOB's have gotten much, much better, but I believe H2H was the catalyst.

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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 3:41:49 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Wow, pretty much deciding to take cheap shots at everyone, eh KG?



Goblin

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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 3:52:24 PM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1247
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Panzer Leo's OOBs were based on SPWaW 7.1, which had flaws and led to the 8.0 series.

Some of you guys swear by this, but, other than the Germans, who are uberpowerful and have cool pictures, it is just for fun or does it have any basis for historical balance? If not, then you guys are engaging in nothing more than fantasy gaming.

Artur, I direct this to you in particular -- in real life, your nation's armed forces (Hungary)were a non-entity. SPwaW 8.4 shows the historical reality -- H2H just "feels right", eh?

How well did "feels right" go with this community during the development of the official 8.2-8.3 OOBs?

I DID take some of PZ Leo's pics & sound files for use in my personal OOBs-- these are worthwhile, and I thank him for these efforts.

Considering that almost every SP support site out there with a ladder or large group of Pbem'ers primarilly use the H2H mod for their games I'd say that speaks volumes for what gamers like. So called fantasy or not.

< Message edited by Double Deuce -- 10/1/2005 3:54:28 PM >

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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 4:13:31 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Wow Gunny, that was kinda a cheap shot. H2H is a very good version, the pricing of certian things is the only problem I have with it.

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Post #: 5
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 4:19:52 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I do like the No casualties during artillery bombardments...
That is one of the things I wish SPWAW would implement.
I used to play H2H exclusively.
However since I began implementing all the Depots OOB project changes, I have shelved H2H for The Depot Multi Mod...
Plus I like the Passengers taking casualties that returned with 8.4
and now that the spotting routine has been adjusted, it will make it even better.


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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 7:51:52 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
H2H is the BEST SPWaW version IMO.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

Wow Gunny, that was kinda a cheap shot. H2H is a very good version, the pricing of certian things is the only problem I have with it.


V2, what exactly is your problem with the prices?

Artur.


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Post #: 7
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 7:59:41 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		The prices of some items like the RRs and Inf guns, and some of the German big arty is a little underpriced one of the 150mm ones if memory serves. Plus the bicycle infantry are messed up they don't take casualties like they should

The large majority of the prices I think are on target, especially the transports.

These are just my opions ofcourse

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Post #: 8
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 8:36:31 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

Wow Gunny, that was kinda a cheap shot. H2H is a very good version, the pricing of certian things is the only problem I have with it.


Yeah, it WAS a cheap shot. Sorry--guess I had a flashback to my OOB design team days -- the criticism that we got, even before 8.3 was released, was unbelievable. Oh, well, I suppose that's the price you pay for being a SWAG (secretive wizard and guru).


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Post #: 9
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 8:47:10 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

The prices of some items like the RRs and Inf guns, and some of the German big arty is a little underpriced one of the 150mm ones if memory serves. Plus the bicycle infantry are messed up they don't take casualties like they should

The large majority of the prices I think are on target, especially the transports.

These are just my opions ofcourse


Ok. Actually being with the Russians is somewhat easier in H2H and the ATR's have some starnge side effect with their HE ammo.
The arty problem is not that big IMHO - you have the 10% restriction. Actually the Germans are hanicapped because they do not have off-board 75mm arty in their arsenal and that is a cheap and effective asset.

IMO it is still the best SP version. It is my opinion of course :).

What do you mean by RR?

Artur.



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Post #: 10
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/1/2005 11:42:34 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sztartur

quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

The prices of some items like the RRs and Inf guns, and some of the German big arty is a little underpriced one of the 150mm ones if memory serves. Plus the bicycle infantry are messed up they don't take casualties like they should

The large majority of the prices I think are on target, especially the transports.

These are just my opions ofcourse


Ok. Actually being with the Russians is somewhat easier in H2H and the ATR's have some starnge side effect with their HE ammo.
The arty problem is not that big IMHO - you have the 10% restriction. Actually the Germans are hanicapped because they do not have off-board 75mm arty in their arsenal and that is a cheap and effective asset.

IMO it is still the best SP version. It is my opinion of course :).

What do you mean by RR?

Artur.




RR=Recoiless Rifle
bye....


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Post #: 11
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 12:37:47 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby



RR=Recoiless Rifle
bye....



Alby, are you "going Michael" on us?

Sometimes that's a good thing, as some of us tend to get verbose
and talk too much, you know, like jibber-jabbering and shooting the breeze and gabbing it up and chewing the fat and such.

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Post #: 12
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 12:43:19 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		heheh I am just being goofy today....

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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 12:55:42 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Oh no, its spreading...

Must resist urge...

bye....





Goblin

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Post #: 14
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 1:01:29 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline 		Thanks guys for the response.

Alby what do you have in mind with H2H?

Artur.


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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.", Sun Tzu

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Post #: 15
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 1:06:40 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Like I said...just throwing out feelers....


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Post #: 16
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 1:33:07 AM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

...

Artur, I direct this to you in particular -- in real life, your nation's armed forces (Hungary)were a non-entity. SPwaW 8.4 shows the historical reality -- H2H just "feels right", eh?

How well did "feels right" go with this community during the development of the official 8.2-8.3 OOBs?

...



Gunny how deeply have you researched the history of the so called "minor" nations?

Let me add something.
Regarding The Hungarian forces their leadership was quite well trained (admitted by the Germans) but had a lower morale -especially in Russia- and lacked the modern equipment.
Their Air force and artillery was very good.
On the other hand Rumanians had poor leadership and training while they had better morale than the Hungarians. In H2H the ratings are more or less fine. Being a non entity is easy to say while you are backed with everything you need. Try to stop the Russians in the winter with 37 or 45mm ATGs and summer clothes. I wonder how well could any army perform under those conditions. The Hungarians did hold on well in 44' in front of the Carpathians (where they used the Tigers)and in Transylvania, while the Rumanian troops had a very hard job at the Don and in Crimea.

The ratings in 8.3 are a joke IMO. If we get to the topic what feels right in 8.3 I experienced the super allied tank effect a lot when Tiger/Panther shots __from close range__ were regularly bouncing off the T34s and Shermans. It is good for game ballance but it is not very historical so to say... Not to mention the OOBs in 8.3 were by far less accurate. (Eg Hungarian Tiger in 43' - they got them in 44'). I rather feel like in 8.3 playability very much over-came the historical accuracy IMO. I hate to say this but SPWaW 8.3/8.4 seems to be a dead-end until now. H2H is still by far the best SPWaW version.

Artur.



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Post #: 17
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 2:03:19 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I personally appreciate (and use) the Depot's OOB..Everything was researched, with referances, and votes were even taken on EVERY single change, so both sides could be heard from,(I.E. play balance and historical-correctness)..
I have no problems with this version................
I very much like the hidden arty effects in Leo's H2H, but this has not been implemented in SPWAW yet.
I believe eventually a "patch" will change this.

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Post #: 18
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 4:22:29 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		In theory it shouldn't be too hard to port over the H2H mech.exe hacks to the 8.x version. Including the hidden casualties thing.

Ditto the sounds and icons etc.

There is no reason the Depot OOB (or any OOB) can't be used with the H2H stuff, it just involves work :)

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Post #: 19
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 10:18:43 AM   
PimpYourAFV

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/30/2005
From: Japan
Status: offline
What does 'hidden arty' mean? I don't know anything about h2h accept from the AARs I thought it was for multiplayer to make all the nations have equal units or something so Germany doesn't have uber armor units. I may be way offbase with this impression.

Does artillery in h2h do more damage? I noticed the arty in 8.4 did no damage at all so I set it to 140 soft & hard for both sides and now get small casualties like 1-3 from hits on infantry. I think that's about realistic cause I've read in different places that arty caused like 75% of the casualties in WWII so boosting it to 140 makes it more realistic. What about in that mod? Is h2h the same as 7.1 or something?


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Post #: 20
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 2:23:01 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Its seems in H2H arty is more deadly as far as causing casualties to infantry, thats my experience anyway. I have never raised my arty up it seems that 100% is fine IMO

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Post #: 21
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 6:28:37 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TokyoBoyTensai


What does 'hidden arty' mean? I don't know anything about h2h accept from the AARs I thought it was for multiplayer to make all the nations have equal units or something so Germany doesn't have uber armor units. I may be way offbase with this impression.

Does artillery in h2h do more damage? I noticed the arty in 8.4 did no damage at all so I set it to 140 soft & hard for both sides and now get small casualties like 1-3 from hits on infantry. I think that's about realistic cause I've read in different places that arty caused like 75% of the casualties in WWII so boosting it to 140 makes it more realistic. What about in that mod? Is h2h the same as 7.1 or something?



When your arty hits, it does not give away casualty reports, letting you know that you have hit something, like it does now in SPWAW


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RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 6:48:11 PM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Panzer Leo's OOBs were based on SPWaW 7.1, which had flaws and led to the 8.0 series.

Some of you guys swear by this, but, other than the Germans, who are uberpowerful and have cool pictures, it is just for fun or does it have any basis for historical balance? If not, then you guys are engaging in nothing more than fantasy gaming.

Artur, I direct this to you in particular -- in real life, your nation's armed forces (Hungary)were a non-entity. SPwaW 8.4 shows the historical reality -- H2H just "feels right", eh?
.

I completely disagree. The changes in H2H were IMHO a vast improvement over 7.1 and far from fantasy gaming, paint a much more historical picture of the war. If a nation had certain advantages then chances are it is reflected more so in H2H than in any of the V8 series despite gaming balance (which funnily enough is there). As for the Germans being uber powerful, they are much stronger in 8.4 thanks to the cut in everyone elses Exp/morale ratings.
Where do you come up with this stuff ?... I won't even start on the "Hungarian non entity" comment.

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Post #: 23
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 6:58:30 PM   
sztartur2


Posts: 672
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Budapest,Hungary
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: soldier

The changes in H2H were IMHO a vast improvement over 7.1 and far from fantasy gaming, paint a much more historical picture of the war. If a nation had certain advantages then chances are it is reflected more so in H2H than in any of the V8 series despite gaming balance (which funnily enough is there). As for the Germans being uber powerful, they are much stronger in 8.4 thanks to the cut in everyone elses Exp/morale ratings.
Where do you come up with this stuff ?...



I completely agree with the statement above. I won't even comment more on the Hungarians being a non entity , Gunny's doing strange things around here lately.

Artur.



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Post #: 24
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/2/2005 11:47:15 PM   
mattenhoff

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 10/13/2003
Status: offline 		Gunny, you posted exactly the same post at the Depot!

Been fishing lately, have you?

What's the point, man?

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Post #: 25
RE: The Fandom For H2H - 10/3/2005 1:14:13 AM   
PimpYourAFV

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 9/30/2005
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby


When your arty hits, it does not give away casualty reports, letting you know that you have hit something, like it does now in SPWAW



Okay thanks. That sounds like a good idea for sure.

(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 26
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