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RE: Now I'm drooling...

 
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RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 4:50:54 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

The freeze thing didn't bother me so much. If you got another German group into the fight before the first group withdrew then the second group would cover the withdrawal of the first group. Sooner or later the spitfires would also have to withdraw and if you managed to insert a German group just before that point the spits would be torn to pieces. Hello to all the guys from JC's forum. Did anyone invite Harley?


This is just the point that bugs me. I either have to let the allies take a massive free shot at me or I have to take a massive free shot at them. What should happen is the same kind of fights you get when intercepts are made from any other angle than dead ahead.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

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Post #: 31
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 8:09:00 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

This is good news for me, but as far as the prior BTR fixer guy getting involved I'm not so sure. The 1.5 fix brought the death-ray which I've argued about to a small extent on this forum with Hard_Sarge and him (some Jeane-Claude or something). His fix got rid of one problem that was disgusting (planes not catching up to Allied planes [staying on cruise speeds]), but that same patch, though it may not have been due to that particular fix, caused another. The whole thing left quite a bitter taste in my mouth, particularly since GG was pretty much absent from it pretty quickly and though I could recreate it, it didn't seem to bother enough people for anyone to try to fix it (as though a lot of people were complaing about JG26 being on the wrong airfield, etc.). Maybe with some help JC can figure out the death-ray solution (assuming anyone but me cares). I guess the main thing would be to wait to see once this is redone whether the bane of my BTR play for so many years will had been removed.


First; I think what you are referring to is the freeze ray. Specifically, when an intercept is made from the same or higher altitude in the forward 30 degrees of the target unit then all aircraft freeze in place till they run out of fuel. Hard Sarge also seems to believe this is what you mean.

If so; this is a hard coded problem that has been there from the start. JC did not cause it. The last OB made it slightly (very slightly in my opinion) worse.

Next; even if JC had broken half a dozen things with his work it would be a crime not to take advantage of the vast contribution he has made if in fact he is willing to have his work included. This is a moot point at the moment however as he seems to currently be incognito.

As to the bitter taste; I will have to second that one. The general reaction to my comments on the problem were very much of the “who cares” and “it’s not a bug its supposed to be that way” and “it represents a fur ball”. I of coarse have never heard of an hour long aerial fight where no damage occurred but then who am I, certainly not an expert. I wouldn’t know JG26 was on the wrong field and worse couldn’t care less now that I know it.



Well you and I certainly think alike. I must tell you though, from my pre-1.5 playing, that the freeze ray did not appear, ever, seriously. I don't know how much of the planes's graphics is allowed to sit straight at each other and still look graphically as dead-on, but I never saw it occur with any sort of angle but dead-on. It's good to know somebody else out there saw it even worse than I did; sort of.

(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 32
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 8:11:38 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richrd

The freeze thing didn't bother me so much. If you got another German group into the fight before the first group withdrew then the second group would cover the withdrawal of the first group. Sooner or later the spitfires would also have to withdraw and if you managed to insert a German group just before that point the spits would be torn to pieces. Hello to all the guys from JC's forum. Did anyone invite Harley?


I didn't think of a trick like that, but then again when you have deficit fighters and the USA comes full force, or seems to, that first turn, you don't have much fighters to spare. then you have to hope the next turn in miserable weather.

(in reply to Richrd)
Post #: 33
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 8:14:48 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		I wonder if any of you guys ever noticed, that you could stop an Allied airfield attack with just one plane, using the freeze ray if you wanted. Ridiculous.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 34
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 12:31:14 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

I wonder if any of you guys ever noticed, that you could stop an Allied airfield attack with just one plane, using the freeze ray if you wanted. Ridiculous.


in one of the versions that was nearly always true, but at the moment it happens less often (~ 30% )

Werner

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 35
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 1:44:10 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

Hello to all the guys from JC's forum. Did anyone invite Harley?


not sure what you mean ? invite here to this forum ? (if so, he has known about this place for years, and comes here alot, also knows the news about Talonsoft)

if you mean the freese ray, he also did testing on it

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Post #: 36
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 1:53:51 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		You guys are really confusing me (maybe not so HARD to do anymore)

one post, this is a bad thing for the GE player, next post it is a good thing for the GE player, it is a bug (you think) that ruins the game, then it is with out this tactic, you could not play the game

come on gang, we can't have it both ways

odd, the post about on the first day and the overwelming number of US planes ????

the GE is never going to be as strong as they are on the first day

if the AI, sent out the entire 8th FC on the first day, on sweeps, I Would be danceing for Joy

thing that still bugs (oops) me about this thing, is the player has to do it

I'll run some more tests



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Post #: 37
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 2:05:59 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline
Hi All,

The freeze ray bug effects both Allied and Axis players.

Playing as the Axis it is possible for the smallest Axis element (in the case of the game a kette of 3 a/c) to intercept an incoming Allied sweep and stop it dead, but from my experience it is always the Axis a/c that break off first even though they may have only just taken off. Whilst the freeze ray is in effect no movement across the map or combat occurs.

von Shagmeister

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 38
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 2:38:43 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

You guys are really confusing me (maybe not so HARD to do anymore)

one post, this is a bad thing for the GE player, next post it is a good thing for the GE player, it is a bug (you think) that ruins the game, then it is with out this tactic, you could not play the game

come on gang, we can't have it both ways

odd, the post about on the first day and the overwelming number of US planes ????

the GE is never going to be as strong as they are on the first day

if the AI, sent out the entire 8th FC on the first day, on sweeps, I Would be danceing for Joy

thing that still bugs (oops) me about this thing, is the player has to do it

I'll run some more tests




I'm sorry it's so hard for non-Gerry players to understand.

You do one thing and you gype the Allies, you do the other and you gype yourself. I must say i never threw "more" planes into the sty, as someone suggested, so I have no idea what that would do, only it seems fairly dumb on the face of it, excpet to get your guy out unmolested, because you would think that would result in making the freeze go on longer, however, if that recuer came from a different angle you might have something there.

Let me illustrate what happens:

1. You need to figure out just what airfield is fixing to get hit. Not easy for a rookie German player.
2. Scramble your opposition making sure your planes hit them head-on.
3. Watch the freeze ray.

Now I put it that way not because any GE player deliberately tries to hit them square on, despite what you seem to believe, but because this is quite frequently what will have to be faced in order to interfere with your airfield being struck. Fighters aren't terribly easy to pick up on radar, if the radar even works any more, and what's more their closing speed is very rapid. Often the only thing that can be done is to attack them from the front. Often they are detected and the target identified so late that your plane intercepts over the airfield itself or too late. The idea, is to intercpet before they get there, which if the attacker is a mere 2-3 hexes away will mean that only something out of the target intercepting, more times than not, will have a chance.

So in other words, the player can avoid it, but only if he doesn't mind those more troublesome FG raids going by completely unchecked on the way to the target. You let them come, or you freeze them and then one side or the other gets gyped. I'm not sure ALL headons freeze like this (which are airfield raids), as someone had earlier mentioned altitude superiority and such, but who doesn't want that anyway when intercepting? I'm starting to think you're incapable of understanding this. All I can say is that it happens frequently enough, for something that's not supposed to happen to make a good many intercept attempts a joke.

Maybe there's some sort of logic to this thing. Though I repeat that I never saw this before 1.5, if it were before that version, if GG had put it in the game deliberately, such that he might say that if an FG were going to an airfield they might always stop and engage any enemy FG's along the way instead, fine and good perhaps, but seeing how they don't even fight would mean it was very poorly implemented. You don't see escorts stopping when they are "actually fighting".

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 39
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/9/2005 4:17:28 PM   
wernerpruckner


Posts: 4148
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

Well you and I certainly think alike. I must tell you though, from my pre-1.5 playing


you mean 1.05 exe ?? or OA/OB ??
you can create the freeze ray with nearly every exe version, but the FR bug is probably one of the tiniest bugs, and in a PBEm you can work around it.
Other bugs were and are game destroying - like the Dover/Belfast bug ( or pingpong bug) - this damn thing is still in it, and it is annoying to start a huge 8th AF armada in late 44 in the moring and at 22:00 it is still circling above some frontline Flak fortresses. Or you start a raid and they fly back to the base and than back to the target and so on.... no way to play around it.

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 40
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 8:18:26 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swift

quote:

Well you and I certainly think alike. I must tell you though, from my pre-1.5 playing


you mean 1.05 exe ?? or OA/OB ??
you can create the freeze ray with nearly every exe version, but the FR bug is probably one of the tiniest bugs, and in a PBEm you can work around it.
Other bugs were and are game destroying - like the Dover/Belfast bug ( or pingpong bug) - this damn thing is still in it, and it is annoying to start a huge 8th AF armada in late 44 in the moring and at 22:00 it is still circling above some frontline Flak fortresses. Or you start a raid and they fly back to the base and than back to the target and so on.... no way to play around it.



Yes, I was talking about the executable, or at least whatever they're referring to in this game when a new patch came out. I just never saw it before that. I don't know about the tinyness of it, afterall I'm hit with often enough from day1 onwards. This Dover is apparently so very, very deep in the game I never ran into it. In fact though apparently some won't understand it, the stupid FR, which nobody ever offered me a suggestion to work around, except here now, was so disgusting to me there was no point in even playing beyond the first month. I guess it's debateable whether when you meet a game-ending bug whether it's better to meet one from the start or go quite deep into the game and first meet it. I think if I had found a way to get around the shameful FR, only to run into something else just as bad, or as you say worse, that would be the last straw.

(in reply to wernerpruckner)
Post #: 41
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 2:27:56 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Charles
not trying to start a fight, but I think one of the hassles is you don't read what others write, I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

and also, I have said, I do play as the GE, so the non Gerry statement is wrong, I am a better GE player then I am a Allied player, I just play the game more from the Allied side

I have tested it, I have asked questions about it, I have prodded JC about it, I have written pages about how to make it happen and how to avoid it, what it does, and what it doesn't do, what happens inside the game while it is going on

so I think I understand what you are talking about, and have tried to find a fix for you

so lets just keep discussing things, and stop with the insults/smart remarks

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do




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Post #: 42
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 3:22:42 PM   
Banquet

 

Posts: 1184
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: England
Status: offline 		I have BOB and have been looking for BTR for ages but was unable to get a copy. If Matrix can re-make/re-publish it I'd definitely be buying a copy.. great news indeed!

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 43
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 4:01:53 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi Banquet.

Yes this is good news all around for the gaming community. A great game will be made even better.

Steven

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WitE Tester
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Post #: 44
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 5:43:00 PM   
Farfarer61

 

Posts: 713
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		Looking forward to it. I echo the "JCL Rocks" having played through all his great mods.

Far aka "Cdr Dan" from the BTR ezboard

(in reply to Richrd)
Post #: 45
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 5:55:54 PM   
von Shagmeister


Posts: 1273
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Dromahane, Ireland
Status: offline 		Hi Farfarer,

It's good that many of the old crew are still in circulation.

Regards

von Shagmeister

< Message edited by von Shagmeister -- 10/10/2005 5:56:02 PM >

(in reply to Farfarer61)
Post #: 46
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 6:45:35 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		I agree VS. Good to see. BTR forum may have been quiet in recent months but the guys are out there and have heard their calling

Regards,

Steven

_____________________________

WitE 2 Tester
WitE Tester
BTR/BoB Tester

(in reply to von Shagmeister)
Post #: 47
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/10/2005 7:02:35 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		HI Cdr Dan, how it going matey



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Post #: 48
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 9:18:38 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it


Here is the heart of the contention. It is this “we can’t be sure it’s a bug” attitude that is peeving Charles. Do you really think that a game designer of GGs stature is going to intentionally put in such a routine? Acknowledge it is a bug and then we can discuss how important it is and what the workarounds and drawbacks are. Frankly, you sound like a Microsoft programmer. (I know, that was a really low blow)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it


NO, you have to make the bug work. If we had to MAKE the bug work we wouldn’t ever see it and wouldn’t give a ****. I retrofitted to 1.03/1.03 today to refresh myself on what once was. The very first raid the very first day got stuck. All I was doing was blasting through a turn to get a save to look at. If the allies use sweeps and the axis uses the intercept you will get freezes. You will not have to work at it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do


While I can’t speak for Charles, this is all I am looking for. I want the parameters of the bug hashed out, and any concessions to reducing it that have been made (like reducing endurance on aircraft) cataloged so that it can be squashed with the least effort and no side effects.

And for the record I was unaware that anyone had asked you to do anything.


_____________________________

TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 49
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 4:26:56 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

And for the record I was unaware that anyone had asked you to do anything.


this has been going on for a while, here at the matrix fourm

I brought it back to the BTR forums

when it was brought up, and after talking with Charles, I said I would look into it for him and see what I could find out

by the by, just in case, you don't understand, we sent a list of things to Matrix that needs to be looked at/fixed

we included the Freese Ray (in Fact, I included the Freese Ray as needing to be looked into)

other then that, I don't know what else, I/we can do

we can talk about the good things, we can talk about the bad things, we can talk about what we would like to see, and what we would not like to see

but until we hear something from Matrix, we are just beating a dead horse now



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Post #: 50
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 4:27:43 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Well I'M drooling... not over BOTR which I bought, played once, then discarded as being far too...well, big. I desperately wanted a Staff to take over most of it.

But BoB is inherently smaller, more easily managed by my poor, simple and tired brain. This one I played a few times before something happened - I forget what, it may have been a bug issue but more likely I just got caught up in something else.

I'd sill like an option for the Staff to take over most of it - and let me take Command where I felt it was needed - but BoB is the title I'm looking forward to out of this pair.

Steve.

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Post #: 51
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 4:37:00 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Steve
yes, I am drooling too
sorry the post keeps getting side tracked (I tried to get another post going so it could be carried over to there)

to be honest, I really hope the BTR Interface can be ported over to BoB (improved would be better, but updated to at least)

BoB is a little ruff to play once you have mastered BTR

Hmmm, don't know if many people can make that kind of statement

LOL not many people can really say they have WON that game :)
(as Gerry maybe, but few and far between as Allied)

you want BoB, tell you the Truth, I want BoB and BTR and AWoR

(Air War over Russia)

then again, BftM would be fun too

(Battle for the Med)

oh well, guess I go play basketball while I wait


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Post #: 52
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 8:33:56 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Hey, what I really, really want would be, I guess, WitP moved to the ETO. But that's a little beyond the scope if this discussion...

You say BoB is "a little ruff" after BTR. Care to expand on that that a little?

Steve.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 53
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/11/2005 9:07:55 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		oh sorry
what I mean is with BTR being the 2nd Generation of the game, the UI and other things were improved, but BoB still has the old style UI

say go to the unit page, in BTR, it lists the units kills, in BoB, you got to go to unit page, then go to pilots, to see how many kills the unit has, and then, that is if nobody has been killed that had kills

in BTR you can do sorts, just by clicking on a title, in BoB you have to scroll down the list to find what you need

BTR while being bigger, is also in the long run, easier to play, find out info

so after playing BTR for a long time, it is HARD to go back to BoB and not be able to do what you do with out even thinking about it



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Post #: 54
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 9:30:45 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Charles
not trying to start a fight, but I think one of the hassles is you don't read what others write, I have told how to work around this issue from the beginning, not just came up with something now, if it is a bug, it is a easy bug to avoid, you have to make the bug work, if you don't, you don't get it

and also, I have said, I do play as the GE, so the non Gerry statement is wrong, I am a better GE player then I am a Allied player, I just play the game more from the Allied side

I have tested it, I have asked questions about it, I have prodded JC about it, I have written pages about how to make it happen and how to avoid it, what it does, and what it doesn't do, what happens inside the game while it is going on

so I think I understand what you are talking about, and have tried to find a fix for you

so lets just keep discussing things, and stop with the insults/smart remarks

if Matrix does remake the game, maybe they can find a way to fix/change this so it doesn't ruin the game for you, other then that, there is nothing else I can do





Note: I wrote this as thoughts were progressing. Do not assume that my first thought remained throughout, but I think it better left the way I went through it.

Sorry HS, but I left that forum precisely for the reasons I've seen here (with the exception that someone had 'something' of a workaround here). My comments about the lack of attention to people playing the GE side (their problems, such as FR of course) was more of a general comment to the whole situation. I stayed around that forum long enough to see that there was no solution to the problem, especially since people kept denying it was a problem, which of course there were no proposed solutions for something that kept being denied. And I've seen it on these forums too; same treatment. At least this time somebody came up with some possible workarounds, though they're insufficient. The bug don't go away either, by insultingly blaming it on the user because he happens to want to defend northern airfields.

TaggedYa told me in another thread that he thinks he saw an FR in the south only once, whereas I can't recall any. Why? For one thing because there isn't anything down there worth saving. There's no intercepting down there that can't be done elsewhere, and on top of that all that territory will be lost very quickly. All factors which are the opposite in northern Germany/Belgium. In other words, if the way to get around FR was to pull everything back, I suspect TY did that as I did, but the north is another thing again. If you did that, as surely you must, seeing as how you keep acting like FR is so hard to do, I feel for your game, but, then again, feel even worse for my game, because there's a bug that won't let me play it.

If I hadn't made myself clear, the throw-more-planes-into-the-alleged-melee isn't a workable solution for me. IF it truly works, then the best thing to do is try to intercept as usual, hoping for no FR, and then if one occurs to throw in 1-3 planes to ensure both that your planes get away clean, and also that the enemy doesn't hurt too much either (for 1-3 planes aren't that good). Nice, not bad. Only one problem though, and here's the reason it isn't sufficient, because when I get an FR, I can stop the raid every single time from getting to it's target. There are no such assurances in war.

I see your point now, I think. The FR isn't as much as a bogeyman as it was before, because I can always come up with 1-3 planes to get my guys off (assuming it works), but then there's the other end of the deal about airfield defense assurance. So what you're saying is that Dover and the other bug you mentioned are worse than this (as opposed to an FR with no workable solution, which is where I had been seeing you)? Well maybe, but FR is still junky even if it isn't the worst bug, assuming the workaround works.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 55
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 1:39:56 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

oh sorry
what I mean is with BTR being the 2nd Generation of the game, the UI and other things were improved, but BoB still has the old style UI

say go to the unit page, in BTR, it lists the units kills, in BoB, you got to go to unit page, then go to pilots, to see how many kills the unit has, and then, that is if nobody has been killed that had kills

in BTR you can do sorts, just by clicking on a title, in BoB you have to scroll down the list to find what you need

BTR while being bigger, is also in the long run, easier to play, find out info

so after playing BTR for a long time, it is HARD to go back to BoB and not be able to do what you do with out even thinking about it


Okay, I'm now officially confused.

The game I have is, clearly, an different version of what you're talking about. The disk is from Talonsoft, is called 'Aces High' and there may or may not be a subtitle. I can't recall, I'm at work and unaccountably my boss gets annoyed when I up and leave to look at a game disk! But the interface is, near enough, identical to BoB. So, was 'Aces High' re-released/enhanced as BTR, or are they actually different games?

Steve.


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(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 56
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 2:21:01 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Aces High is a flight simulator, whereas BTR is roughly a strategic turn-based game.

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 57
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 2:57:09 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Steve
I think you may have the title wrong, the title of the game is 12 o clock high, bombing the reich

which the way players are, we shorten it, so it becomes BTR

ahh, the interface looks very, very close, but there are differences and improvements to BTR over BoB

say the data page, in BoB, you have a little dot to click on, and it brings up a 3D image and the details on the plane, in BTR you click on the plane name, and it brings up a page with a screen shot of the plane and info on it

ahh, again the data page, in BoB, all the planes are listed together, in BTR they have a Allied and a GE Page

the unit pages, while close, are not the same

I think I can do some cut and pasteing, and will see if that can show you want I mean



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(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 58
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 3:16:38 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Charles, if you took that statement as a Insult, I will say I am sorry, that is not the intent of what I was trying to say, beleive me when I say that was not the intent of the statement

when I say, you casue the bug to happen, I mean you have to plot the intercept, if you pull your planes off of the field you think will be attacked and put them into a patrol, then you can control the angle that they will attack the raid

my fault, as most of the GE players I know from the BTR boards, attack out of the patrol, and do not use the Intercept command from the bases
I assumed you would also, so my comment was if you were to patrol, and attack, you would not get this (of course, if you place the patrol, right in front of the FG, you may get the same thing)

from what I know of the game, I for the most part, would rather let a sweep find the target (as you say of 200 planes)(unless, I got a full gruppen stuck there that can't get up) a large Sweep is going to get ripped apart by the AA, even a small number of guns will tear a large Sweep up

also, you may be very unlucky in your games, the AI for the most part, will send out more fighters with bombs, the fighters in a sweep

but again, I am not working on the game, we do not know if Matrix is going to work the game, rework the game, or let it die

so until we do, this is just beating a dead horse

it is a shame you feel that way about our board, you may of been there at the wrong time, we have a very strong GE player base there

and again, the beta testers from JC's OOB sent a list and details of all the known bugs, hassles and complaints that we knew of to Matrix, so they would have something to work on, if they decide to work on it, and we did include your complaints(and others) about the Freese Ray



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(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 59
RE: Now I'm drooling... - 10/12/2005 4:36:09 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Steve
here are some combined snaps, hopefully it will show a little of what I mean

this should show the unit page of JG I/54 from BoB and the unit page of 356th FG in BTR

not much difference, but you will see some








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(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 60
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