Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 9:47:04 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		I set some A6M2 fighter groups to fighter sweep from French Frigate sholls to Pearl Harbor. Their altitude was 13000 and 12000. After sweeping, they dropped down to strafe and got slaughtered by AA. What the hell? I thought fighters on sweep missions would only strafe if you set their altitude setting to the lowest possible. Did they change that? How can I get my fighter groups to sweep without strafing? By the way, the strafing didn't produce any enemy kills either.
Post #: 1
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 9:48:59 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Sounds like you had some guys that were a little zealous to be kamikazes.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to your question.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 2
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 9:51:36 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		I found the answer in the manual. :(

Planes on a Sweep Mission will always drop to 100 feet and strafe (taking flak at their set
altitude and again at 100 feet).

I guess I was remembering UV.

They should change it back to the way it was so taht we can sweep without dropping down to get slaughtered by flak.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 3
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 9:55:36 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Fly an airfield attack mission. You stay at whatever altitude you come in at.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 4
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 9:57:17 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Not for fighters and fighter bombers employed as such. They will not strafe, but they will use the 2000 foot default bombing height when attacking with bombs.

_____________________________


(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 5
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 10:09:55 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		Ahh, thats true. But AA at 2000 is less than at 100

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 6
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 10:13:19 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		They donīt drop to 100 feet always. If they encounter fighters on CAP and fight they normally donīt drop to strafe the airfield. If I order a sweep over an airfield without fighter cover they always drop down to strafe though.

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 7
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 10:20:15 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		true, but not by much

_____________________________


(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 8
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 10:43:30 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		If the result you want is to only engage the enemy CAP (no bombing strafing), you might try the LRCAP mission.

I'm not sure if it would work, but they definately wouldn't attack the AF.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 9
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 10:48:47 PM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

If the result you want is to only engage the enemy CAP (no bombing strafing), you might try the LRCAP mission.

I'm not sure if it would work, but they definately wouldn't attack the AF.

-F-


Combine this with a recon mission. I found this by accident once. The LRCAP will "escort" the recon plane and engage.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 10
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/6/2005 11:36:42 PM   
doktorblood


Posts: 648
Joined: 2/14/2003
Status: offline 		I wouldn't be too quick to use fighters on airfield strike unless I was pretty sure there isn't any enemy cap around. Fighters on strike mission get bounced hard by enemy cap and suffer horribly.

_____________________________


(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 11
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/7/2005 12:07:14 AM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

They donīt drop to 100 feet always. If they encounter fighters on CAP and fight they normally donīt drop to strafe the airfield. If I order a sweep over an airfield without fighter cover they always drop down to strafe though.


Well, in the two days they did their sweep, both times they faced significant CAP (it was Pearl Harbor after all). They still dropped down to strafe. :(

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 12
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/7/2005 1:01:34 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

They donīt drop to 100 feet always. If they encounter fighters on CAP and fight they normally donīt drop to strafe the airfield. If I order a sweep over an airfield without fighter cover they always drop down to strafe though.


Well, in the two days they did their sweep, both times they faced significant CAP (it was Pearl Harbor after all). They still dropped down to strafe. :(

Strange, I don't ever recall seeing sweepers go down to strafe in my current games; kept waiting to see it but haven't. Is yours a new start and fresh? Most of the time Japanese planes sweep my bases and I think they will I just stand down and watch them fly over and wave at them. Ours is not a fresh game, so perhaps there was a change in code that didn't upgrade with the rest of the patches.


_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 13
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/7/2005 6:41:04 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

They donīt drop to 100 feet always. If they encounter fighters on CAP and fight they normally donīt drop to strafe the airfield. If I order a sweep over an airfield without fighter cover they always drop down to strafe though.


That is correct. I've swept Imphal on several occasions with CAP present and have always engaged the CAP and not strafed the field.

The only part of the other statements I can't relate to is whether they will always drop to 100' to strafe without CAP.

Chez



_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 14
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/7/2005 12:46:37 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

quote:

They donīt drop to 100 feet always. If they encounter fighters on CAP and fight they normally donīt drop to strafe the airfield. If I order a sweep over an airfield without fighter cover they always drop down to strafe though.


That is correct. I've swept Imphal on several occasions with CAP present and have always engaged the CAP and not strafed the field.

The only part of the other statements I can't relate to is whether they will always drop to 100' to strafe without CAP.

Chez




Yes they donīt ALWAYS drop down if no CAP over the field but most times in my games. But I had them never drop down if CAP is engaging. I always hope to engage CAP because if they donīt they drop and get beaten by flak.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 15
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/7/2005 1:13:33 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I set some A6M2 fighter groups to fighter sweep from French Frigate sholls to Pearl Harbor. Their altitude was 13000 and 12000. After sweeping, they dropped down to strafe and got slaughtered by AA. What the hell? I thought fighters on sweep missions would only strafe if you set their altitude setting to the lowest possible. Did they change that? How can I get my fighter groups to sweep without strafing? By the way, the strafing didn't produce any enemy kills either.


This is strange!

I asked this very same question long long time ago (when WitP was released) and I was told that this was error in manual and that straffing can only occur when altitude is set to 100ft...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 16
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/8/2005 3:13:43 AM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

I asked this very same question long long time ago (when WitP was released) and I was told that this was error in manual and that straffing can only occur when altitude is set to 100ft...


Leo "Apollo11"


Yeah, that's what I thought too. I hope they change it in the next patch. At least then we would have some control over it and not have our pilots diving down to their death.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 17
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/8/2005 11:32:32 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi
I have tried to reproduce this under version 1.6, but have not been able to.
(a) Fighters on sweep at 13K' against CAP, engage CAP. Don't straffe base even if they defeat CAP.
(b) Fighters on sweep at 13K' against no CAP, don't straffe base.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/01/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Buna , at 55,90

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5 [sweep at 13000', no CAP]

No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24 [sweep at 13000']

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 1 [CAP at 10000']

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 1 destroyed

(c) Fighters on sweep at 100' will straffe base, if can get past CAP if any.

Please advise program version.
If you have a save where it is happening, pls send me (michaelm75@hotmail.com)

Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

I asked this very same question long long time ago (when WitP was released) and I was told that this was error in manual and that straffing can only occur when altitude is set to 100ft...


Leo "Apollo11"


Yeah, that's what I thought too. I hope they change it in the next patch. At least then we would have some control over it and not have our pilots diving down to their death.



< Message edited by michaelm -- 10/8/2005 4:03:54 PM >

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 18
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/8/2005 3:44:54 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Okay, after a rest and about an hour and half of trying I have found one way to get fighters on Sweep to drop to 100' and straffe.

If the defending CAP is at 100', the sweeping fighters will drop and engage CAP, then straffe and get eaten by flak.

I don't know if this is happening in case in question.
Same attacking parameters as last post, but CAP at 100' instead of 10000'

Day Air attack on Port Moresby , at 53,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24 [set to sweep at 13000']

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 1 [CAP at 100']

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged [Flak losses]

Allied aircraft losses
Wirraway: 1 destroyed [A2A loss]

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x A6M2 Zero strafing at 100 feet

Michael

< Message edited by michaelm -- 10/8/2005 3:46:07 PM >

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 19
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/8/2005 6:56:43 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Okay, after a rest and about an hour and half of trying I have found one way to get fighters on Sweep to drop to 100' and straffe.

If the defending CAP is at 100', the sweeping fighters will drop and engage CAP, then straffe and get eaten by flak.


Oh my...

Great find - thanks Michael!


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 20
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/8/2005 10:10:50 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		It looks like Michael is right. I checked and the P-39D group was set to CAP at 100 feet. Stupid cheating AI. Taking advantage of its own bug.

Here is the same combat once I set the P-39D to 8000 feet -- no strafing!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 21
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/9/2005 5:21:35 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Smart AI!
Using fighter trap
Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

It looks like Michael is right. I checked and the P-39D group was set to CAP at 100 feet. Stupid cheating AI. Taking advantage of its own bug.

Here is the same combat once I set the P-39D to 8000 feet -- no strafing!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 22
RE: Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet - 10/9/2005 9:55:45 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Smart AI!
Using fighter trap
Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

It looks like Michael is right. I checked and the P-39D group was set to CAP at 100 feet. Stupid cheating AI. Taking advantage of its own bug.

Here is the same combat once I set the P-39D to 8000 feet -- no strafing!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 10
P-40E Warhawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Eating P's are good for you.

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 23
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Stupid Zeros strafing from 13000 feet Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.500