RE: Puresim versus OOTP

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RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 10/24/2005 7:54:46 AM

ravinhood

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Well hrmmm if you want to get into really one of the best all time computer baseball sims. I think MICRO LEAGUE BASEBALL was darn good and it had little animations also and you could see where the ball was hit. It didn't have all the bells and whistles of today though and certainly no career mode or general manager type play, but, for a replay it was pretty darn good. In fact I used to use it in Las Vegas to make bets on baseball games and did rather well using it.

And Front Page Sports Baseball was an all time favorite also, I do enjoy the animations, but, I want a "one pitch" mode of play if I'm using animations. Reading text or seeing some little blip go out into the field doesn't really do it for me for animations.

(in reply to ChrisJohnson)

Post #: 31

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/16/2006 8:08:06 AM

DandricSturm

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silverbullet

I am currently playing the FM Mgr. Gold Demo.
It is very good in managing a team, but not having any idea about the sport of soccer I haven't a clue what is going on.
Loaning out players??
Players being taken from your team to play for "their countries"?
Possible "bug" of injuies up the gazoo?
It is my opinion if you understand the sport of soccer, as well as many Americans understand Baseball and American Football this is probably a very good sport sim.
But as I have already stated I am clueless and cannot enjoy it.

I've been interested in FM for a while even though you couldn't drag me to a live soccer match. I just had to see the world's best sim. I finally got around to buying Worldwide Soccer Manager 2006. I've had it for two days now, I still am not a soccer fan, but all I can say about it is WOW.

_____________________________

"The Guns, Thank God, The Guns..." - Rudyard Kipling
http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/

(in reply to Silverbullet)

Post #: 32

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/16/2006 3:12:54 PM

Beach23BoyP

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DandricSturm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silverbullet

I am currently playing the FM Mgr. Gold Demo.
It is very good in managing a team, but not having any idea about the sport of soccer I haven't a clue what is going on.
Loaning out players??
Players being taken from your team to play for "their countries"?
Possible "bug" of injuies up the gazoo?
It is my opinion if you understand the sport of soccer, as well as many Americans understand Baseball and American Football this is probably a very good sport sim.
But as I have already stated I am clueless and cannot enjoy it.

I've been interested in FM for a while even though you couldn't drag me to a live soccer match. I just had to see the world's best sim. I finally got around to buying Worldwide Soccer Manager 2006. I've had it for two days now, I still am not a soccer fan, but all I can say about it is WOW.

I've played it for three years. I always buy the English version. It is a great and fabulous sim. In fact, I spend about 60% of my sim time with it, 30% with PureSim and 10% with OOTP.

I'm actually trying to wean myself from FM2006 and go strickly PureSim for two strange reasons:

1) Football Manager 2006 is so complex that I often feel like I'm working another job (as a real soccer manager). Makes it hard to sleep.
2) I watch tons of EPL soccer games on the Fox Soccer Channel. I never watch MLB anymore on TV, although I do attend three or four Astro games a year. Therefore, I actually like to watch soccer and play PureSim for an escape -- but FM2006 is just so good! (BTW, the EPL is tons better than the NFL! Takes about 5 games of watching the EPL to realize why NFL Europe will never make it. The NFL is 33% commericals, 33% huddling and 33% action. The EPL is 95% no-stop action and 5% commericals with, of course, no huddling!)

It is like being a drunk. I stay away from FM2006 for a week or so, but as soon as I boot again it up again I'm drunk for a month.

I still prefer PureSim over OOTP. And even though OOTP is now gravitating itself toward FM2006, I'm not convinced that the FM format is really all that adaptable to OOTP. I've thought that the screens released so far were sometimes difficult to read and that lack of a 2D play by play representation is going to be a real loss.

I just think PureSim is more fun. It grows on you, where as I enjoy (and still do enjoy) OOTP quite a bit, but it doesn't grow on me. IOW, I could forget OOTP -- but I can't forget FM2006 and PureSim!

(in reply to DandricSturm)

Post #: 33

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/16/2006 11:25:07 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
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quote:

In fact, I spend about 60% of my sim time with it, 30% with PureSim and 10% with OOTP.

That's funny - that's about my breakdown as well - I'd say '10% "other"' for the third category, as the game that winds up placed there varies from year to year. At the moment the game in my third slot is EHM, but I'm really wrapped up in my FM career at the moment.

Just broke out of a 5-game skid where I couldn't score a single goal: there's nothing like getting shut out for nine straight hours of game play to convince you your job is on the line!

(in reply to Beach23BoyP)

Post #: 34

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/17/2006 7:51:00 AM

DandricSturm

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
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quote:

I always buy the English version.

I have to ask, what is the difference between Worldwide Soccer Manager and Football Manager? Is there any but the name? The only thing I see Americanized is the title of the game. All finances are in Euros. Heights and weights are metric. Just wondering. The main reason I bought this version is it was the only one I found downloadable.

Since my father was born in Slovakia, I've been playing Slovak teams. First I picked a first division team but there was too much amazement being expressed about me being hired to coach with so little experience. I started over and now I'm managing Tatran Presov in the Slovak second division. We're in third place and have won our first two rounds of the Slovak Cup.

What fun it is when your best player gets called up for a national match and comes back with food poisoning.

_____________________________

"The Guns, Thank God, The Guns..." - Rudyard Kipling
http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/

(in reply to Beach23BoyP)

Post #: 35

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/17/2006 8:27:55 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

quote:

I have to ask, what is the difference between Worldwide Soccer Manager and Football Manager? Is there any but the name? The only thing I see Americanized is the title of the game. All finances are in Euros. Heights and weights are metric. Just wondering. The main reason I bought this version is it was the only one I found downloadable.

Not very much. The underlying code should be the same, and you can play the English-U.S. or English-U.K. with either CD version. (WSM does not include English-U.K. in the download version.) You should be able to set finances to Euros, pounds, dollars, or whatever your preference is. Likewise, you should be able to set heights and weights to metric or english.

The English-U.S. translation Americanizes a number of things, primarily little word differences: 'coach' instead of 'manager', 'trainer' instead of 'physio', 'color' instead of 'colour', 'truck' instead of 'lorry', that sort of thing. There are also colloquial phrases that get adjusted.

(in reply to DandricSturm)

Post #: 36

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/17/2006 8:29:36 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

quote:

too much amazement being expressed about me being hired to coach with so little experience.

One of the nice details about the game: if you, a total unknown, take over, say, Manchester United to start the game, your players are very unsure of you, and you have to win their trust before they'll really give their best effort. Likewise, until you've proven yourself a bit, the board of directors are more likely to sack you! Er.. 'fire you', in the English-US parlance.

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 37

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/18/2006 1:15:37 AM

Beach23BoyP

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Joined: 8/20/2005
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I'm the gaffer for Havant and Waterlooville -- Conference South. Love those lower leagues!

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 38

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/18/2006 6:56:39 AM

DandricSturm

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

Not very much. The underlying code should be the same, and you can play the English-U.S. or English-U.K. with either CD version. (WSM does not include English-U.K. in the download version.) You should be able to set finances to Euros, pounds, dollars, or whatever your preference is. Likewise, you should be able to set heights and weights to metric or english.

The English-U.S. translation Americanizes a number of things, primarily little word differences: 'coach' instead of 'manager', 'trainer' instead of 'physio', 'color' instead of 'colour', 'truck' instead of 'lorry', that sort of thing. There are also colloquial phrases that get adjusted.

I haven't looked at the preferences to see about those things, I'll probably leave it like it is anyway. As far as the words, I have physios, I'm a manager, etc. I don't see any of those words Americanized in my version.

The only thing that bothers me a little is the dates. 12.9?

_____________________________

"The Guns, Thank God, The Guns..." - Rudyard Kipling
http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 39

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/18/2006 8:02:57 PM

Beach23BoyP

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My Football Manager experiences:

1) I always pre-order from Gameplay UK. I ususally get it within 10 days of release. I, of course, play the Demo Gold while waiting. I don't want "any Americanization" of the game at all. It is -- League Table, not League Standings!
2) I try to keep things "simple" -- I think you can make things too complex. With regard to "tactics" I stick mostly to "team instructions".
3) I've been the manager for Havant & W (Conference South) for almost six seasons total. I prefer to "play-out" (if time permits) all my matches including friendlies and even reserve friendlies.
4) I've lead Havant to the Conference South Playoffs every year and I even got them promoted to the Conference National when playing last year with FM2005.
5) I play a 4-4-2 Diamond. In front of my supporters I "counter-attack" and play a somewhat quick tempo. On the road I slow things down a bit and never take too many chances. I'm happy with draws on the road.
6) If ahead in the last 10 miniutes I really go into a defensive mode -- pass long, play wide, time waste and slow it down. If losing I'll still pass long, but I uptick the the tempo quite a bit and bring on a fresh striker or an offensive mid. But I still try to keep it simple.
7) However, I do instruct my "centerbacks" to always "tightly man mark" at all times. Plus, I always make sure my centerbacks are fairly tall players (6.2 +) who have good heading skills.
8 ) I mostly tell my wingers to "cross deep and often" to my target man. Few strikers in the lower leagues have all that good of dribbling skills or even enough pace. That's why I prefer long passes into the box. But -- I still (try to) keep it simple!
9) I try to only play players who have at least OK morale and are match fit (93% or higher). I try NEVER to play a guy out of position.
10) I have had some success signing a few of my "grey-players". My backup keeper is a grey player and I've got an almost decent striker who was a grey.
11) Big problem with the new patch is keeping everyone happy. I have a big squad (still under wage bill) for a Conference South team and now I've got 3 or 4 unhappy players. They don't like to "rotate"!
12) I rarely post at SI games website.

Finally, as you can tell I'm hopelessly addicted to FM2006. I enjoy the challenge of the lower leagues and because I really don't know any of them from TV -- they all seem like fantasy players.

If Shaun delivers on his almanac and three levels of minors -- then PS2006 may get my attention from FM2006. I "do enjoy" playing PS quite a bit, I enjoy skinning it, I think I'd enjoy making an "add-in" or two, and I know I would really enjoy creating a complete BB "fantasy universe" with unknown players and a feature rich player tracking "reference almanac"!

But -- it will still be a tough decision. I've only got so much free time!

< Message edited by Beach23BoyP -- 2/18/2006 8:03:46 PM >

(in reply to DandricSturm)

Post #: 40

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/19/2006 3:57:51 PM

DandricSturm

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beach23BoyP
I don't want "any Americanization" of the game at all. It is -- League Table, not League Standings!

I guess I'm still not seeing what the difference between WSM and FM is then, since in my game it always says League Table and I've not seen the word "Standings."

I'm playing a second season now after getting promoted and I've been getting pounded in the first three matches.

_____________________________

"The Guns, Thank God, The Guns..." - Rudyard Kipling
http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/

(in reply to Beach23BoyP)

Post #: 41

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/19/2006 8:08:00 PM

Beach23BoyP

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

I wouldn't know. I just couldn't wait, nor could I take the chance that the Americanized version would be different. I just always order from Gameplay UK.

Again, I just need to break my addiction from FM -- so I can fully enjoy PS again! Shaun's almanac and three-levels or minors is right up my alley!

(in reply to DandricSturm)

Post #: 42

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/20/2006 9:21:09 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

quote:

2) I try to keep things "simple" -- I think you can make things too complex. With regard to "tactics" I stick mostly to "team instructions".

I give specific instructions to specific roles on the team; I think by your standards my instructions would be too complex!

quote:

3) I've been the manager for Havant & W (Conference South) for almost six seasons total. I prefer to "play-out" (if time permits) all my matches including friendlies and even reserve friendlies.

Yay LLM! I always start in the Conference or Conf N/S, too. My senior matches I play at "Extended Highlights", Reserve and U-18 matches I play at "Commentary only".

quote:

5) I play a 4-4-2 Diamond. In front of my supporters I "counter-attack" and play a somewhat quick tempo. On the road I slow things down a bit and never take too many chances. I'm happy with draws on the road.

Very different! I play a 4-5-1, with a DMC, two wingers, and two AMC's with backwards arrows to MC, so its actually fairly close to your formation - a little less up top, a little more help on defense.

But, I play 'counter attacking' on the road, which works very well: the opposition, at home, try to attack more, and I'm more likely to hit them on the break. At home, I'm likely to slow things down a bit, though I am pushing more players forward into the attack . I found I really struggled with counter-attacking at home.

quote:

7) However, I do instruct my "centerbacks" to always "tightly man mark" at all times. Plus, I always make sure my centerbacks are fairly tall players (6.2 +) who have good heading skills.

That can work very well if your DC's have the pace and acceleration to keep up with the opposition strikers, but if you run across a real speedy striker, I had real problems with it. I have them 'man mark', but not tightly; definitely agree with the tall players advice: they have to be good at jumping and heading, or we just get creamed in the air.

quote:

8 ) I mostly tell my wingers to "cross deep and often" to my target man. Few strikers in the lower leagues have all that good of dribbling skills or even enough pace. That's why I prefer long passes into the box. But -- I still (try to) keep it simple!

I only just learned that recently: I'd had my wingers crossing from 'byline', and got a nice boost to my offense when I pulled back to from 'mixed' or 'deep'.

quote:

11) Big problem with the new patch is keeping everyone happy. I have a big squad (still under wage bill) for a Conference South team and now I've got 3 or 4 unhappy players. They don't like to "rotate"!

No, they don't! But SI have announced a 6.0.3 patch which includes a fix for this, as well as data updates from the January transfer window. Should be out soon.

quote:

12) I rarely post at SI games website.

You can find me as 'Amaroq' there as well.

...

quote:

I guess I'm still not seeing what the difference between WSM and FM is then, since in my game it always says League Table and I've not seen the word "Standings."

It sounds like you're playing with the English-UK language installed, then.

quote:

I'm playing a second season now after getting promoted and I've been getting pounded in the first three matches.

That can be tough, especially as poor Morale tends to breed poor results, etc.

My advice is - defend, defend, defend. A couple 0-0 results will help things, and if you can nick a 1-0 win, you can really start to turn around the Morale side of things.

Also, be pretty even-handed in your team talks; what works for a team on high Morale doesn't really for a team mired in a losing streak, and if you rage at them for their performances, they'll stop trying altogether.

Also, the attributes 'determination' and sheer experience can be important: Determination seems to govern how hard-working a player is while trailing; also, players with lots of experience (30+, 200+ league games) tend to be more resilient to Morale effects, while younger players can get really hammered with poor Morale. Choice of Captain can be important, too - Influence isn't everything; you want to look at what attributes he has to influence people towards. E.g., if you have an influential player with 1 work rate, and 1 determination, he's going to influence the other players to be lazy like he is.

(in reply to Beach23BoyP)

Post #: 43

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/20/2006 10:10:59 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

In fact, my post was just incorrect, FM 2006 patch 6.0.3 has been released - see (link:)6.0.3 out now on the SI forum for more information.

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 44

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/20/2006 11:13:32 PM

jono

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/10/2005
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What does the discussion of football sims and strategies have to do with the forum topic Puresim versus OOTP?

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 45

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/21/2006 1:12:09 AM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

lol - I'd been thinking this needed its own thread, honestly. But the PS vs OOTP thread had come to a complete halt back in October, and got re-upped with the second post of Page 2 in mid-February with comparison to FM.

The tie-in is that the developers of FM have acquired OOTP, and they have very ambitious plans for OOTP over the next three or four releases.

(in reply to jono)

Post #: 46

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/21/2006 1:36:34 AM

DandricSturm

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

quote:

I guess I'm still not seeing what the difference between WSM and FM is then, since in my game it always says League Table and I've not seen the word "Standings."

It sounds like you're playing with the English-UK language installed, then.

quote:

I'm playing a second season now after getting promoted and I've been getting pounded in the first three matches.

That can be tough, especially as poor Morale tends to breed poor results, etc.

My advice is - defend, defend, defend. A couple 0-0 results will help things, and if you can nick a 1-0 win, you can really start to turn around the Morale side of things.

Also, be pretty even-handed in your team talks; what works for a team on high Morale doesn't really for a team mired in a losing streak, and if you rage at them for their performances, they'll stop trying altogether.

Also, the attributes 'determination' and sheer experience can be important: Determination seems to govern how hard-working a player is while trailing; also, players with lots of experience (30+, 200+ league games) tend to be more resilient to Morale effects, while younger players can get really hammered with poor Morale. Choice of Captain can be important, too - Influence isn't everything; you want to look at what attributes he has to influence people towards. E.g., if you have an influential player with 1 work rate, and 1 determination, he's going to influence the other players to be lazy like he is.

Yeah, morale has been a problem. I rarely use the ANGER team talk. Mostly I encourage with praise for individual performance. One thing that seemed to help morale was playing a friendly match vs. my U19 team. A lopsided result seemed to make most of my players happy and we drew a couple of matches and even won one after that.

There is a LOT I have to learn yet.

_____________________________

"The Guns, Thank God, The Guns..." - Rudyard Kipling
http://www.bluemax-ara-assoc.com/

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 47

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/21/2006 2:38:55 AM

Beach23BoyP

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

One thing that seemed to help morale was playing a friendly match vs. my U19 team. A lopsided result seemed to make most of my players happy

I never thought of that. Thanks!

(in reply to DandricSturm)

Post #: 48

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/21/2006 2:39:40 AM

Beach23BoyP

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jono

What does the discussion of football sims and strategies have to do with the forum topic Puresim versus OOTP?

We like getting off topic now and then.

(in reply to jono)

Post #: 49

RE: Puresim versus OOTP - 2/21/2006 2:47:58 AM

Beach23BoyP

Posts: 288
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

You can find me as 'Amaroq' there as well.

I see you there all the time. Thanks for all the great advice. I gotta get away from FM2006 and spend most of my time with PS. FM is just too exhausting!

I really prefer to watch soccer -- again nothing like the EPL. And I just need to stick with PS. One thing I like about BB text sims is following the year to year stats. However, the FM 2D games are a riot!

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 50