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Troop ratings for Spotting.

 
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Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/16/2005 1:04:38 AM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		Do the rates that troops use for Spotting rely on their Experience or their Base Leader Ratings?

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Post #: 1
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/16/2005 9:49:45 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		That's the one I'd like to know too.

I have used to bombard the hex from where I was fired upon. Spotting has usually occurred only after I have silenced the enemy, that means - too late.

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Post #: 2
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/17/2005 2:29:26 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		In 8.4 the spotting was change so its nearly impossible to sneak up on something with infantry the spotting was change in the Mech.exe.

To answer the question experience does play into spotting, as well as the supression of the unit trying to spot.

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Post #: 3
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/17/2005 2:53:47 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		Bring sneaking back!

I have my Molotov cocktails ready.

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Post #: 4
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/17/2005 4:21:44 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		To sneak up on Vehicles that is.

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Post #: 5
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/17/2005 11:38:43 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		It is back in the latest mech which has not been released yet...
back to good old tank assualting..

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Post #: 6
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/18/2005 11:20:33 AM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		Me thanks thee!

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Post #: 7
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/20/2005 1:36:15 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

Do the rates that troops use for Spotting rely on their Experience or their Base Leader Ratings?


Not quite sure either, but I would say both (leader roll influences almost everything as does experience).

From game manual:

"The chances of spotting, and of spotted units
disappearing, depend on the relative experience levels of the units involved, their skill of
their leaders, the weather, the visibility and the terrain."

"The Skill ratings for armor, infantry and artillery are used when the leader checks to see how
successful the unit is at a variety of tasks like spotting for artillery, assaulting tanks, using antitank
weapons, hitting targets and avoiding being spotted."

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Post #: 8
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/20/2005 8:05:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

To sneak up on Vehicles that is.

Oh just MG the tanks until they button up and sneak up on them with something small with an AT capacity. German 4 man recon's are great.

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Post #: 9
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/20/2005 10:25:35 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		That will not work in 8.4 you have to get them in retreat mode or as soon as you get within it will fire on you

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Post #: 10
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/21/2005 12:55:24 AM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline
quote:

"The chances of spotting, and of spotted units
disappearing, depend on the relative experience levels of the units involved, their skill of
their leaders, the weather, the visibility and the terrain."

"The Skill ratings for armor, infantry and artillery are used when the leader checks to see how
successful the unit is at a variety of tasks like spotting for artillery, assaulting tanks, using antitank
weapons, hitting targets and avoiding being spotted."




That would imply that it's leader ratings, either in armour, arty or infantry that predominate, since a unit's experience usually dictate the leader ratings.

It's interesting because there are some nations that have a large disparity between experience and leader ratings. In later years, for example, when Russians have same experience levels as Germans, the Russian leader ratings are lower than their XP while Germans a little higher than XP. So I was curious to know if, when historic ratings are on, and when two nations have similar Xp's but different leader ratings, which one gets used for spotting?
I used to judge the competence of troops according to their XP, but I'm starting to wonder whether I've been looking at the wrong figure, and whether the leader ratings have more effect on combat effectiveness than XP when it comes to spotting and hitting.

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Post #: 11
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/21/2005 7:49:11 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

That will not work in 8.4 you have to get them in retreat mode or as soon as you get within it will fire on you


Hummm my SPWaW says it's 8.4 and I don't seem to have much trouble with this, of course I usually include a few ATR's to 'encourage' the tanks to not look closely at anything.

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Post #: 12
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/21/2005 9:36:29 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Try this put a tank in the woods, even if its already buttoned it will fire on you everytime you get within one hex

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Post #: 13
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/21/2005 9:43:27 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

Try this put a tank in the woods, even if its already buttoned it will fire on you everytime you get within one hex


This is why I greated my 'Tank Busters at Summa' scenario.

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Post #: 14
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/26/2005 4:32:46 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

quote:

"The chances of spotting, and of spotted units
disappearing, depend on the relative experience levels of the units involved, their skill of
their leaders, the weather, the visibility and the terrain."

"The Skill ratings for armor, infantry and artillery are used when the leader checks to see how
successful the unit is at a variety of tasks like spotting for artillery, assaulting tanks, using antitank
weapons, hitting targets and avoiding being spotted."




That would imply that it's leader ratings, either in armour, arty or infantry that predominate, since a unit's experience usually dictate the leader ratings.

It's interesting because there are some nations that have a large disparity between experience and leader ratings. In later years, for example, when Russians have same experience levels as Germans, the Russian leader ratings are lower than their XP while Germans a little higher than XP. So I was curious to know if, when historic ratings are on, and when two nations have similar Xp's but different leader ratings, which one gets used for spotting?
I used to judge the competence of troops according to their XP, but I'm starting to wonder whether I've been looking at the wrong figure, and whether the leader ratings have more effect on combat effectiveness than XP when it comes to spotting and hitting.


I think only Mike Wood or Tom Proudfoot could tell you for sure since these is the only guys who have access to the source code. What is left to ourselves is pure statistical testing. Make a test scen, test both, low expereince troops with good leaders and vice versa, see who fares better with regard to spotting ect. and let us know the results!


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Post #: 15
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/27/2005 12:02:15 AM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		Well, I did do some testing, and it seems I was wrong. High XP with low Leader ratings spot very well. Low XP with high Leader ratings don't spot much at all.
The reality may be a little more complex, but I think I can confidently say now that XP ratings contribute the most to a unit's spotting ability.

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Post #: 16
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/27/2005 1:49:30 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		Good to hear that you actually tested it. The result indeed reflects reality: the twit who thinks he leads the platoon hardly helps in spotting either.

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Post #: 17
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/28/2005 3:10:47 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Swamprat

Well, I did do some testing, and it seems I was wrong. High XP with low Leader ratings spot very well. Low XP with high Leader ratings don't spot much at all.
The reality may be a little more complex, but I think I can confidently say now that XP ratings contribute the most to a unit's spotting ability.


I think it´s due to the many eyes that usually see more. That´s just as it appears to be in the game. Normally it would only be one (or the squad leader) who does the battlefield observing. Usuaylly he´s the one who has the binocs as well. In this regard the handling of spotting is not modelled to realistically in SPWAW.

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Post #: 18
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/28/2005 5:40:43 PM   
Swamprat


Posts: 129
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Shrewsbury UK
Status: offline 		I think you misunderstand what I mean by Leader ratings, (or maybe I've said it wrong). The leader ratings are the ratings for Rally, Infantry, Armoured and Artillery, usually listed on the right hand side of a unit's profile.

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Post #: 19
RE: Troop ratings for Spotting. - 10/29/2005 12:52:56 PM   
serg3d

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 8/23/2003
Status: offline 		Not to my expirience. I'm playng WWII campain as Russians. In the woods Finns successfully sneaked on my tanks and assualted them.

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Post #: 20
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