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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Victory in Burma

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RE: Victory in Burma - 6/15/2007 4:39:25 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/27/44

OK another interesting turn lots happening..I deleted all the boring stuff

Part 1 I raided Bankok but there was NO CAP

A massive army is cutting off the army advancing into Malaya I need to capture Bandou or I could be in trouble

US 6th Army at VP has two Corps under command - 4th Corps will revert to 14th Army Command when Slim enters the battle
Ind 4th Corps is driving South spearheaded by a LOT or armour
USA 14th Corps is going to try and hold the route south open and avoid getting cut off from the north and secure VP
1st Amphib Corps is at Malacca/Bankha and is fighting for its life with Jap Panzers the good news is that no supply is going north to the front because of allies holding a blocking position at Malacca

Ind 14th Army is currently loading up at Madras it will consist of 5 Division plus armour in 2 Corps its target is Alor Star landing behind the Japanese defending Songkia and securing a forward port for the allies

At Mandalay Indian 15th Corps, Burma Corps and 3rd Corps under 12th Army are trying to breakthrough but Mandalay has served its purpose keeping the bulk of the Japanese Army out of the fight I would just feel better if I could secure a breakthrough

I may withdraw 1 Corps back to India ready to deploy into Malaya.

Day Air attack on Bangkok , at 29,40

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 7
Thunderbolt II x 6
Liberator VI x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 65

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 3 destroyed
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed
Ki-57-II Topsy: 8 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 4 destroyed
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed
J2M Jack: 2 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 3 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
L2D2 Tabby: 3 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 3 destroyed
Ki-46-II Dinah: 1 destroyed
B5N Kate: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator VI: 2 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 11 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
361 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

Airbase hits 15
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 57

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 22,51

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 10
SB2C Helldiver x 9
Barracuda x 16
Avenger II x 2
Spitfire VIII x 4
Vengeance I x 5
P-38J Lightning x 5
P-47D Thunderbolt x 16

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged
Barracuda: 6 damaged
Avenger II: 1 damaged
Vengeance I: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

CA Mikuma
DD Kamo

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 48
J2M Jack x 30
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 6
Barracuda x 2
Spitfire VIII x 4
P-38J Lightning x 5
P-47D Thunderbolt x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 14 destroyed
J2M Jack: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 3 destroyed
Barracuda: 1 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 4 destroyed
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-47D Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Malacca at 22,47

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Samokla

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 22,42

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Admiral Wiley, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Wake Island at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DE Brackett, Bomb hits 1, on fire
TK Empire Granite, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 6000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 28,39

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 59632 troops, 668 guns, 144 vehicles, Assault Value =
1777

Defending force 6210 troops, 11 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 71

Japanese max assault: 2722 - adjusted assault: 2319

Allied max defense: 56 - adjusted defense: 13

Japanese assault odds: 178 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
358 casualties reported
Guns lost 12

Allied ground losses:
627 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tavoy - THIS IS CRAP NOT FAIR ON PAUK BUT NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 60252 troops, 554 guns, 138 vehicles, Assault Value =
1089

Defending force 5685 troops, 4 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 53

Japanese max assault: 1063 - adjusted assault: 1124

Allied max defense: 35 - adjusted defense: 73

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
161 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Allied ground losses:
290 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 30,32

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4514 troops, 0 guns, 288 vehicles, Assault Value = 162

Defending force 2029 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 62

Japanese max assault: 330 - adjusted assault: 136

Allied max defense: 54 - adjusted defense: 31

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 6

Allied ground losses:
335 casualties reported
Guns lost 9

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bankha

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7637 troops, 98 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 187

Defending force 18607 troops, 156 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value =
186

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 26,39

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4194 troops, 35 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 103

Defending force 2393 troops, 6 guns, 149 vehicles, Assault Value = 81

Allied max assault: 184 - adjusted assault: 116

Japanese max defense: 78 - adjusted defense: 81

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
115 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Mandalay

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4121 troops, 157 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3612

Defending force 85397 troops, 845 guns, 13 vehicles, Assault Value =
1798

Japanese ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Malacca

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 24925 troops, 225 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 713

Defending force 36916 troops, 278 guns, 769 vehicles, Assault Value =
795

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Mili

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 39283 troops, 148 guns, 115 vehicles, Assault Value =
941

Defending force 6185 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Allied max assault: 1678 - adjusted assault: 492

Japanese max defense: 6 - adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 98 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
554 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
212 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Malacca

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 19518 troops, 206 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 795

Defending force 25477 troops, 225 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 713

Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

65th Naval Guard Unit Wiped Out at Mili by attrition!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sasebo 6th SNLF Wiped Out at Mili by attrition!!!

Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer ]

SIG INT REPORT FOR 01/27/44

15th AA Regiment is located at Nagoya.
25th AA Regiment is located at Nagato.
62nd Construction Battalion is located at Truk.
Radio transmissions detected at Balikpapan.
103rd IJA Base Force is located at Hengchow.
2nd/A Division is located at 23,48.
12427 men are based at Songkhia. -

- SO NOT THAT MANY
3357 men are based at Etorofo Jima.
6th Reserve Tank Regiment is located at Bonin.
22nd AA Regiment is located at Kitakyushu.
6th Division is located at 42,30.
2nd Mountain Gun Regiment is located at Hong Kong.
Burma Area Army is located at Rahaeng.
5102 men are based at Nagoya.
5833 men are based at Sakashima.
6th Reserve Tank Regiment is located at Bonin.
22nd AA Regiment is located at Kitakyushu.
40th Division is located at 42,31.
18th Army is located at Ponape.
40th Division is located at 42,31.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 691

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/15/2007 4:46:32 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.s. one of the most understated advantages the allies get in a PDU game and its not the obvious one....

TRANSPORT PLANES

All Sqns end up with C46 Commandoes 50% extra capacity and a lot longer range...
Large numbers of PBY Sqns end up with Coronados

Also nice

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 692

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/15/2007 6:38:23 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

I am pretty happy now thats

Hiei, Yamato, Nagato, Musachi, Hygai all damaged not bad !!!

Not great that I lost Indiana but SODAK is back in ops and Iowa/Missouri jus arrived int he East and QE/Renown in the West.

I have the ships its time to use them to ATTACK !!!

I do need to think about my next move in the east...

Wake will play host to 4 or 5 B29 Groups attacking the HI forcing Pauk to redeploy some fighter assets soon.

I also need to think about whether to continue with the Marshalls or go all out for the Marianas I only have the ground troops to do one or the other.

I am actually pulling a few more Divs from Aus/NG/NZ and starting to move them east I want to have a strike force of 10 - 12 Divs I will then decide if its the Marshalls or the Marianas next...

My losses in the West Have been painfull will list em out in a turn soon essex, Wasp, Illustrious, 4 CVE's, 1 CVL, 2 BB's and god only knows how many other ships....

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 6/15/2007 6:53:41 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 693

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/15/2007 9:37:44 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

I think Pauk has made a MASSIVE mistake take a look

I had Sig int that Kuantan had 1 man a few weeks ago but I ignored it as false.....

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 694

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/15/2007 9:39:04 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

This is the last of my paratroopers so I need to be carefull.

1 Bn is committed at Malacca a second at Bankha this is the third and last....

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 695

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/18/2007 5:53:43 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK a few turns have passed Independence has sank and Enterprise is in real trouble.

I tried another shock attack at Mandalay and lost heavily I am really getting pissed off with dividing big land units to stop them getting disrupted by air.

By dividing them I cannot because of the Air to Mud routine target enough units to make a difference.

I am pulling 1 Corps back and will airplift it back to India for R&R - I am NOT happy about how this has gone down after 6 months batle with total air superioirty and a far higher base AV and all 5 independent allied combat engineer regts and I have not knocked off a single fort level.

Anyway what else is happening I took Kuantan but PZB has responded and is shipping in massive numbers of reinforcements to take the base.

Both of my Inf Corps are driving south and I have taken Bandou I now need to Songkia.

14th Army with 100,000 fresh troops is heading for somewhere on the Alor Star/Kuala Lumper line. I will land them at the most inconvenient place for Pauk.

What else well my preparation for an attack in the East continues apace I am aiming for 10 Divisions in one force landing on to either the Marianas/Marcus or Iwo.

If I have Superforts on Wake then I expect to make it hard for Pauk to respond.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 696

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 3:50:08 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK Guys I have made a huge mistake and paid a terrible price for a strategy that just will not work so I am open to ideas.

The situation

VP Secure but defensive I have enough troops and aircraft and supplies to hold it but not to clear the rear of 6th US Army

6th US Army has secured bandou and is attacking Songkia but the rail line to its rear is cut and a substantial amount of strenght is required to guard Bandou.

1st Amphib Corps is ashore at Malacca and has bankha secure but is not able to take the AF or secure the base.

12th Army has 2 Corps at Mandalay and is continuing to attack in vain

Indian 3rd Corps has pulled back to Myktina where it will be airlifted to India minus 18th UK Div which will be airlifted to Victoria Point.

14th Army is at sea with c 1,500 AV in 2 Corps and is heading SE towards Malaya eta 5 or 6 days

I am stopped at Mandalay, I am stopped at Malacca

I have one card left to play so it has to be a good one I am open to ideas.....

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 697

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 4:04:48 PM

aztez

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline

I always said that this operation was somewhat odd in an sense that you went too deep before you had Mandalay secured. Instead you should have turn this pinzer towards Mandalay and thus you would have relieved those troops.

Again this is quite late date already so landings at Iwo area or Northern Japan would be my choices if you can muster the assault power. You need to start causing Pauk huge worries and those areas certainly do that.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 698

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 6:44:04 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

:) ah well I went for it and have not succeeded.

Options

A Land 1 Div at Georgetown, 3 Divs at Alor Star cutting off forces at Songkia and only allowing reinforcements for Alor to arrive by air or from Taiping.

B Land 4 Divs at Alor Star cutting off forces at Songkia and only allowing reinforcements for Alor to arrive by air or from Taiping/Georgetown.

C Land 4 Divs at Kuala Lumper possibly 3 with 1 Div at Alor Star

D Land 4 Divs at Malacca

E Land 4 Divs at Bankha and wait for an opportunity

F Land 4 Divs at VP and use them to try and clear 6th Armies LOC

G Land 1 Div at Alor, 1 Div at Georgetown, 1 Div at Kuala and 1 Div at the hex between Kuala Lumper and Malacca and hope to find a weakspot.....

E and F are low risk G is probably to extreme....

A B or C are all viable

D looks like a waste of resources althoug I Amphib Corps is at least stopping supplies moveing forward and will be difficult to shift

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 699

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 6:44:51 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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I suppose there is always G land the full 4 Divs at Johore......but that is definitly a step to far in my book

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 700

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 6:55:19 PM

veji1

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
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Why don't you secure Sabang and the bases of northern Sumatra to give you more room for use of your LBA and build up of your forces ?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 701

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 7:29:41 PM

Kereguelen

Posts: 1829
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

:) ah well I went for it and have not succeeded.

Options

A Land 1 Div at Georgetown, 3 Divs at Alor Star cutting off forces at Songkia and only allowing reinforcements for Alor to arrive by air or from Taiping.

B Land 4 Divs at Alor Star cutting off forces at Songkia and only allowing reinforcements for Alor to arrive by air or from Taiping/Georgetown.

C Land 4 Divs at Kuala Lumper possibly 3 with 1 Div at Alor Star

D Land 4 Divs at Malacca

E Land 4 Divs at Bankha and wait for an opportunity

F Land 4 Divs at VP and use them to try and clear 6th Armies LOC

G Land 1 Div at Alor, 1 Div at Georgetown, 1 Div at Kuala and 1 Div at the hex between Kuala Lumper and Malacca and hope to find a weakspot.....

E and F are low risk G is probably to extreme....

A B or C are all viable

D looks like a waste of resources althoug I Amphib Corps is at least stopping supplies moveing forward and will be difficult to shift

IMHO you have to take Kuala Lumpur asap or the whole operation will end as a complete desaster. If you can afford to land a blocking force in the base north of it, do it. But the most important thing will be to take Kuala Lumpur within two days after landing there. Four divisions should be enough to do the job in time (that is, before Pauk can reinforce the place). But because you ostensibly don't know the disposition of the Japanese forces, it is still a risk. Thus you should fly some ground-attacks against all Japanese bases in Malaya to find out which forces are present where in the turn before you land your invasion force. How many days before you can land with your four-division-force?

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 702

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 7:35:47 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

5 or 6 days they are near andaman islands now...

I will take Veiji's advice though as well Medan looks to be unguarded with hindsight I should have went there rather than Kuantan.

If I have Medan and Kuantan and some of the seabees accompanying 14th Army are diverted to these bases and bankha to aid the build up.

(All please dont forget I am prepping for the Marianas and/or Bonins at present with 10 Divs in the East and will able to divert c 5 more Aussie/US Divs from SWPAC to support it I am just awaiting more carriers I will have c 20 CVE's 3 CV's and a couple of CVL's in that attack this is NOT my only attack !!!!.)

Andy

(in reply to Kereguelen)

Post #: 703

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/21/2007 7:39:39 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.s. I accept I got a tad over ambitious but the stalemate at Mandalay pissed me off so a rush of blood to the head has cost me a lot ofgood ships but thats ok I get more...

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 704

RE: Victory in Burma - 6/25/2007 1:57:22 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Pauk has beaten me again 14th Army landed at VP last night and in conjunction with a 6th US Army offensive will clear the rail line I am abandoning the attack on Malaya until my lines are clear

In the East I have decided enough is enough I have been playing Pauks game attacking with complicated plans to try and draw him out of position but no more all that I have achieved is to screw myself and cost a lot of ships to go down.

My next attack will go in on the assumption that the whole jap Navy is waiting for me and that I weill have the ability to CRUSH it enough of this faffing about.

Forces are reconcentrating at Pearl no more messing !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 705

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/2/2007 1:18:45 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK its been a busy few days so my AAAR has been a little lacking.

I am extremely pissed off at ground combat.

Malacca no progress despite air superiority supplies and an AV and numerical superiority - forts are to strong.

Songhkia - same story I have 3: 1 AV superiortiy but cannot knock a single fort down.

Bandou will probably be lost in my rear and there is nothing I can do about it as my troops at Songhkia cannot get out to relieve. Last tuen Pauk driopped forts to lvl 3 and I expect a shock attack tomorrow

VP again total air and ground superiority but cannot make progress.

Mandalay - dont make me laugh.

Basically Burma malaya is a total clusterfuck.

I got frustrated and tried to break the Mandalay deadlock with a high risk move and then compounded it by doubling my risk going all out for a Malayan port. It hasnt come of and is going to cost me a huge amount of troops.

Some if not most is my own fault but the fact that the allies cannot seem to knock down a sinlge fort level in this game is very annoying.

(Against PZB its went the other way at Bangkok every attack knocked a fortlevel off so I guess what goes around comes around)

I have allowed myself to be split and defeated in detail so its bad tactics on my part and I dont know what to do about it.

If only somewhere a single fort level would drop just once to boost my morale.

I have 3 Divs at Malacca, 10 Divs at Songkia, about 1 at Bandou and 5 at VP plus another 8 at Mandalay

I am pulling the 3 Divs out of Malacca because they are never going to suceed there.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 706

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/4/2007 3:08:06 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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OK things are moving on forts at Bandou are falling supply is ok but I am pulling everything I can into the base to try and extend the life.

I NEED to clear my lines to the rear to do that I need to hold on for another week at Bandou.

If I can I should be able to get out of the pocket.

FT's are picking men up from Songkia and pulling them back to Bandou

80 C46's are ferrying in 25th Indian Div. (I wanted to rest them more before committing but this is an emergancy)

I NEED a week

So far Pauk has had 1:1's and reinforcements are en route

4th Dutch Regt is en route on board FT's and will land in the hex below VP to try and get the Jap Armoured Regt off of LOC.

If I can get my army back to VP I will be happy Malaya/Burma is a bust. My total inability to lower forts makes a land offensive pointless.

3:1 in AV and Men fully supplied plenty of Engineers and total air superiority and not a single fort falls <mutters>.

In other news Pearl is now up to 10 Divs and climbing.

I am going to wait on a force of 6 Divs from SWPAC and 2 or 3 from the West Coast - my next landing is going to be IN FORCE and supported by B29's on AF Suppression.

PDU is about to bite back as all those allied B24's become B29's

Its a pity no sqns have P51B's as this means I wont be able to use them even under PDU I will need to wait for P51D's

This is far from over. Pauk has had the better of me so far but I an undaunted..... (although the fort/land combat thing is piising me off)

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 707

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/6/2007 10:44:52 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Pauk and I are discussing Bandou/Songkia situation and we need opinions guys see main forum

My airhead survived an attack and his reinforcemetns are slowed when 9th Aus Divs FT landed 60 miles north.

I have flown in most of 25th Indian Div and now 7th is en route I have large numbers of suplies in base but forts are all gone.

As I pointed out on main thread I would have 100,000 men and 1,500 AV there by now but for the bombardment attacks at Songkia

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 708

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 4:39:46 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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A few more turns have passed.

Pauk has me stalemated my forces are split into to many bite sized chunks and I can make no progress anywhere I just don't have the troops where is he getting all these soldiers from !!!

OK my left is bogged down it is almost time for my right to take the strain...

I have a powerfull fleet assembled at Pearl and getting stronger (3 CV's, c 24 CVE's, 10 BB's etc)

With more coming every day.

In 60 days I get Bennington and Tico and that is the designated start date.

All 5 Fleet Carriers will have 40 F6F's and 36 F4U1D's in the main sqns I am going to remove ALL bombers from the fleet carriers and give them 21 F6F's each by transferring a sqn from the escort Carriers which would otherwise carry Wildcats.

So 485 Front line fighters plus 3 of the CVE's are bigger ships able to carry Hellcats so add another 63 to the mix.

All other slots in CVE's will be held by bombers mostly TBD's with a few Helldivers and Wildcats.

This is a defensive mix of assets the carriers are there to defend the invasion fleet and provide CAS I dont have the sustained hitting power of massed fleet carriers because I do not have them !!!!

Much as I would like to go on the attack I don't have the birdfarms (yet....) my losses have been to heavy and Eastern Fleet is wrecked (Of three remaining Eastern Fleet Carriers only 1 is operational).

So this leaves my fleet as defensive.

OK but this is not all bad....

I Have 12 Divs and 10 Armoured Regts at Pearl now.

4 more Divs and 5 Armoured Regts are en route from SWPAC

3 Divs are at San Fran awaiting transport and more arrive over time.

By the time I hvae concentrated I will have a force of 20 Divs covered by a powerfull (albeit defensive) fleet.

So where do I go...

I have as I see it 4 options in terms of risk.

1. Finish off Marshalls and then Tinian
2. Marcus with 5 Divs the 15 onto Iwo
3. Tinian with 20 Divs
4. 20 onto Iwo or Bonins direct
5. Toyohara direct
6. PI Direct
7. Formosa Direct

Each of these plans is risky and is not ideal but each does have possibilities - I am opn to ideas.....

I am very tempted by 5. as it is not mountainous terrain and he would not expect it in mid 44 but 1 or 2 are probably more sensible

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 709

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 6:18:00 PM

veji1

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
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In my very humble opinion, and I know that you would have many good reasons to do it, going for Toyohara straight would be, if not a game breaker, a painful move for all of us who enjoy the game you and Pauk are having.

I would go heavily for the Marianas, Throw all you have to one base, take it, and from there finish of the other two. then from ther you could go to Iwos, Formosa or Luzon. But a very deep strike sort of "ruins" the game in the sense that it is a very brutal reversal of situation. The Japs would be throwing everything at you because they couldn't let you get Toyohara. But you would prevail, and afer a brutal month you would be sitting there, ready to invade the HI, with the japanese fleet by the bottom, with a virtual game over.

One of the nice things in your game with PZB is the fact that you progressively broke his toys in a protracted campaign... I know this game has been frustrating, but it is obvious as well that if you commit your assets to one target, it will fall. But if you strike to deep in the heart, because it is a game it is possible, but you will kill the game cold in 3-6 months, instead of letting us shameless spectators enjoy the whole rest of the war !!!

Hopes this help.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 710

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 6:48:24 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Yeah I know what you are saying Veiji but I am am really on the ropes with Pauks play so far and my total inability in this game to lower forts (as opposed to v PZB where every attack I seem to lower them - I guess the luck goes around but it has been extremely frustrating to always be on the recieving end in this game).

Toyohara would be a decisive move and I am sure that whatever it costs I could take the base and then you are correct its game over.

Formosa the same.

The issue is I dont have the toys that I possess in the PZB game. I have lost two carrier battles and I am now scared stiff of being able to take a base no matter what I throw at it - I have zero confidence in my ability to take a base if defended. (Mandalay for a year with 100% air superiority 3 x the base AV and all the allied combat engineers and not a single fort level falls....)

Iwo Jima with 500+ AV is effectively invulnerable (Mountains+lvl 9 forts = 500 AV x 9 = 4500 adjusted more if HQ's are present) That means 20 Divs is only barely enough for 1 to 1 if he only has 500 AV.....

Tinian as flat terrain is more vulnerable but the Marianas dont actually achieve much for me I have Wake and if I really want to launch unescorted daylight raids for massed interceptors to slaughter thats the place to do it.

The fact is I Just dont know what to do.

Logic says go for Iwo direct but its mountainous and will have AT LEAST 500 AV which means a campaing right on the edge of my ability to fight.

or go deeper where defences are weaker and I can secure an AF quickly.

I just don't know.....

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 711

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 7:06:18 PM

Mistmatz

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Time for an overview map I'd say. ;)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 712

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 7:36:15 PM

veji1

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I understand that the situation is very frustrating, it all depends on how you want to play it really. Do you really want to win it by the historical timeline, or do you want to win it having a feeling that you did well considering the situation and the self imposed limits you used.

You could consider going south with the east pincer : Palau --> Mindanao. That way you would sever the links between the SRA and the rest of the empire. Then there are plenty of bases to be had around for your LBA to have fun, and once you are strong enough go north..

But this would be very slow.

Even if the Marianas are of no use, oign for tinian and then mopping up the other islands gives you freedom for the next attack.

The problem with Toyohara is that it is a game killer in the sense that either you make it (90%) chances, and then it is over, or you fail and have lost extra CVs + have several divs stranded, and then it is over as well..

You might want to go north in order to make him divert his assets, but not as a decisive blow : Go for PJ so that you can harass him from there and weaken his airforce, force him to divert units to that front...

It is obviously up to you and it all depends on the balance of frustration/fun you are having in this game and want/hope to have in the next 18-20months game time still ahead of you.

If you want to go for the kill, Toyohara it is, if you want to go for a WWII victory feeling, I would got for Tinian with everything and then from there strike to somewhere between Philippines and Formosa.

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 713

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/13/2007 8:03:07 PM

Feinder

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At least in my game vs. Erstad, I've reset my mentality to -allow- for the fact that the game ends in April(?) 1946. I don't know what the current score is in your game, but consider the fact that you actually have 2 years left in the game, it's just now a little more than half over, so there's quite a bit of time and many events yet to unfold.

All you really have to do is make sure you don't LOSE (for now). It's mid-43 in game vs. Erstad. Points are 2.5:1 in his favor. He would need 4:1 in 43 (won't happen), and 3:1 in 44 (also not going to happen). So my current planning says I have 18 months (a very long time) to get the score below 2:1 for '45 (and I don't see that being a problem either). I'm thinking a 1946 mindset, and it's a lot less frustrating.

I don't know what your score is, perhaps you should worry about 1945 if can't hold 2:1. But if you're not going to get killed in 1945, permit yourself the luxury of considering that 1946 will actually be the end-game, and that it's ok to take your time.

-F-

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(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 714

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 12:07:07 AM

Naskra

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veji1 says that invading Toyohara would be a war-winning move, and he opposes it for that reason. I call such talk treason. If you wish to break the stalemate, something along the line of a Toyahara landing is indicated.

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 715

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 12:16:36 AM

veji1

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obviously if you want to win at anycost that is the move to use, yes Naskra. The point is to know if Andy wants to win at any cost, at the risk of the end game being quite frustrating and disappointing, or would rather win the war in a way that makes him feel like he won it like a WWII general would have... Don't forget that PBEM is more than a game, it is a social experience, like boardgaming, an sometimes the fun is more in playing the game the "right way" than in actually winning it at any cost.

(in reply to Naskra)

Post #: 716

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 1:18:32 AM

Andy Mac

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From: Alexandria, Scotland
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Valid reasons all round if it was 45 or KB was neutralised I would mpre strongly consider going for Toyohara it isnt and KB is not neutralised and its a step to far for realism I take insane risks but that is an insane risk to far.

So it comes down to Marianas (I cant see the point)

Iwo (risky with mountains)

or

Marcu (boring)

Choices choices

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 717

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 1:53:05 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
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p.s. this turn I have ordered the 1st attack on Palembang AF by B24's out of Medan.

A sweep and escort fighters will come from Bankha and Medan.

Lets start cutting oil reserves

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 718

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 2:07:13 AM

Naskra

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Joined: 3/12/2005
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quote:

obviously if you want to win at anycost that is the move to use, yes Naskra. The point is to know if Andy wants to win at any cost, at the risk of the end game being quite frustrating and disappointing, or would rather win the war in a way that makes him feel like he won it like a WWII general would have... Don't forget that PBEM is more than a game, it is a social experience, like boardgaming, an sometimes the fun is more in playing the game the "right way" than in actually winning it at any cost.

I have several disagreements with this, but won't hijack the AAR by expounding. IT's AndyMac's game, thread and choice of strategy.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 719

RE: Victory in Burma - 8/14/2007 3:25:03 AM

RUPD3658

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From: East Brunswick, NJ
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My opponant took Battan Island then took Formoasa. It has made things very rough for me by effectively cutting the Empire in two. I made him pay a high price to achieve this but I don't see it as gamey at all.

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