npilgaard
Posts: 175
Joined: 5/3/2006
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Old list-posts on FF:
quote:
Post:
Bryce, 68801
"3) I'm not quite sure about your final point about subsidizing the French with US/British builds. If by this you mean early war production while France is still alive, then I have no beef. If you mean Free French, then I have a very big beef.
Any FF unit you construct is infinitely more valuable than one of the same type that you field. A French Amph is worth its weight in gold. Ditto for FF Lnd4 or practically any other unit. The reason is that their quality is better (or worse), its that they are essentially ACTION UNLIMITED units.
Many CW players build a couple AMPH early on, or at least start them. In late 1940, if you start 2 more AMPH but this time they are French, well...its not as though you aren't getting what you paid for, i.e., your 3rd and 4th AMPH units. But man, these units don't take your actions...suddenly, the CW can do its naval on the first impulse, with the FF sailing on those turns the CW does a land impulse. Their ability to make your units more effective is incalculable.
I often thing the most overlooked weapons in the western arsenal are:
+ FF ATR
+ FF AMPH/TRS
Never having to fly or sail out the units for your paradrops/invaders
is just too cool for school. But it takes dedicated lending to
accomplish this."
quote:
Post:
Bryce, 68813 :
"> And as far as part 3, regarding the Free French, I also agree. I
>tend to get stuck with ****ty FF homecountries like Syria and
>Madagascar (Even Equatorial can be tricky to get BPs to) but when I
>can I like to beef up the FF.
Hmm...Syria is one of the best possible FF HC you can get, next in importance to Morocco or maybe even better. Here's why:
+ 1 Iraqi oil for free, along with Persia if not taken yet.
+ Primary supply for the Middle East
+ Easy to send BP to it from India (particularly after Barb)
+ FF army shows up in masse there on creation
+ Multiple cities.
+ The FF reinforcements show up exactly where you need them.
+ Entrance into USSR after Barb begins (troops, BP, resources, etc.)
In most cases, the Axis take out France while having concentrated on Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. Operations in the Eastern Med are possible but more risky in this time frame (only 7 CP, remember?). So chances are France fell but Syria is alive and Axis forces in the area are small (standard Libyan force).
I normally save a few BP in India for just this possibility. If I get Syria I can ship them some BP each turn. Wavell and the army are immediately positioned to fight sure, but Damascus is FAR more vital than Suez. As long as I can hold onto Syria I can and will station a large RN force there to challenge the Italian navy (how often can they seize Suez AND Gib this quickly?). I mean it, I'll fight to the death for the capital, and the buggers will be worried about supply the whole darned time.
Depending on the situtation, I will either start the FF factory immediately or get more troops/AC going. The advantage of just building FF AC alone (FTR w/ excellent range) is fabulous (RN fighting
from the 2 box with good air cover); those 2-3BP/turn will be my contribution to the Middle East, my other buids will go elsewhere. If I'm worried I can even build some forts.
My point is that a Syria defended to the death can stuff Axis plans in the Med. It can be VERY ugly, but your CW player has to have to stones to trade units for it."
quote:
Post:
Steve Fowler 67771 (quite gamey tricks - I don't really like them, but some player uses them):
"2. If possible, try to place any non-capital ship naval assests in a position where they have the highest percentage of turning FF. This will require that some units (CPs for example) move away from the French homeland two turns prior to the fall of Paris.
-- Actually, you setup Vichy during the Peace step. To save part of the naval assets, you just need to rebase them to French minors during the RTB phase. You should therefore have your non-capital at sea the last turn.
It may be a problem to reorg them if you're playing oil.
Also you change control of French hexes after determining which territory goes FF. Have some capital ships in Brest. They'll have to rebase to the nearest Vichy or FF port. If you happen to have Morrocco FF (10% chance, but who knows), these ships will rebase to Casablanca and become FF.
3. The French player should rail out or destroy any blue factories in Metropolotian France so Vichy cannot make use of them.
-- I do that too. If Vichy becomes active, Axis can LL potential extra resources and have all Vichy factories produce for them. (gamey but legal).
Also, there's the Bordeaux trick. Send factories to Bordeaux. Put a couple of CV corps there before France fails. Germany will have a tough time taking the hex. I think there are circomstances when the railed factories can be reverted to Free France (gamey but legal)."
quote:
Post:
Michael Young 67773 :
"A lot of advice will vary depending on whether or not you are using LOC Vichy rules. However, some things are generally true.
2. If you are planning on France falling instead of pumping every possible resource, build point, and CW unit into keeping France alive, then....build the French MAR and their DIVS, shipping them along with the MTN to places where they might be Free.
3. Determine ahead of time who is going to be responsible for sending the FF build points. If its the US, then Equatorial Africa is good for the capital.
If it is the CW, then Madigascar is close to both India and South Africa. Either way, I think a factory is a good idea, and if you are using an oil rule, their SYNTH.
4. I prefer to build French land units over air units and let FF take a land with CW combined, giving a good mix of ability. A TRS or AMPH is nice, to go along with the naval assets you got away with.
5. If Syria is Vichy, consider getting the CW to take it, so Germany won't get the Iraqui oil, and sink the Vichy convoys to deny them Senegalese or Algerian resources. Vichy can become a big bank of saved BPs otherwise.
Which minor is the prefered choice for the Capital of FF?
--- This is linked to LL. You want a capital where it won't be too painful to send BPs. Senegal, if you happen to get it, is great. Second choice would be French Equatorial Africa.
Once FF is established, how does one go about getting them some production? Is loaning the prefered method or loaning enough to build a Factory the way to go?
--- If you can easily ship a resource to the capital, building a factory is a long term, solid investment (RoI in 43).
De Gaulle is expensive and not that useful before 44. I wouldn't build it except for the panache.
My favorite builds would be auxiliary units for CW. Whatever the CW can't do because of action limits. Sometimes, making a TRS or an AMPH is good. Even a few CPs can be precious. Other times, you want PARA, MTN, MAR DIV. Usually, the great fighter race between Germany and CW/USSR makes FTRs useless (there are already too many on board), but TACs can be nice."
quote:
Post:
Bryce, 66003:
"I ALWAYS purchase the Marine in JF40. If it arrives in time and can be evacuated to Gabon, it will become the most powerful unit in the Allied aresenal.
Why is this unit so nasty? Here is an example: Germany does a VF level 3, with 3 concessions, and grab one boat. The FF DoW VF. Its only hostile on a 10, on a 9 or less it doesn't care because the loyalty is 7 and the FF have a -4 bonus.
Then the FF invade someplace like Syria. They invade from a massive Brit fleet in the 1 box, stepping off of a TRS. Its rain. The notional is huge. IT DOESN'T MATTER. The FF can auto-invade from the 1 box no matter what. VF controlled units stacked in the invasion hex will automatically join up.
As the Axis, NEVER let the FF gain this unit. It can do untold damage in a few moves, like an early version of the air cavalry."
quote:
Post:
Bryce, 65792 :
"If there is one thing this particular game proved to me, Steve, it was that FF is the CW's 'third arm'. Feed your FF well. Yes its a pain, but nurture the little suckers. Always have them build 1 CP per turn in one of their minor countries each turn. Get their factory going.
Give them some LL to build the needed land or air or even naval unit.
Even after that, the US and CW should continue to give them enough BP to get out the FF chrome.
In terms of action limits, each FF unit is worth twice what the equivalent British unit is worth. Of particular power are FF HQ, FF Atr, FF Marines and FF Para, guns, Eng. If you have BP, build these units before you build your own. Trust me on this one.
When the German manages to pound your CP lane but you need to dress your line in France, or worse, invade Sardinia/Sicily before the invasion window closes, the FF CP sail into the gap, and you blow a bloody hole in Sardinia.
Or the FF CA initiates a combat between the RN and the sortied Kriegsmarine, while you do your planned air raids over Dresden.
Or the FF Para and Marine invade off of a British fleet, while you do a naval to cover your convoy lanes.
Or a FF unit and AT gun walk into an Allied hex the Germans just assaulted but failed to take, allowing the CW to do another air instead.
Or the FF Atr flies your Commandos into battle.
Or the FF Amph and Trs sail out to join your fleet, allowing you to choose a land and invade with an OC.
Late war, the FF (if you've geared them for air production) will field a large force of very nasty groundstriking bombers, freeing up your air missions for more needful things.
Let's put it this way: the way to dismember Russia is for Germany to do lands while escorted by Italian AC on air impulses. My last Germany sure we had ferocious luck, but Dave S. can attest to the 15 Italian AC flying cover for the German armies in the Ukraine. It meant I never had to stop, catch my breath, rebase planes to the front and go again.
It meant that I could use my rebases to get my short legged Stukas to the front so they could ground strike unescorted on the 4th or 5th impulse when the skies were empty of Russians. It meant I could try to attack every impulse. Worse, it meant that after an impulse or two, no Russian planes were left to counter the Italians that kept unflipping and going again. If you've ever seen this as a Russian, you don't want to see it again.
The standard Russian tactic is let the German get close, then walk away so his air force must rebase after you. Gives you a breather, maybe even 2 impulses before he's ready to stomp on you. With this
level of cooperation, there is no escape. You back up, they move forward and hug you again, the Italians rebase on top of them, along with some German Ftr rebases. They are ready to go...AGAIN.
Conversely, the way to beat Germany to its knees is for the western superpowers to employ FF the same way. Basically, it means that the US and CW can do more lands and airs instead of the combined moves. This is the single most common mistake players make, using combineds as the West.
This may sound a bit outrageous but consider, a FF that builds up its airpower will field perhaps as many as 10 excellent bombers plus Atr in 1944. CW and US Ftr escort and intercept for free. This means that the FF can choose to do an air impulse every turn if need be. And that means, forex, that the US can attack one hex in Occupied France EVERY impulse supported by 2 Para, and that it can do this for at least 3 impulses."
quote:
Post:
Bryce 69189 :
"FF in SE Asia - French Indo-China FF Home Country:
We had this same thing happen in our current game. I was FF, and selected French Indo-China (FIC) to serve as my Home Country.
The US player managed to move in:
+ one Catalina NAV
The CW player gave me moderate support. This included:
+ 1-2BP/turn
+ one 14 range Blenheim LND3
+ 2 British Indian TERR
Since I was also China, I gave FF max support:
+ 2-3BP/turn
+ Stillwell, 6-4 Mech, 1-5 Cav div (max using FTC)
FF built:
+ a 3-sided fort
+ FIC TERR
+ 3xGAR
+ 3xINF
+ 2xFTR
As you may have guessed, Japan did not go for FIC first, as they did not see a real problem. After all, they were not exactly worried about a few GAR and INF showing up there; they would be fairly easy to kill.
All hell broke loose in SO41 however. This is when the 3-sided fort showed up and then the Chinese Expeditionary force under Stillwell marched into Hanoi. The Japanese player was not pleased to see this event, because now Hanoi was a much tougher nut.
He was further disturbed to find out that the notional in Hanoi was 3 factors (2 for being a HC notional, +1 in the city) AND Chinese. The Chinese meanwhile had lumbered a 3-2 Artillery and an AA gun into the adjacent Chinese hexes, along with 3xFTR, 2xLND3 to guard it. I didn't care if Japan strat bombed China to the Stone Age, they weren't going to get Hanoi without a fight.
The FF had units in the mountain hexes adjacent to Hanoi, as well as in Hue, Saigon and every port hex (which are jungle).
Once the Japanese went to war, LL to FF stopped except for Chinese lending. And once they got serious about nailing Hanoi even Chinese lending stopped. It came down to a climactic one-shot battle for Hanoi involving one Jap Marine corps, one Para corps, one Para div plus one hex of troops (HQ + 2 units). They were supported by massive shore bombardment and many many Japanese AC.
I shot down the Para corps + ATR + pilot (yaayyyy!) and AA/ART did their best, but the result was still something like a +10 on the 2d10. The Japanese rolled a 17 and took the city (but note, they could have easily failed and lost their PARA + MAR). If it had held they would probably have never gotten Hanoi (Chinese had 6BP saved up waiting to see what happened).
The FF however, had still managed to hold out (thanx to bad weather) until late 42 or early 43. In that time the Japanese took 3 resources, 1 factory from Russia, beat up China some, Ceylon, Burma, Singapore, etc. They scrapped any plans to take out a (lightly held) Australia, NZ or a heavily held India. They were pretty much on the defensive.
Things I learned from this:
1) Aggressive LL by the Allies (more than what I received) would have been useful. FF could have built out her defenses accordingly (i.e., more FTR). This would have changed the shape of the South China Sea naval battles (with only 1 NAV with 1A2S + the Blenheim, I did not have much power to project in the air.
2) Aggressive troop and AC additions are a MUST. Next time I will push for, at the very least, the 2 Indian FTR and Indian NAV2, along with every long-ranged FTR/NAV in the US aresenal.
Most of these AC would go into the 2 box of the sea zone, where they would give the IJN fits (either sail their navy low to get LBA cover or high and risk getting caught and hammered in the air...shot down CVP are just as good as sinks IF the USN is lurking nearby).
3) Base every damn sub you have from JA40 on over in FIC. The US should start at that time a program of sub construction, at least 1 per turn, maybe even 2. All US subs should move to Manila and wait to attack (supply does not matter, you simply move out into the zone flipped, next turn rebase to FIC). The Brits should also have ~2 subs at this point and should shoehorn in another 3 perhaps by ND41. Don't waste them against the Italians, send them to Saigon to wait for the party.
The reason this is so nasty is simply because all the subs can group into the 2 box, where they are covered (in my case) by 5 FTR and a NAV. This isn't something that a IJN CP chain wants to take on, and if I had had MORE AC the situation would have been much worse.
4) As the Allies, you MUST go nail SIAM as early as possible. The Japanese in this game saw it coming and aligned them 1 impulse before we could (bad weather). Bangkok is almost a perfect port:
+ its a major port
+ its ALWAYS in supply (traces to the Vietnamese city in any weather)
+ its on the South China Sea
+ it CANNOT be invaded (no all seas-hexside)
+ practically ALL IJN CVP CANNOT port strike it (range 6 on the SCS
SZ, range 4 from BoBSZ)
+ land units can defend it from land attacks
If I had forseen it, we would have taken Bangkok early and then the USN would have rebased in through the Japanese pickets (ignoring presence during the rebase). There is a chance they'd get hit coming in but so what.
The presence of many lumbering US BB, SCS and say 4-5 CV in the 2 box from now on, covered by Chinese, British, French and US AC and escorted by about 8 subs would have put paid on any IJN Pacific ambitions. I know I wouldn't have wanted to go fight the boogers...not to mention the US BB support of the land units in the area.
I'm not saying the IJN couldn't have fought and hurt the Allies, just
saying:
+ with that much air support the fleet isn't going to get slammed that often in the air
+ surface battles would attrite both sides, thus a US victory
+ with so much poop in their convoy lanes the Japanese would turn turtle immediately. No units left to go anywhere. Who cares if you take Rabaul if you have no CP in the Sea of Japan?
Things I learned from Japan:
1) If the Allies select FIC as the FF HC you have an unsavory choice:
a) if they piss it away, no problem, continue your game
b) if they go hog wild, consider attacking early (problem: weather in the northern monsoon sucks until SO, ND and JF, do you really want
to DoW FF in JF41 (adding NINE chits to USE by ND41?).
c) otherwise, gear up to hit it immediately in ND41, JF42 with maximum force (artillery, all para, etc., maybe even an OC if desperate).
Either way, don't let it fester or you'll lose your convoy lanes 2
years early."
Edit: Have split into sections for easier reading.
< Message edited by npilgaard -- 8/17/2007 11:50:51 PM >
_____________________________
Regards
Nikolaj
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