pompack
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Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Big B
quote:
ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
I wonder why the "experience" rating isn't used instead of a "Zero bonus"? At the start of the war inexperienced allied fighter pilots -- i.e. those who haven't yet learned not to dogfight with the nimble Zeros and Oscars -- get shot down. As their experience goes up, they take advantage of their aircrafts' superior speed, firepower and protection and the Japanese get flamed. What's so hard about that?
Nothings hard about that ..I've been saying that all along...
B
From what I have read, the trouble was not experience but doctrine. In WW I, the aircraft were flemsy but highly maneuverable at low speed; high g maneuvers (either turns or pull-outs) would result in the wings shedding off the a/c. As the a/c got tougher and more powerful, the doctrine of horizontal maneuver did not change although it did stress tight high-speed turns. Up through 1941 inclusive, all US army pilots were taught to maneuver in the horizontal, just like WWI.
When these pilots (some of whom were quite experienced) met the Zero or Oscar for the first time, they fought the way they had been taught, in the horizontal, and they died. Chenault, even in the pre-AVG days, was preaching vertical maneuver; in fact the reason he was in China was he was forced out of the Army Air Corps due to his outspoken criticism of what would be called ACM doctrine today (and because he was apparantly rather unpleasant with anyone who disagreed with him). He sent back word to the War Department that Japanese a/c were far more maneuverable than AAC a/c and it was suicide to dogfight with them (and I think he was talking about NATES). They continued to ignore him. When he got the AVG formed, the first thing he did was re-write THE BOOK, stressing vertical maneuver while maintaining an altitude advantage and never turning with the opposition.
When WitP first came out, I thought (and still think) that the Zero Advantage was an elegant solution to this (although it might last a little longer than necesssary). The fact that the AVG is immune to the Zero Advantage simply reflects the fact that the AVG used verticle maneuver from the beginning while the AAC spent months realizing it was the proper way to use the advantages of the P40.
Refering to US Navy ACM, note that the famous Thatch Weave credited with allowing Wildcat pilots to fight Zeros and live through the experience is still a horizontal maneuver. The fact that it was highly inovative and stressed mutual support just indicates just how little the doctrine had changed since WWI.
I am not a pilot, simply reasonably well-read. My point is that the capabilities of the US a/c in 1941 were not as significant as they should have been since the pilots were taught to fight according to the "tried and true" methods of the past. Also they trained against each other; a P40 pilot who learned ACM per doctrine and practiced with another P40 could become highly experienced and still be meat on the table the first time he encountered a Zero or Oscar (and still no one learned, look at F4 against MiG 21 in 1967).
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RE: Informal POLL Re: Oscar - 
(but it's actually Camp Roberts off Hwy 101 in Central CA
). 
This also happens on the other side when early war allied planes fight the zero. 
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