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RE: AI for MWiF - Japan

 
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RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 5/23/2008 6:22:57 AM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		I haven't read all of the AIO threads, but has the influence of whether a player or players choose to use the Oil rules been factored into the AIO thinking? Especially in the case of the Axis powers the Oil rule is the single most powerful rule that influences their play and build considerations. The lack of a need to save oil or build Synth plants, especially in the early war, has a very dramatic impact on what they have available for each campaign.

For instance, it is not unusual for some German players to Build a Synth in September '39 which is 7BP and then need to use 4 or more oil for reorg if things go even slightly wrong. Thats 10BP they could spend on other things. 2 pilots and 3 Mil, or 2 mech, or an Armor and Mot corp, etc.

This can also have a huge impact on China.

I've played a couple of games w/o Oil and it had some really strange effects on the game. I usually get stuck with the Axis, as some of the people I play with, seem to have moral objections to playing the Germans and Japanese.

The reason I bring this up, is that the AIO threads I have read so far, all seem to assume use of the Oil rule. A good thing, particularly from the stand point of the Axis AIO's, as it is just too impactful not to consider. But as I mentioned above, the reverse is, potentially, equally true. Especially in the context of Japan, use of the Oil rule dominates Japanese strategy. And the need to capture and save oil resources color's everything that has been written about Japanese strategy so far.

Now let's reverse that, look at what the ability to use all of that Oil they are normally saving, does to Japanese strategy vis-a-vis China? How does the Chinese AIO counter this? How much more aggressive is Japan likely to be with some extra early builds? Even if its only 2BP a turn thats another Pilot or Mil or Garrison or FTR, 2 CV planes, or more probably a couple extra CV's when war with the U.S. comes. What impact does no Oil have on the Soviets when considering its stance and options against Japan?

Does Japan need to worry about the NEI and the guessing game they are usually playing with respect to U.S. Entry? Do they need to take Burma? Intervening in Persia has even greater potential impact, thats 2 more BP's per turn in '39.

Even assuming the Japanese use the strategies as outlined, they will have more to accomplish them with. If I remember correctly in one of the old WiF manuals, WiF4? Said that a BP in '39 is equal to 3 in '42 given the greater potential long term impact that early builds have.

There have been numerous discussions regarding German strategy. All of them are heavily influenced by Rumania. Why is Rumania such a predominant point in German Strategic thinking?

What could the Italians do with that extra resource? All of a sudden their economy is 20% stronger.

Oil is a loadstone tied around the neck of the Axis. It makes the game more realistic, but do we really think that players are always going to play with the oil rule? Especially inexperienced or new to WiF players? I for one, will probably play a few games w/o oil, just to get some revenge on the Allies. Who seem to always be swimming in their lakes of oil!

My 2 cents to the discussion.

Jason

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 91
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 5/23/2008 6:49:08 AM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Norman,

I've seen the Japanese use a Russia first strategy in games where oil isn't used. In one game, my Japanese ally was strat bombing Sverdlovsk from Novosibirsk. He still took his perimeter, but he had knocked the Chinese back to the Chunking plain, in part because of extra builds he had available by not having to worry about saving oil for the fleet. He used his O-chit to shatter the Chinese line in the south, got a couple of lucky rolls and was able to eliminate the CC during the period from summer 40 summer of '41.

He had invaded Siberia in '39 and was able to grab Chita and Vlad in the surprise impulse. Soviet's had set up for an attack on Persia and Rumania. When the Russians failed to make peace with the Japanese in early '40, I started building up on the Polish border and making noise about a 1940 Barbarossa. France was on its knees in April. Ooze war in the west and a 50-50 shot against the BEF in Antwerp meant France was in trouble early. My demonstrations in western Poland allowed France to survive until late May/June, but it was worth it to cause the panic in the Soviet player. As he immediately offered terms to the Japanese. In 1940 the Soviet Garrison in the west was well less than inadequate. The Japanese then were able to break the Pact in September '41, and by jumping off from Chita they drove the Soviets off of the Pacific map in rapid fashion.

Since the Japanese had nothing to do from April of '40 until December of '41 they focused on the Chinese. By the Summer of '41 the Chinese were on the ropes and by the end of August '41 they had the Garrison to break the Soviet/Japanese peace after redeploying their faster units and Air Force from China.

The Soviets, quite literally, were 1 impulse away from total collapse when the weather decided to go bad for 1 full year and I made a couple of really boneheaded mistakes with the Italians, which lost us Italy 1 year ealier than needed and ultimately lost us the game.

Jason

< Message edited by Astarix -- 5/23/2008 6:51:12 AM >

(in reply to Norman42)
Post #: 92
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 5/29/2008 10:57:25 AM   
npilgaard

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
I haven't read all of the AIO threads, but has the influence of whether a player or players choose to use the Oil rules been factored into the AIO thinking? Especially in the case of the Axis powers the Oil rule is the single most powerful rule that influences their play and build considerations. The lack of a need to save oil or build Synth plants, especially in the early war, has a very dramatic impact on what they have available for each campaign.


Good point about AIO and no-oil 'option'.

As for what additional units are allowed to be built with the extra BP I think the AIO will handle that fairly easy - the usual build-routines will probably be able to handle that.

As you note, the effect on strategic decisions are important, though

quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Does Japan need to worry about the NEI and the guessing game they are usually playing with respect to U.S. Entry? Do they need to take Burma? Intervening in Persia has even greater potential impact, thats 2 more BP's per turn in '39.


I haven't played a game without oil for a long, long time, but I will assume the following:
- it is much harder for the US to force Japan to DoW on NEI by closing for the oil-trade.
- thus Japan can stretch it longer before starting the Pacific war. The NEI (oil) resources are of course still important for production, and need to be taken by (surprise) invasions, but now no more than e.g. Malayan resources.
- if Japan waits to long by DoW then the US/CW may come first. Unless their fleets are around and finding by surprise the effect is usually not that great though - except that Japan won't get the precious surprise invasions. So maybe it will be worth it, if Japan plans to do a late DoW to buy time for China or the USSRm and to reduce US all-game production, that Germany doesn't DoW Netherlands, and thus the NEI are neutral and can be surprised regardless of an CW DoW on Japan, that comes before Japanese DoW
- whatever the choice of strategy, I think that the Japanese can afford to be more aggressive - either building more land (and air) units and going against China, USSR and/or India etc. or naval / air if focusing on the Pacific.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Astarix
Oil is a loadstone tied around the neck of the Axis. It makes the game more realistic, but do we really think that players are always going to play with the oil rule? Especially inexperienced or new to WiF players? I for one, will probably play a few games w/o oil, just to get some revenge on the Allies. Who seem to always be swimming in their lakes of oil!


Try using the WiFCON gas rules - we have used them in my playing group for the latest couple of games, and they work well, imho - much less counting at the end of turn, and the Allies (especially CW, but also to some extent the -US) have a loadstone (maybe one that is a little lighter than the Axis' one though ) around their neck.

Btw, another single optional rule that has a great impact on Japan is the DIVs on SCSs rule - without that rule Japans invasion capabilities (especially surprise and long range invasions) will be severely restricted. If not playing with that rule, priority has to be clear on which hexes are to be invaded during the 'octopus' (don't know if that is an 'official' term , but we usually use that name for Japans DoW impulse(s) when they invade and grab stuff all over the place)

_____________________________

Regards
Nikolaj

(in reply to Astarix)
Post #: 93
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 5/29/2008 4:35:41 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		I think Samuel Elliot Morrison, the war historian of the USN, may have come up with the "Octopus" term, referring to the Japanese invasion of Java if I recall correctly. Or he might have borrowed it from Japanese or US operational planning during the war. So that is a great way to refer to it.

(in reply to npilgaard)
Post #: 94
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 5/29/2008 10:27:48 PM   
npilgaard

 

Posts: 175
Joined: 5/3/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting - thanks.
(A nice thing about this forum: no matter what little detail about WWII one is asking for, there is always someone around here who knows the answer... )

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Nikolaj

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 95
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 1:37:02 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline 		As for the placement of the Mighty Imperial Japanese Navy at the start of the Global War scenario.

I like to have the Strike Fleet composed of the slow BB, slow CV, in a port able to sail into the Sea next to Russia and the China Sea. They will move in the future to Canton for the invasions around the South China Sea, but are a threat to Russia initialy.

The rest of the fleet (Combined with the 5 moving CVs and BBs, Mobile with the Mogami cruisers, and the last one with the 6 moving CVs and some cruisers) is based in Tokyo, where it can go anywhere needed later, but preferably nowhere before the show begins in late 1941, to save oil.

SUBs are preferably based in Tokyo too. Having them in Truk is fine, sometimes preferable, but you may use them initialy in the Indian Ocean, so a rebase will have to be done before they are fully threatening anyway.


1 CP is placed in the sea adjacent to Russia, to ship the 1 RP from Manchuria to Japan. This also opens a second supply route from Japan to Asia in case of emergencies. Good to be ready for that since day 1.

5 CP are placed in the sea east of Tokyo, for the US / Jap trade agreement.

3 CP are placed in the South China sea, to bring back the NEI oil, and to ship Hainan RP to Canton for use in the red factory there.

5 CP are placed in the China Sea, for the 2 NEI oil, and for the formose RP and both extra Chinese RP. 2 of them can be alternatively placed in the sea next to Russia. An extra one can be placed here at start, if a Chinese resource is near to fall into your hands. 2 for 2 resources.

1 CP are placed in each of the Marianas, Bismarck Sea and possibly the one west of the Marshall, for supply purposes.

That leaves 3 reserve CP (minus any extra put in the China Sea or the sea area next to Russia), that are spread out (as I always prefer them) between ports able to go to China Sea and the sea adjacent to Russia, Tokyo, Canton.

4 more will be needed to ship the 2 Malayan RP.
3 more will be needed to ship the 3 resources that Japan can hope to grab in China (Sian + the 2 south ones).
2 more will be needed to ship the Philipinne RP.
4 more will be needed to ship the 2 conquered NEI oil.
2 more will be needed to ship the Indochinese RP. Maybe only 1 if the railway is clear of Chinese units, but not likely.

That's 15 CP needed, so 7 to build if you count that you have 5 that you take back from the US / Japan agreement, and 3 in reserve. To start the Pacific war with a confortable reserve of CP (about 10), you'd better build at least 2 per turn since day 1.

Talking about builts, I like finishing all the 5 moving CVs and the heavy CV from the Cosntruction / Repair pool before S/O 41, and I also like finishing all heavy cruisers, who are a real bang for their money. I also finish the Yamato, for the solid target, and the occasional AA it provides.

I also like to begin the Pacific War (all be ready for S/O 41 at the latest, so that all is ready if USentry is threatening) with a minimum of 4 TRS & 2 AMPH, preferably 7-8 total of them, or the 6 plus 1-2 begun hulls. This is to allow for 2 full invasions on Japanese D-Day (Philippines & NEI), plus leaves 2 TRS for reinforcing garrisons and various duties accomplished on Japanese D-Day.

(in reply to npilgaard)
Post #: 96
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 5:23:22 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		I like putting the CVs in Canton to start, along with the Battle Cruisers and of course some of the excellent CA. A few of these I like in Hainan actually, with a division or two. The purpose? Ready for an intervention in Persia, though this is more likely in 1940. The range factor is what comes in to play here, it is a bit surprising how that varies on the Japanese fleet CVs. Extra CPs are in Canton for this same purpose as you won't need supply to Truk for quite a while yet.

In general I just like the Middle East option for the Japanese.

The port Froonp mentions for a good place to start the BB fleet is Fukuoka.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 97
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 6:08:43 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		The Japanese can of course engage in their own mucking around in the Middle East, seizing Saudi Arabia and maybe even Iraq. It means building more convoys but extra oil, especially stuff that cannot get embargoed, can help you wait out the Americans a bit longer.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 98
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 6:25:41 PM   
sajbalk


Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline 		One caveat to Patrice's statements, if you are using Classic ships and extended Japanese CV range, the 4 and 3 point CV's will be quite useful in S. China as ground strikers.

Little use for the fleet otherwise until General War; however if the USSR gets frisky, shore bombardment from the slow battleships Patrice mentioned will be invaluable.





_____________________________

Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 99
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 8:18:25 PM   
Gurggulk


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/28/2009
Status: offline 		Based on Froonp's guildlines for setup, here is a suggestion.
Using Oil option
Not Using Limited Overseas Supply

Truk, 2 Submarines

Fukuoka:
Hosho, Mutsu, Nagato, Hyuga, Ise, Yamashiro, Fuso, Nachi, Furutaka, Kako, Idzumo. 2 Transports with Both at start Marines.

Tokyo: (Kido Butai)
Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Ryujo, Kongo, Haruna, Kirishima, Chikuma, Kumano, Maya, Chokai, Ashigara, Myoko, Tone, Suzuya, Mikuma, Haguro, Mogami, 6 convoy, Amph, Transport

Convoy Line
South China Sea, 3 Convoy
China Sea, 5 Convoy
Japanese Coast, 5 Convoy
Sea of Japan, 1 Convoy


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 100
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 8:56:01 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sajbalk
One caveat to Patrice's statements, if you are using Classic ships and extended Japanese CV range, the 4 and 3 point CV's will be quite useful in S. China as ground strikers.

A remark here : MWiF uses SiF ships, and never uses Classic ships.

(in reply to sajbalk)
Post #: 101
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/13/2009 11:20:45 PM   
sajbalk


Posts: 264
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Davenport, Iowa
Status: offline 		Thank you Patrice; I did not know that.

Thus, allow me to amend my remarks to state that if playing without the separate carrier planes, the longer range CV's will be of use off the S. China coast.




_____________________________

Steve Balk
Iowa, USA

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 102
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 7/14/2009 12:06:41 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		plus, you can set them up at sea with no need of a naval mission to have them contribute air power to the campaign north of Canton. thanks Andrew.

(in reply to sajbalk)
Post #: 103
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:11:07 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		As I promised Steve to go through all the forums post of all AI for MWiF – XXX, here is the result for Japan. A few good suggestions from forum members. I have now compiled it to define 6 possible starting convoy routes for Japan, from which the AIO will chose from.

Since the Japan needs to be able to; minimise the effect of the USSR surprise attack against the convoy lines and port attack, sometimes have the option to intervene in Persia etc, the reserve convoy placements also interesting.

As always if you have any comments about these convoy routes, we would love to hear them. If nothing else, you could help us decide on their probabilities.


################################################################

Japan Convoys plans/routes Global war

Route 1: NEI and China resources (Standard).
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 6 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Very low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 4 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 5 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 30%


Route 2: Sea of Japan
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 5 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. Sea supply in Sea of Japan, ship home the Manchuria resource and might be useful if planning a attack against the USSR.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Low risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 3 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Route 3: Truk, NEI and China resources
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 5 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Low risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 3 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 4 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Route 4: Bismark Sea and The Marianas.
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 4 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Medium risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%

Route 5: Sea of Japan, Bismark Sea and The Marianas.
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 3 CP in reserve. Sea supply to Truk. Sea supply in Sea of Japan, ship home the Manchuria resource and might be useful if planning a attack against the USSR.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Low risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• High risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30 %
C) Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10%
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 1 CP 10%

Route 6: Arabian Sea
Route is used to get home all currently controlled resources in China and bring home the vital NEI oil. 4 CP in reserve. No supply to Truk. Sea supply all the way to Arabian Sea, with a dedicated supply TRS Japan can ex intervene in Persia during a USSR attack or make a naval base in Italian controlled Italian Somaliland once Italy is active Major power, strike in the middle east etc.
During a USSR surprise attack:
• Medium risk of having the Japanese forces in Main land Asia out of supply
• Medium risk to have Japan/US convoy route irreparable.

reserve convoy placements %
A) Canton: 2 CP Fukuoka 2 CP 50%
B) Canton: 2 CP Tokyo 2 CP 10 %
C) Canton: 1 CP Tokyo 3 CP 10 %
D) Canton: 1 CP Fukuoka: 1 CP Tokyo 2 CP 30%


Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %



Optional rules that might affect Convoy Deployment %
• USSR setup against Persia and/or Manchuria/Korea.
• AIO Strategy, Italian entry.
• Limited Overseas Supply
• In the presence of the enemy
• Rough Seas
• Convoys In Flame
• Oil tankers
• Cruisers in flames
• Oil Rules
• Saving Oil Resources and Build Points
• AIO Strategy


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"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 104
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:11:46 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 1: NEI and China resources (Standard)




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 105
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:12:15 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 2: Sea of Japan




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 106
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:12:51 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 3: Truk, NEI and China resources




Attachment (1)

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"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 107
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:13:32 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 4: Bismark Sea and The Marianas




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 108
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:14:19 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 5: Sea of Japan, Bismark Sea and The Marianas




Attachment (1)

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"'Malta - The Thorn in Rommel's Side"

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 109
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 6:14:50 PM   
peskpesk


Posts: 2347
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline 		Route 6: Arabian Sea




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 110
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 10:23:52 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %

Routes 3-5 are the only ones that provide a supply route for Truk, that is a strategic (and game) objective. And also to Kwajalein that is a game objective.

I would call Route 1, the rookie route. This was my convoy route when I was a rookie playing WiF. But I soon discovered that having convoys in the Sea of Japan could help in putting Asia in supply, and though that could lessen the consequences of an US raid into the China Sea. Moreover, the route through the Sea of Japan is 1 sea area farther from the US Navy bases, so the US Navy have a harder time raiding here.

Route 2 is better in that it allows 2 supply routes to Asia. But it could be improved by having more CP in the Sea of Japan, and less in the China Sea. Basicaly, while Manchuria & Korea are Japanese controlled, all the extra RP from Manchuria (1) and China (1 initialy, but soon they are 3) could go through the Sea of Japan instead of the China Sea. The only resources that can't have another route are the Formose resource, and the oil from the NEI. The Hainan resource only leaves Hainan to reach Canton through the South China Sea, it don't go to Japan.

But Route 2 does not provide supply to Truk. That's 80% of having no supply to Truk until it is decided otherwise. I prefer having supply initialy, so that I don't have to worry later to put it in supply.

Route 3 is an improvement of Route 1 in that it is providing supply to Truk. But it is not diversified enough in regards to supply to Asia.

Route 4 is an improvement of route 3, with 2 supply routes to Truk, which is a bare minimum later when Truk is threatened. It also puts Rabaul in supply which is good. But this is not as important as for Truk, as Rabaul is not threatened from an US surprise invasion.

Route 5 is definitely the best IMO, as it puts Truk in supply through 2 sea areas as Route 4, and it also diversifies the routes to Asia by using the Sea of Japan Sea Area. It could be improved by having 3 CP there, and 3 in the China Sea. But I personally would leave 5 in the China Sea, and put 3-4 in the Sea of Japan, so that I'm ready to transport the RP I will gain in China (I expect to gain 3 before the end of 1940).

Route 6 is un-necessary, unless you see the Russian ready to strike Persia, and even if so, you can have 2-3 CP in Canton ready to sail in the Bay of Bengal plus the Arabian Sea to take advantage of the Persian oil and putting any peacekeepers there in supply.

My percentages would be :
Route 1 10% or less
Route 2 15% or less
Route 3 15 % (less than route 4)
Route 4 20 % (less than route 5)
Route 5 35 %
Route 6 5 %


< Message edited by Froonp -- 8/23/2009 10:24:03 PM >

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 111
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/23/2009 11:13:36 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Base Convoy Deployment %
Route 1 45%
Route 2 35%
Route 3 5 %
Route 4 5 %
Route 5 5 %
Route 6 5 %

Routes 3-5 are the only ones that provide a supply route for Truk, that is a strategic (and game) objective. And also to Kwajalein that is a game objective.

I would call Route 1, the rookie route. This was my convoy route when I was a rookie playing WiF. But I soon discovered that having convoys in the Sea of Japan could help in putting Asia in supply, and though that could lessen the consequences of an US raid into the China Sea. Moreover, the route through the Sea of Japan is 1 sea area farther from the US Navy bases, so the US Navy have a harder time raiding here.

Route 2 is better in that it allows 2 supply routes to Asia. But it could be improved by having more CP in the Sea of Japan, and less in the China Sea. Basicaly, while Manchuria & Korea are Japanese controlled, all the extra RP from Manchuria (1) and China (1 initialy, but soon they are 3) could go through the Sea of Japan instead of the China Sea. The only resources that can't have another route are the Formose resource, and the oil from the NEI. The Hainan resource only leaves Hainan to reach Canton through the South China Sea, it don't go to Japan.

But Route 2 does not provide supply to Truk. That's 80% of having no supply to Truk until it is decided otherwise. I prefer having supply initialy, so that I don't have to worry later to put it in supply.

Route 3 is an improvement of Route 1 in that it is providing supply to Truk. But it is not diversified enough in regards to supply to Asia.

Route 4 is an improvement of route 3, with 2 supply routes to Truk, which is a bare minimum later when Truk is threatened. It also puts Rabaul in supply which is good. But this is not as important as for Truk, as Rabaul is not threatened from an US surprise invasion.

Route 5 is definitely the best IMO, as it puts Truk in supply through 2 sea areas as Route 4, and it also diversifies the routes to Asia by using the Sea of Japan Sea Area. It could be improved by having 3 CP there, and 3 in the China Sea. But I personally would leave 5 in the China Sea, and put 3-4 in the Sea of Japan, so that I'm ready to transport the RP I will gain in China (I expect to gain 3 before the end of 1940).

Route 6 is un-necessary, unless you see the Russian ready to strike Persia, and even if so, you can have 2-3 CP in Canton ready to sail in the Bay of Bengal plus the Arabian Sea to take advantage of the Persian oil and putting any peacekeepers there in supply.

My percentages would be :
Route 1 10% or less
Route 2 15% or less
Route 3 15 % (less than route 4)
Route 4 20 % (less than route 5)
Route 5 35 %
Route 6 5 %


The supply issue depends on optional rule choice.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 112
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 1:07:15 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		Why Route 6 is useless.

World in Flames: Global war (see 24.4.7) Impulse 2 the USSR DoW’s Persia.

Asian/Pacific Maps
Zhukov
3 Infantry (change the 2 weakest to Siberians)
2 Cavalry
2 Submarines
1 Gun

Persia
1 Militia
1 Cavalry

1 CP is in the Caspian Sea.
The Red Arrow with the white S is 2 Siberian infantry and 1 Cavalry.
The other Red Arrow is where you can place the Long Range Soviet bomber from the European side (If you get it use it to support your attacks in Persia).

The Persian capital is 4 hexes away and I’m in supply as long as I stay on the coast.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 8/24/2009 1:26:59 AM >

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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to peskpesk)
Post #: 113
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 1:33:58 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline 		The Red Arrow with the white Z is Zukov and 1 Cavalry.
The other Red Arrow is a Soviet Infantry and 1 gun.
The 2 submarines are split in the 2 northern minor ports. 

Vladivostok

The notional unit has 1 combat factor, modified by:
+1 it is a city hex;
+1 the hex is in the home country of the major power that controls the hex;
+1 it is not stacked with a land unit, but is in the ZOC of a friendly corps or army;
+ the shore bombardment modifier for each invading unit;
-1 if surprised (see 15.).

The notional unit has a strength of 3 + the shore bombardment modifier.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 8/24/2009 1:54:35 AM >

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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 114
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 6:30:07 AM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Why Route 6 is useless.

I wonder if anyone understood what you posted. I did not myself.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 115
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 1:49:03 PM   
Mike Parker

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 12/30/2008
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Well he's saying that a Soviet attack on Persia is a strong strategy that using route 6 for the Japanese can help deal with.  I am not saying he is right, I am just saying what I think he is saying.  I await the analysis.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 116
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 4:10:51 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Just because the USSR can set up to attack Persia right off does not automatically mean the Japanese convoy set-up in the Arabian Sea is of no use. After all, the Japanese could easily gobble up Saudi Arabia or Iraq.

Since the Japanese get to see the USSR set-up before they do theirs, they could pounce on the USSR themselves. With the Red Army initially posted around Persia, 3-4 resources would be all too easy for Japan to seize.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Mike Parker)
Post #: 117
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 4:35:53 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Japan hitting on Russia because the Russians have set up for Persia is not as easy as it may sound. The single scale map makes the Manchuria area very large and Japan's moves there will take time letting the Russians set up defenses long before all three resources are lost.  Japan can set up to cut the Russian rail connection easily enough but taking the resources themselves is another story.

Lars




(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 118
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 6:13:28 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 791
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
Status: offline 		If USSR DOWs Persia, Japan should align Persia and go take the oil fields on the coastline.

_____________________________

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"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 119
RE: AI for MWiF - Japan - 8/24/2009 7:16:47 PM   
coregames


Posts: 470
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

If USSR DOWs Persia, Japan should align Persia and go take the oil fields on the coastline.

That is our plan in the next game as the Axis. In the six games of WiF i have played, I'm surprised no one had done it so far.

_____________________________

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Keith Henderson

(in reply to micheljq)
Post #: 120
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