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RE: Operation Minotaur

 
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RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/1/2006 12:12:28 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Going to try and spread my LR CAP out a little he is getting to many hits on my convoys in and around Sulawesi

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/10/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 224
N1K1-J George x 26
D4Y Judy x 75
B6N Jill x 97
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 27

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 245

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tomini , at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 29
Ki-21 Sally x 80
Ki-49 Helen x 13

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 3 destroyed

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 15
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Morotai , at 43,68


Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 7
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 14
P-47D Thunderbolt x 13
B-25J Mitchell x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed


Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 10
P-40N Warhawk x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 14


No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 5
PB4Y Liberator x 18
B-24J Liberator x 118


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 201

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 4
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 12


No Allied losses

Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 37
B-29 Superfortress x 24


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 33

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 12


No Allied losses

Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14
SB2C Helldiver x 74
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 64


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 92
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 49th Division, at 32,69

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 9
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 17

Allied aircraft
PB4Y Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 2 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 40,72

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
SC SC-640, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 44,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 23

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 damaged


Allied Ships
AK Alamosa, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Serpens, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SC SC-1062
AK Lyra
SC SC-743
SC SC-699


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 43,72

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Johanne Justesen, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1415 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 825

Defending force 31618 troops, 216 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 583



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tomini

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1647 troops, 19 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 104

Defending force 813 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2


Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2nd Naval Construction Battalion Wiped Out at Tomini by attrition!!!

(in reply to String)
Post #: 781
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/1/2006 12:16:40 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Spotted Barges at Pomali going to send a paid of DD's from my CVE TF to each of the bases in the area including Makali and Macassaer and Pomali.

I figure he is reinforcing Pomali with barges well 2 Bristol class DD's should fix that

These Nicks are getting to be annoying something will need to be done !!!!


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/11/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 207
N1K1-J George x 47
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 48
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 23
Runway hits 247

Aircraft Attacking:
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 458
N1K1-J George x 25
J2M Jack x 129
D4Y Judy x 122
B6N Jill x 187
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 64

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
44 casualties reported

Airbase hits 37
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 557

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tomini , at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 59
Ki-21 Sally x 95
Ki-49 Helen x 20

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 7 destroyed

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 50
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sorong , at 42,74


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 9
B-29 Superfortress x 13


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 7
P-40N Warhawk x 12
P-47D Thunderbolt x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
74 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 31

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 11
P-40N Warhawk x 2
B-25J Mitchell x 25


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 39

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 8
P-47D Thunderbolt x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 16


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 10
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 20


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 24

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 3rd NZ/A Division, at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 17
Ki-21 Sally x 14

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 2 damaged



Allied ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 43,72

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK George H. Himes
AK George H. Powell, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Beltrami, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK George Vancouver, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
74 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 41,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Seaman A. Knapp, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Namlea at 38,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 3

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 2 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 45,71

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 33
F6F-5N Hellcat x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Namlea at 38,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 18

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 destroyed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 822

Defending force 31743 troops, 220 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 584





(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 782
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/1/2006 1:20:42 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		In three days I get 2 more Essexes and about 10 more LST's at West Coast that will bring my fleet up to strength I probably wont wait for the LST's but I will speed run the CV's to Kwaj to join up with the rest of the fleet I would still like to try and hit 1st June for my diversion rtaid if nothing else.

I will

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 783
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/1/2006 1:42:33 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Counted it up

AP's 156k load
AK's 1.2m load
LST/V/D/CT 140k

So thats enough for 4 Divs on Assault Shipping or about 7 of AP's.

I may be able to bring 5th Amphib and 3 US on the first wave so all 7 Divisions in the first wave.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 784
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/1/2006 2:54:23 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Well where to begin.....

I got PZB'd no question

Somehow he managed to slip a small Carrier TF into the West Coast/ PH route.

They savaged a small troop/supply convoy with a base force and severl CB units aboards I expect several tosink.

I had moved my 2 available CV's to Kwaj so all I have is a TF of 2 10 -11 sys CV's and 1 CVL available to hunt them down.

In one day 1 2 new Essex's class arrive on West Coast and will immediatly take to see with no warm up cruise

Sulawesi is getting a Guadalcanal feel to it neither side is really committing.

WhitePlains sank I was to busy LRCAPPING other TF's and forgot to protect my main one.

My Fleet CV's are moving to cover them. The mission goes on.



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/13/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Makale, 32,67, firing at TF 65
TF 65 troops unloading over beach at Makale, 32,67


Japanese Ships
PC Ch 30

Japanese ground losses:
627 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wasile , at 41,69

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 4 damaged


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 33,68

Japanese Ships
DD Fujinami
PC Hirado

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-58, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-61, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-170
LCT LCT-175
LCT LCT-176, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-177, Shell hits 1
LCT LCT-478
LCVP 532F
LCVP 542M
LCVP 542Q
LCVP 543F
LCVP 543G
LCVP 543H
LCVP 543L
LCVP 592F
LCVP 592R
LCVP 592S
LCVP 593F
LCVP 593G
LCVP 593J
LCVP 593K
LCVP 593L


Allied ground losses:
183 casualties reported
Guns lost 6
Vehicles lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 444
N1K1-J George x 22
J2M Jack x 133
D4Y Judy x 104
B6N Jill x 166
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 64

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported

Airbase hits 40
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 281

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 3
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 12


No Allied losses

Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 7
B-25J Mitchell x 42
B-29 Superfortress x 17


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 72

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 23

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Macassar at 30,69


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 3
SB2C Helldiver x 50


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
APD APD-2, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
PG Shinko Maru #2, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PG Edo Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
PG Hakkaisan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,73

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 22
D4Y Judy x 19
P1Y Frances x 8
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 60

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 41
Corsair IV x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 19 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 4 destroyed, 4 damaged
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 46 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island
CVE Corregidor, Bomb hits 2
CVE White Plains, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 120,60

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 20
D4Y Judy x 30
B6N Jill x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Starr King, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Edwin M. Stanton
AK William B. Leeds, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK William Ford Nichols, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Cleveland Forbes, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Henry L. Abott, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Joe C. S. Blackburn, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Augustin Stahl, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK General Fleisher
AK Harrington Emerson, Bomb hits 1
AK Weltevreden, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Alexander Majors, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
396 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 4


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 20


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PC Hirado, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fujinami, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 9
SB2C Helldiver x 24


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Kembu Maru
AP Nihonkai Maru
AP Minowa Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Meisho Maru
AP Netsuda Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,73

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 2
D4Y Judy x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 24

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 43,73

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK John Hart, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 120,60

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 18
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 2 damaged
B6N Jill: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Harrington Emerson, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Weltevreden, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK General Fleisher, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AK Starr King, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Edwin M. Stanton, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Benjamin Waterhouse, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
230 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 3

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 14
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 22
Ki-30 Ann x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-30 Ann: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Drayton
DD Gansevoort, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 5 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Caldwell, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Laffey, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 11 damaged

Allied Ships
DD McCalla
DD Charles Badger

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 40,72

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 21

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Charlevoix, Shell hits 4
AK Nightingale, Shell hits 12
AK West Notus, Shell hits 8
AK American Builder, Shell hits 4
AK Sidney Hauptmann, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 40,72

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Nightingale

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 6526 troops, 84 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 142

Defending force 3051 troops, 21 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 139

Japanese max assault: 292 - adjusted assault: 68

Allied max defense: 105 - adjusted defense: 67

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0


Japanese ground losses:
501 casualties reported
Guns lost 10

Allied ground losses:
109 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 820

Defending force 31573 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 588


Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 785
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/2/2006 7:54:27 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		PZB lands a mixed Bde at Makale

Its vety Guadalcanal like.

My AF's are low on suppkies so CAP doesnt alway fly

I am shpooting down 100+ a day so attrition is working !!!!

Andy

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/14/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Makale, 32,67, firing at TF 65
TF 65 troops unloading over beach at Makale, 32,67


8 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese ground losses:
63 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 60,59

Japanese Ships
MSW W.27
MSW W.25
MSW W.2
PC Etoforu

Allied Ships
SS Grenadier, hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Namlea , at 38,73

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 19

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 60,59

Japanese Ships
AP Bokuyo Maru
MSW W.27
MSW W.25
MSW W.2
PC Etoforu

Allied Ships
SS Grenadier, hits 4, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 150
N1K1-J George x 52
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 57
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 234

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 405
N1K1-J George x 24
J2M Jack x 128
D4Y Judy x 99
B6N Jill x 149
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 63

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 45
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 231

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tomini , at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 35
Ki-21 Sally x 111
Ki-49 Helen x 24

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 48
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 19
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 17
Beaufort V-IX x 14
B-25J Mitchell x 29
PB4Y Liberator x 11
B-24J Liberator x 63
B-29 Superfortress x 20


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 170
Port hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 11
P-40N Warhawk x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 83
PB4Y Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 140


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
43 casualties reported

Airbase hits 18
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 125
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 19
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 10
P-38J Lightning x 20
F-5C Lightning x 6
A-20G Havoc x 60
PB4Y Liberator x 22
B-24J Liberator x 125
B-29 Superfortress x 40


Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
33 casualties reported

Airbase hits 25
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 164

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 6
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 10


No Allied losses

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 29


No Allied losses

Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 54
P-38J Lightning x 5
B-25J Mitchell x 61


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 38
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
Kittyhawk III x 24
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 27
P-40N Warhawk x 51
P-38J Lightning x 7


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 14


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 7
F6F-5N Hellcat x 4
TBM Avenger x 29


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 23

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 503rd USA Para Regiment, at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 18

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 3rd NZ/C Division, at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 27
Ki-49 Helen x 15

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 7
SB2C Helldiver x 20
TBM Avenger x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Minowa Maru, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 8
Corsair IV x 4
SB2C Helldiver x 26
TBM Avenger x 16


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Kembu Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Meisho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Anrugu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AP Koei Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kunimitsu Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 25
D4Y Judy x 16
G4M2 Betty x 18
P1Y Frances x 27
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 22

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 27
F6F Hellcat x 53
Corsair IV x 16
F6F-5N Hellcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 25 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 4 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 18 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 23 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 22 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 6 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 7 destroyed, 11 damaged
Corsair IV: 6 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Anzio
LCT LCT-134

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 43,73

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged


Allied Ships
AK Joseph Simon

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 43,73

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed


Allied Ships
AK Admiral Gove, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 60,57

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 21, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PC Ch 29
PC Shonan Maru #7
PC Shonan Maru #6
PC Fumi Maru
PC Aguni
PC Awaji
APD APD-46

Allied Ships
SS Drum


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 821

Defending force 31420 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 590


Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2010 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 168

Defending force 6021 troops, 63 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 109



(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 786
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/2/2006 7:58:53 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		PZB is reinforcing the area bombers reported at Kendari I am moving the fleet carriers to support the CVE's

Another 100 enemy aircraft destroyed.

This constant attrition of his pilots and airframes has to keep exhausting the Japanese Economy replacing losses even if he doesnt train the pilots.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/15/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Makale at 32,67

My DD's force his transports out asnd sink a few


Japanese Ships
AG AG-109
AG AG-121
AG AG-5050
AG AG-5068
AG AG-5087
AG AG-5117, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
AG AG-2049, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AG AG-2055, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AG AG-2065
AG AG-2089
AG AG-2091
AG AG-2098

Allied Ships
DD Charles Badger
DD McCalla
DD Drayton

Japanese ground losses:
278 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 32,71

Some PT Boats join in the fun

Japanese Ships
AG AG-115
AG AG-5033, Shell hits 2
AG AG-5088, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AG AG-2090, Shell hits 8, on fire
AG AG-2097

Allied Ships
PT PT-522
PT PT-523
PT PT-524
PT PT-525

Japanese ground losses:
146 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Makale, 32,67, firing at TF 41
TF 41 troops unloading over beach at Makale, 32,67


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 60,57

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 29
PC Shonan Maru #7
PC Shonan Maru #6
PC Fumi Maru
PC Aguni
PC Awaji
APD APD-46

Allied Ships
SS Drum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 161
D4Y Judy x 27
B6N Jill x 30
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 35

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 143

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 395
N1K1-J George x 25
J2M Jack x 127
D4Y Judy x 123
B6N Jill x 134
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 68

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
58 casualties reported

Airbase hits 26
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 260

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tomini , at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 34
Ki-21 Sally x 113
Ki-49 Helen x 27

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed
Spitfire VIII: 4 destroyed
P-47D Thunderbolt: 7 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 37
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Makale , at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 45
Ki-21 Sally x 76

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 10 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 16
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 21
Beaufort V-IX x 15
P-38J Lightning x 13
B-25J Mitchell x 28
PB4Y Liberator x 10
B-24J Liberator x 64
B-29 Superfortress x 18


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
82 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 81
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 9


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 12
P-40N Warhawk x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 84
PB4Y Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 123


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
63 casualties reported

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 90
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 19
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6
P-38J Lightning x 32
F-5C Lightning x 7
A-20G Havoc x 55
PB4Y Liberator x 19
B-24J Liberator x 132
B-29 Superfortress x 33


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 203

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 15
P-40N Warhawk x 13
B-25J Mitchell x 39


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 25

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 7
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 9


No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 41


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 28

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 75
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 63


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 84
Port supply hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 5th Base Force, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 16
P-38J Lightning x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 30
Kittyhawk III x 22
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 25
P-40N Warhawk x 53
P-38J Lightning x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
60 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 13

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 6
F6F Hellcat x 11
Corsair IV x 2
F6F-5N Hellcat x 5
TBM Avenger x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 10 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 3

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 4 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Timor Garrison Battalion, at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 27
Ki-49 Helen x 10

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed



Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 11
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 9

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 22
F6F Hellcat x 42
Corsair IV x 7
F6F-5N Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 4 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 9 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 16
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25
Ki-30 Ann x 19

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 22
F6F Hellcat x 37
Corsair IV x 7
F6F-5N Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 8 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 23 destroyed
Ki-30 Ann: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,70


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 17


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Netsuda Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Balikpapan at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 2
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 18

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Anbo Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 6
F6F Hellcat x 9
Corsair IV x 2
SB2C Helldiver x 28
F6F-5N Hellcat x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Minto Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Nihonkai Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Nichiryu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ryugi Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Macassar at 30,69


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 5


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Hakkaisan Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 9
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4
Ki-30 Ann x 13

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 20
F6F Hellcat x 33
Corsair IV x 5
F6F-5N Hellcat x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-30 Ann: 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 45,74

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 19

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 damaged


Allied Ships
AK George H. Williams, Shell hits 8


Allied ground losses:
101 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 822

Defending force 31252 troops, 216 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 590


Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2366 troops, 30 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 168

Defending force 5959 troops, 62 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 108


Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 787
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/2/2006 8:02:14 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I dont like the way his naval bombers are penetrating the CAP also my AA ammo is getting low.

I may have to abandon my cripples my Carriers need searoom to fight effectively it was a mistake to bring my fleet carriers in to try and support my landing force.

2 New Essex class arrived with a Sqn of F4U1D FB's on board.

So thats 40 Hellcats and 36 Corsairs per Carrier !!!

Andy

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/16/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Makale , at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 20

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x J1N1-S Irving bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 38,51

Japanese Ships
PG Tamo Maru #7
PC Kanju

Allied Ships
SS Steelhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Makale, 32,67, firing at TF 63
TF 63 troops unloading over beach at Makale, 32,67


37 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese ground losses:
93 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 212
N1K1-J George x 26
J2M Jack x 32
D4Y Judy x 84
B6N Jill x 101
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 40

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 23
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 306

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 52
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 6
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 2
P-38J Lightning x 24
F-5A Lightning x 2
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 12 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 2 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
F-5C Lightning: 1 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 32


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
H6K2-L Mavis: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 9
B-24J Liberator x 74


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 76
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 19
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6
P-38J Lightning x 33
F-5C Lightning x 6
A-20G Havoc x 58
PB4Y Liberator x 20
B-24J Liberator x 117
B-29 Superfortress x 27


Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 274

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 14
P-40N Warhawk x 11
B-25J Mitchell x 33


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
23 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 47

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 3


No Allied losses

Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 40


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 30

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 13


No Allied losses

Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
SB2C Helldiver x 49
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 66


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 64

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 36
Kittyhawk III x 22
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 25
P-40N Warhawk x 53
P-38J Lightning x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
70 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 24

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Balikpapan , at 31,64

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 1
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 7

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Amboina , at 39,73


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 27


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 6


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 50
D4Y Judy x 13
G4M1 Betty x 3
G4M2 Betty x 10
P1Y Frances x 6
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 22

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 19
F6F Hellcat x 34
Corsair IV x 5
F6F-5N Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 43 destroyed
D4Y Judy: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 5 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 18 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 4 destroyed, 3 damaged
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Anzio
CVE Sangamon
CL Adelaide

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 823

Defending force 31314 troops, 223 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 591


Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2331 troops, 29 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 213

Defending force 6256 troops, 63 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 125


Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 788
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/2/2006 8:04:55 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK I am pulling out abandoning Long Island and another CVE its to dangerous I need sea room to fight.

He has to many bases close around !!!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/17/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 37,61

Japanese Ships
TK Akatsuki Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
MSW Shanan Maru #16
MSW Hinode Maru #20
MSW W.13

Allied Ships
SS Shark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wasile , at 41,69

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 27

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 162
D4Y Judy x 7
B6N Jill x 30
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 45
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 111

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 164

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tomini , at 34,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 35
Ki-21 Sally x 109
Ki-49 Helen x 27

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 1
P-40N Warhawk x 18
P-47D Thunderbolt x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 9 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 10 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed
P-40N Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
P-47D Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 23
Port supply hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Makale , at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 2
Ki-21 Sally x 16

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Spitfire VIII x 12
P-38J Lightning x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 13 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 3 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 16
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 5
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 15
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 2
P-38J Lightning x 12
F-5A Lightning x 2
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 4 destroyed, 9 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 2 destroyed
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Mosquito PR.IX: 1 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 25


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
H6K2-L Mavis: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 10
B-24J Liberator x 71


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 83
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 13
P-40N Warhawk x 2
B-25J Mitchell x 33


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 35

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 36


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 47

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 14


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported

Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 69
P-38J Lightning x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 69


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 86

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 9
F6F Hellcat x 23
Corsair IV x 3
F6F-5N Hellcat x 10
TBM Avenger x 21


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67


Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 10


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 23

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 3rd NZ/C Division, at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 39

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Spitfire VIII x 12
P-38J Lightning x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 8 destroyed, 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged
Spitfire VIII: 4 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 7 damaged


Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tomini at 34,65


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 1
F6F Hellcat x 2
TBM Avenger x 6


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Hamanami

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 3
F6F Hellcat x 3
Corsair IV x 1
SB2C Helldiver x 27
TBM Avenger x 8


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Aso Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Anrugu Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kunimitsu Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Macassar at 30,69


Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 7
F6F Hellcat x 9
Corsair IV x 2
SB2C Helldiver x 15
F6F-5N Hellcat x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Nichiryu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Ryugi Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Minto Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 3
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 14
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 5
F6F Hellcat x 6
Corsair IV x 1
TBM Avenger x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Kunimitsu Maru, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 1
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
F6F-5N Hellcat x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Pomala at 32,69

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 48
G4M2 Betty x 17
P1Y Frances x 28
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 21

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 17
F6F Hellcat x 24
Corsair IV x 5
F6F-5N Hellcat x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 25 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P1Y Frances: 2 destroyed, 13 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 9 destroyed
F6F Hellcat: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 5 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon
CVE Long Island, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Anzio
CVE Corregidor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Tromp

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Tomini at 34,65

Japanese Ships
DD Hamanami, Shell hits 4

Allied Ships
PT PT-526, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
PT PT-527, Shell hits 27, and is sunk
PT PT-529, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 823

Defending force 31287 troops, 225 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 592


Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1990 troops, 23 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 279

Defending force 6199 troops, 63 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 122


Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 789
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 12:26:45 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		As I am sure you are all aware there is a bit of a debate going on I am going to post the whole chain here for your consideration I know PZBhas posted it in his AAR.

In my view I have done nothing wrong except possibly the LCT's going by sea which I hjave apologised for.

PZB's Initial Email

"For 3-4 days I've been trying to get Kendari to launch a coordinated strike against your carriers of Makale.
On size 6 airfield with 300 air support, Air HQ and plenty of supplies there have been max 270 ac. 140 fighters and some 120 bombers, all with high morale and good leaders.

Not ONCE have they managed to launch a sizeable strike. 80% of all attacking ac have been cut down in a 1-10 kill ratio.

It's so frustrating to work so hard to train units and prepare missions only to see your carriers sail in and out of a tiny arm almost unmolested. Attaching a picture of one of the Zeke Daitais after todays single mission. Took 2-3 months to train and one day to destroy for absolutely no results.

Makale, a tiny size 1 airfield and malaria pit is now reported to field 120 ac and 17k troops that have been airlifted and barged in.
This ia an isolated base far away from your nearest secure forward base.
The game is really enjoyable, but the shoestring operations into Sulawesi just annoys me.

I know you got a lot of ground to cover, and you play an excellent game!
Still, I get so annoyed by the combination of suicide tactics that the Allies would never have conducted and game mechanics that allow you to get away with it >:o

I did invade and capture India, and the game allowed me to - so I guess it's an eye for an eye. But please don't let the game turn into a madman slaughter house because it's possible to make it so. When I put my cursor over Kwajalein I'm told that there are 857 enemy vessels in the size 5 port :-\

I you got any issues with my game play, please let me know. I have and will try to play a somewhat realistic game, both in regards to doctrine, deployment and realism. Japan was reckless in its use of men and material, and I try to simulate this by defending most places to the end.

Had to rant a bit, annoyance past enjoyability for too many turns.... :-X"

My 1st Response

"OK a couple of things.

Kendari not launching is a bad thing but not much I can do about it.

Re my carriers you have achieved your objective I had to abandon 2 CVE's to get my Carriers out of the way it was just getting too dangerous my ships needed sea room. (I was sufficiently worried to LRCAP with P38's)

Re the Sulawesi ops I am going to have to think about this one you may have a point I did over reach with insufficient force so to some extent I am trying to fix it. (its pretty much the first time since Kavieng that I have done so)

I would point out that 50% of the troops arrived in a convoy escorted by 3 Fleet and 5 Escort Carriers so I don’t view that as extreme and I am probably going to lose 3 of the 5 CVE's and I provided an appropriate level of support.

And as for fighters at the base most of them are inoperational I have fewer than 50 active aircraft there and always have had so I am less worried (also some are orphans from the carriers)

Re Airlifting in Troops one of the reason Wasile has been so quiet as a bombing base is because I moved most of them out to allow me to base 150 C47's there. As this is a direct mirror to Noemfoor, Kavieng, Sarmi, Nanlea and every other base that you airlifted troops in massive efforts to (and at least I had air superiority over the base in question and wasn’t losing massive numbers of transports every day) then I am not going to get excited about it. I know Nomad did it 1st as the allies but to be fair it’s a tactic you have used against me many times and its one of the reasons I am trying to keep a minimum of 30 operational fighters at both the advanced bases.

Re Kwaj yes you have a point and it’s a fair one but its not a frontline base it’s a staging area and most of the ships have arrived over the last two weeks or so (I am sure you can guess why ;))) ). Now I could have just kept them as TF's and out of the port but for convenience I disbanded them so yes it’s a fair critcism but as long as the game has the loading routines it has I am going to take appropriate logistical steps to ensure things load in the right way.

The Allies would possible have just kept them at sea but for me it is purely a matter of logistical convenience"


MY 2nd Response

"OK I have thought about it a little more.

I am not and have never complained about India I took the game on on the assumption that it was never going to reopen. So I dont class that as gamey. (I think Wobb may have had a reasonable argument on that one but thats not my argument and your game was incredibly early so no one knew what was and wasnt possible !!!)

Looking back over the last 14 turns I would concede that I probably allowed the mission to get to me a little more than I should have. The range was probably to far to operate barges and I perhaps should not have sent them in with troiops and supplies even when convoyed with AK's for a fuel supply.

For that I will apologise.

I struggle to see anything else that I have done is wrong.

Re overstacking if you overstack you pay the price on ports with loading times on AF's with number of sorties and organisation.

This is a major issue for me as I AM going to technically overstack as the bases I am taking will never expand beyond a pre set SPS which allows an arbitrary 50 AC per level.

This is to me nonsense both sides can operate a LOT more AC from bases if they put the aviation support into it but they pay a price to do so that is the way the game is designed IMO rightly. If thats not what was intended they would have hardcapped it at 50x although that would not work for the allies in 44 or I suspect for the Japanese in 42.

I am not going to limit myself to operating 50 AC per level cant do it sorry its not possible for the allies in 44 or 45 to operate that way. I will try not to be obscene about it but it is going to happen and 104 single and twin engined fighters with 58 operational from a lvl 1 AF is not to me extreme.

If this is going to be an issue we need to talk more about it.

To be honest the most extreme overstacking was yours on Morotoi and I thought it was a good move not anything to complain about"


PZB's no 2 email
"As I consider it, Weda was a daring success by you. It provided a forward base that would isolate Northern PNG together with Kai Island. This was a 'Market Garden'
operation that succeeded.

On the other hand, Tomini and Makale have to be supplied by air from Namlea, a forward base that doesn't have secure supply lines to the closest Allied base at Sarmi or Darwin. This can only be achieved by using extreme tactics and makes me fear what the game can turn into over the next year or so.

I never liked massive air lift operations - unfortunately the game allows it on a scale that's not realistic.
After Ken's massive use of them, I wanted to return the favor, and did so in the bases you mentioned, but no more than a couple of thousand troops were lifted in. Jap transports are small and fragile. The Allies got hundreds of C47s that can be used for this purpose, and tiny size 1 airfields shouldn't be able to receive more than 50 transports pr day.
If there's already 50 ac at the base, there would be no room for transports ;-)

Guess you see what I'm getting at. I think this is starting to get out of hand and I wish to address it because it annoys me.
Must admit I had hoped you would loose all your carriers and pay the price for the the extravagant moves in Sulawesi.
Unfortunately this didn't prove possible. So how on earth will I be able to hurt you when you bring in the kitchen sink in a well planned and supported invasion? :'(

Usually I don't care about lots of ships in rear area bases - it just illustrates the point. WitP requires a lot of player discipline in 44-45 as units and equippment become available in enormous quantities.

I didn't especially appreciate how land combat worked in India, same with China.
So both land combat in China, as well as night bombing by non-specialized ac have been outlawed to make the game more enjoyable What I wish now is a discussion on on the use of other strategies that are unrealistic. I'll be happy to impose restrictions on the Jap side based on your suggestions :-)"

My 3rd Email

"Well I am pretty Sure it was 15,000 plus at Noemfoor but we wont go into that !!!

The allies did have better air supply abilities than the Japanese Um Wasile is supplying those bases and has 100k+ of supplies stockpiled (it was part of the original plan)

I did lose 2 (possibly 3) birdfarsm out of 8 so this wasn’t cost free

I will agree to stop using Barges that far of range but deep penetration attacks by Airborne troops and exploitation is what they were there for.

I mean I have a full Division coming pretty much the first real Airborne force the allies get and I have lots of daring raid that I was going to use them for.

Are we saying I cannot ?

Had you capped either base or say had it been Kendari I would understand a complaint but I hit very lightly (or undefended) bases then tried to dig in to hold them before you could redeploy.

I am going to have to think about this one as I genuinely don’t think I have done anything wrong or gamey (except possibly for sending barges that far after their milch cow AK was sunk)"

PZB's no 3 email

"Not trying to distribute blame or anything. Been lots of operations from both sides that were highly dubious in character in the past to say the least.

I would imply a max number of ac to ca 100 pr airfield size. 50 operational wise. This could apply up to size 5 or 6. Above that and for rear bases more could be 'stocked'. Both Menando and Noemfoor held size 5 airfields as far as I can remember. It's the shoestring type operation to dirt strip bases that I question.

Of course you may use para divisions and deep strikes - but keep in mind that the US were very vulnerable to high casualties (public wise).

I've posted our discussion in the AAR. It's very difficult to bring up potential house rule issues without incriminating oneself. What has been done in the past vs what can be done now and in the future. If game balance dies completely the game will die as well. So it's pretty much up to you to decide how far to stretch things. I will only bring up issues when I feel I have to. Guess the Sulawesi operation was one.

At least it looks like I'm going to be able to extricate my Strike Force from the Pacific :-)"

My 4th Email

"I am happy to review this and can agree to no more than 100X total and 50x operatinal for lvl 1 and 2 AF's and a hard cap for 3 - 5 of 100X (excl floatplanes) but for 3 -5 its impossible to guarantee it wont be 60, 70 or even 80 operational it depends on the mission and opposition so its impossible to agree to a restrction as its to circumstancial.

I am going to post it on my AAR and guage reaction because I genuinely dont feel I have done anything wrong.

With hindsight I should probably have complained after earleir air bridges where you were suffereing enormous casualties day after day your reinforcements, but I just came up with a way to deal with it...keep the recieving AF shut at all times a task that the Allies are better at than the IJA because of superior heavy bombers, in the NG campaign was what made me not even stop and think about massing Dakotas for this operation."



(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 790
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:00:12 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK Back to the war. Nasty scare when 15 Betties get through my carrier cap fortuantely the AA held them off.

I have flown out an extra Hellcat Gp to replenish them with. Lots of AK's that were acting as Milch cows have been sank I suspect this was a little premature

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/18/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Makale, 32,67, firing at TF 12
TF 12 troops unloading over beach at Makale, 32,67


35 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AG AG-121, Shell hits 12,  on fire,  heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
131 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Wasile , at 41,69

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-S Irving x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-S Irving: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 160
D4Y Judy x 26
B6N Jill x 29
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 72
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 109

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 192

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 131
J2M Jack x 128
D4Y Judy x 46
B6N Jill x 45
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 252

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 32
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 2
Ki-45 KAIb Nick x 14
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 3
P-38J Lightning x 40
F-5A Lightning x 3
F-5C Lightning x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 15 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 4 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 3 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 57

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 20
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 1

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 18

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sorong , at 42,74


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 28


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 10
B-25J Mitchell x 35


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 7


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 7
P-40N Warhawk x 7
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 38


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 49
Port supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 2
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 9
P-38J Lightning x 15
F-5C Lightning x 6
A-20G Havoc x 56
PB4Y Liberator x 22
B-24J Liberator x 111
B-29 Superfortress x 25


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported

Airbase hits 16
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 317

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 14
P-40N Warhawk x 11
B-25J Mitchell x 33


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 3
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 14


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 22

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 24


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 2
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 12


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
SB2C Helldiver x 67
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 60


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 101
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 36
Kittyhawk III x 22
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 27
P-40N Warhawk x 50
P-38J Lightning x 8


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 21
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 60
Beaufort V-IX x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 20
PB4Y Liberator x 7
B-24J Liberator x 41


Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
261 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 24

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Sarmi at 48,78

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged


Allied Ships
DD Cushing

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,71

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
LCI LCI-527
LCI LCI-535, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 13
P1Y Frances x 8
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 25
F6F Hellcat x 39
Corsair IV x 9
F6F-5N Hellcat x 13
P-38J Lightning x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 13 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 47
G4M2 Betty x 17
P1Y Frances x 9

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 25
F6F Hellcat x 32
Corsair IV x 9
F6F-5N Hellcat x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 41 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 5 destroyed, 7 damaged
P1Y Frances: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
F6F-5N Hellcat: 2 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 5 destroyed
P-38J Lightning: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Formidable
CV Hornet
CV Wasp
CA Canberra

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Makale at 32,67

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 15
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 18

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 7
P-38J Lightning x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 18 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Corregidor,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-148
LCT LCT-354
LCT LCT-166
LCT LCT-167, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-328

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,76

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 18

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 12
F6F Hellcat x 32
Corsair IV x 8
F6F-5N Hellcat x 12
P-38J Lightning x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 17 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 5 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 1 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-141
LCT LCT-149, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-353, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-356

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pomala

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 313 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 107

Defending force 260 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4945 troops, 41 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 281

Defending force 6516 troops, 66 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 141


Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 821

Defending force 30931 troops, 211 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 586


Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 791
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:03:58 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Spotted his raiding Carriers looks like they have seperated I will try to catch them but I want to withdraw carriers back to Pearl.
 
I am starting to load up for Thunderchild. I will go into TF organisation in a few posts when I have sorted it out
 
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/19/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 154
D4Y Judy x 49
B6N Jill x 45
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 39
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 108

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 212

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 275
N1K1-J George x 27
J2M Jack x 90
D4Y Judy x 122
B6N Jill x 121
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 72

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
41 casualties reported

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 423

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 2
P-38J Lightning x 11
F-5A Lightning x 1
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 2 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 7
B-24J Liberator x 8


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 9
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 9


No Allied losses

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 70
P-38J Lightning x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 63


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 79
Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 5th Base Force, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 40
Beaufort V-IX x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 14
PB4Y Liberator x 4
B-24J Liberator x 24


Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 1 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 30
Kittyhawk III x 24
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 22
P-40N Warhawk x 51
P-38J Lightning x 12


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 8
Beaufort V-IX x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 3
B-24J Liberator x 10


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-323, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Elna, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
LCT LCT-178
AK John Evans

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 104,45


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 23
SB2C Helldiver x 56
TBM Avenger x 17


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AO Sunosaki, Bomb hits 7,  on fire,  heavy damage
PC Kunashiri, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4601 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 282

Defending force 6557 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 143


Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 822

Defending force 30848 troops, 212 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 584


Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 792
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 2:20:32 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think you have done anything wrong from what I see. I have little sympathy when a Japanese player has used "game mechanics" to achieve certain objectives that did not happen IRL. The basing of only a certain amount of planes on a base may be realistic through '43, but afterwards may not...
Using of paratroopers restricted due to "public sensativity" is just sour grapes.   You should be able to use them as you see fit and supply them by C-47's if possible. If this feels "gamey," then he should try to stop the supply effort by whatever means are possible. This a is a game that "TRIES" to simulate the war and does a good job IMO (but does have some flaws).
I feel it is unjust to have him saying certain things continuing to happen will have him deciding to continue or not. This game and the 2 AAR's are blazing a trail that others will follow and adjust accordingly.
Currently, I am playing solely as the Allies. Mainly, because I have yet to take the time out to figure out the Jap production system. I hope you two can work out the differences and continue as this game is probably the most important one to date.


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Post #: 793
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 2:52:33 AM   
marovici

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/12/2005
From: NYC
Status: offline 		Just to give my vote of support.

I have been following the whole line of this AAR from wobbly on and I don't see anything wrong in what you have done. Certain game mechanics are beyond your control and my feeling is usually players on Japanese side have lots of advantages in the beginning of the game and once the tide turns they start thinking about restrictions. This comment is not addressed to PzB, but just overall.

I personally would prefer if the game was able to model the history as close as possible, but we have what we have and within the reason if accomodations can be done to get it closer to reality that much better, nevertheless that should have been discussed in the beginning between Wobbly and PzB.

Anyhow this and PzB's AAR are the most interesting to me on this forum so keep up the good work and I hope not too many over extended invasions .

It is a pleasure to see one AAR this deep and that is thanks to PzB, Wobbly, David, Nomad and you. I am sure PzB and you will find a way to continue this AAR despite occasional difference of perspective of things.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 794
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 10:32:10 AM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		Hi Andy,

I think PzB is mainly expressing frustration in having his aircraft shot down in droves more than anything. As far as the Sulawesi operation goes, I don't see anything wrong with it personally. Along with chances comes risks and you took the chance and are experiencing some of the effects of risk taking. In another PBEM I have going, my opponent conducted an operation similar to yours only at Pomala. We had some terrific sea and air battles but he eventually forced me to give it up because the attrition had become to great for my production to keep up with. Good move by him, totally isolated Kendari and Macassar and threatened Balikpapan in one operation. I saw nothing wrong with the op itself. It was his next month that upset me.

As far as airfield and port overstacking goes, that's a different animal. My personal opinion is that airfield overstacking should never be allowed except when transitory aircraft groups are passing through. I have refused to overstack airfields in every game I have played.

My opponent followed up his grab of Pomala by basing over 500 heavies and 300+ fighters on Pomala, a level 3 airfield! He had done this earlier at Koepang also. I haven't pressed the issue since Koepang because we don't have a house rule addressing overstacking and he is unwilling to add to what few we have. Because of this I may have to give up that game. He hasn't had to risk his carriers or any other major fleet units in nearly 5 months (current date 12/42) when I sank 2 of his and lost 1 in return. He simply marches under an umbrella of bombers with a strong escort (100+) of P-38s. Frustrating to say the least. Especially as the penalties for overstacking do nothing to hinder the player if he puts enough aircraft there.

So I understand PzB's frustration as applied to airfield overstacking.

I'm a little less strict when it comes to port overstacking by disbanded ships. I do try to stay within stacking limits for loading though. Not always successful but the intent is there!

Chez

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VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 795
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 11:29:41 AM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		First of all, thank you for this great AAR! Reading the newest updates of this epic struggle between PzB and you is very entertaining and contains invaluable information for rookies like me. The steadiness with which you two update your AAR (PzB: 87 pages! This thread: 27 pages! ) is amazing and highly appreciated!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

As far as airfield and port overstacking goes, that's a different animal. My personal opinion is that airfield overstacking should never be allowed except when transitory aircraft groups are passing through. I have refused to overstack airfields in every game I have played.



I'm about to start my first PBEM (Allies, CHS) and have a (self-imposed) house rule in mind: Airfield stacking limited to 50x airfield level +15 % (this is the same stacking that applies to CV's). Andy, is such a restriction feasible in 1944/45? What about limiting the number of aircraft to the number of aviation support (including AV above 250)? I would be very interested to learn something about the lack (or abundance) of AV support in your game.

ChezDaJez, did your games advance into 1944/45?

PS: In no way I want to imply that such a house rule should be enforced in this game. Just asking for my own PBEM.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 796
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 11:34:24 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I have never posted on this AAR, but I have posted quite often on PZB's before.. On the SUlawesi operation, it is really the classic UberCap problem of games without the Nikmod, but I can understand his frustration because this was such a great chance for him, I mean you took a massive risk and he had all green lights for this operation, and yet he didn't manage much while loosing the top end of the IJNAF in the fight... If someone had the patience to do so it would be interesting to try to emulate that operation with Nikmod... It would probably have been bloodier... I personnally thing you did nothing wrong in terms of use of the game engine in this operation, it is just that this game engine is too much of a VAE VICTIS thing.

Regarding overstacking, it is a game breaker for me. You didn't have a house rule about it when you started, so I think you haven't done anything wrong, but now that PZB brings the subject up, I think it is fair.. AF size should be either hardcoded or overstacking should come with horrendous penalty, like when you have lots of planes in a base with way insufficient support and no HQ --> lots of damaged acs and very low morale... The AF size is the one thing that could and should slow down operations in this game... The whole point in this game is to get good big AFs from which you can put harm on your ennemy, lvl 1 AF is a ****ty dirt track where you can base a fighter unit and a recon unit basically, with a high rate of damaging planes... Imagine the whole northern New Guinea and Celebes operation with strict overstacking limits or horrendous penalties ( I think for example that some damaged planes should be lost and considered ops losses when on overstacked AFs : You cannot maintain acs in a bad airstrip with hardly any repair facility ), it would have gone way slower... Which is the point of the game... This is why you fight so hard to get a good big AF : if you can base hundreds of fighters and transports from an lvl 2-3 af it ruins the game really...

And of course it is hard on you to bring this subject up now because you weren't there at the beginning of the game... but this hard limit would put a dent on jap overstacking at the beginning of the game, no more putting 150 zeros and 150 bettys at Kendari , or Kuching, because it would be inefficient and too expensive in term of airframe...

regarding port overstacking, I think it is a less serious issue... All I would do is let all ships that are above the limit get sys damage as if they were at sea ( slow increase to emulate the fact that 600 ships in a lvl 6 port can't be taken care of properly... ) I guess level 10 ports should be exempted of any sort of a limit.

Just my two centS.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 797
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 12:22:05 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK Guys thanks for the input.

I guess I disagree with most of you ;)

OK my perspective on this issue is as follow.

Port Overstacking I am not to excited about it I guess I could have shifted everything back to Pearl but its just a reaction to the loading routines in the game.

Re Overstacking AF's I dont agree as the Allies in 44/45 if you dont overstack you cannot project force ergo its impossible to proceed or at least a lot slower. (p.s. for those that say the game goes to fast remember despite being 3 months ahead of schedule at start I am now right back on history Marianas in June 44 - the allies really really did move fast in 44 !!!)

IRL the allies were able to take multiple bases but in game the Japanese will always defend in more depth and through release of engineers form restricted commands have lvl 9 forts in places that are crazy stopping the allies securing the bases they need.

i.e. I am expecting 2 Divisons per base minimum on the Marianas or at least double the historical defenders

Also lets not forget the 600 - 800 fighters that PZB had waiting for me at a level 5 AF...it was part of a short term trap that almost worked and was good play IMO.

Had I been basing 4E bombers out of a lvl 1 or 2 AF or even 2 E Mitchells I could have perhaps agreed but I wasn't it was all fighters and fighter bombers. Exactly the kind of close air support that the allies have to use and did use IRL

I am penalised for overstacking by lack or co ordination, higher ops losses and lower readinsess/sortie rates this IMO is sufficient but why if I have 50 damaged fighters at an airfield should I be stopped from bringing in 48 fresh ones to operate ok a few of the damaged may repair but at max I had 108 fighters at those lvl 1 AF's with 58 operational that is not extreme in my view.

I try not to be to extreme in overstacking but everyone needs to recognise it will happen as the allies it is just not possible in 44/45 not to do it.

Part of the problem is the arbitrary SPS limits in game which naturally favour those AF's that were actually built. Because both sides know the history they defend those bases forcing the allies to go elsewhere. This is fine but the hexes are 60 miles i.e. in a 60 mile hexs on an island the side of Sulawesi or NG I am limited to 200 AC on a lvl 4 AF maybe on an atoll but on an island of that size that is crazy but because no one actually went there and solved the engineering to build a bigger AF the allies are penalised for it.

If the game was able to better model pilot transfers to replace fatigued pilots etc etc perhaps it wouldnt be such an issue but it is

The rule I am trying to work to at present is no more than 100x HardCap in all fields and no more than 50 +/-10 operational out of lvl 1 and 2 AF's

No 4E at all out of less than a lvl 4

No Superfort Ops out of less than a lvl 5 (The raids earlier were I admit a mistake 1 was an error the 2nde well the cat was out of the bag so I went for it - no excuse)

But I say again overstacking is inevitable and I refuse to tie my hands even more than I already am.

p.s. I exclude float planes from all calcs re overstacking

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 798
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 12:38:31 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi Andy,

Just a quick 2p also.

I agree on the over stacking thing. As Allies in 44 (even in late 43 where I am now) you either over stack or you cannot historically use air assets that were used. I do think there should be some sort of limit though. For example 300 planes on a level 1 airfield is too much etc.

I think both sides will play 'a-historically' at some points. The game mechanics do work well in a lot of areas but there are some where they fall through despite people applying historical methods. For example, para drops. They did happen historically so there is no reason not to use para drops (as long as IMO it's not a 5 squad lets see what's here recon jump). The problem is that the opposing player cannot reliable intercept them.

< Message edited by Speedy -- 7/3/2006 12:41:33 PM >

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Post #: 799
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 12:49:49 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well thinking about it more, I think the overstacking shouldn't be hard coded, but its cost should be increased signifincantly ---> ops losses ( planes that are lost because cannot be repaired in the base ), more damaged planes, bad morale... The coordination issue isn't enough... I agree the allies should be able to overstack for a given operation, but they should have to pause and breathe more often..

Again, just my two cents.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 800
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 12:55:43 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		All those discussions about overstacking are really wondering me! When people see all those pictures of how those real airfields looked like that are level 3, 4 or 5 how can they even argue that 200 4E bombers can be placed there? I know Guam is also only a size 7 airfield but perhaps that´s the only problem, the sizes given by the developers!

To all those people that are placing 1000 ac on a size 5 airfield, just look at the real pictures. It´s not a question of using them, there´s just not enough space to put them there....

And yes, if the sizes would be realistic then the overstacking should be hardcoded. But that goes also for LCUs, ships,..... never ending story.

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 801
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:01:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		There is a very easy answer to massive overstacking like that Castor simply remove the aviation support hard cap at 250 and make 4E COST 2 - 3 X More per frame in aviation support do that and all sides will need to plan more before concentrating

p.s. on this note B29's repair very very slowly much more so than other 4E. Thats just a personal observation so far but I think its right

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 802
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:04:36 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

There is a very easy answer to massive overstacking like that Castor simply remove the aviation support hard cap at 250 and make 4E COST 2 - 3 X More per frame in aviation support do that and all sides will need to plan more before concentrating

p.s. on this note B29's repair very very slowly much more so than other 4E. Thats just a personal observation so far but I think its right



That would be a great idea also, but with the nearly unlimited number of BF the Allied side has it would be the same result. 700 - 1000 ac on a size 5 airfield. I don´t know what size the real airfields in England in WW2 would have in the game but how many ac were based at the biggest airport in England in real life?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 803
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:07:02 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi Castor,

Some airfields in England held 3-4 BG's IRL. That would roughly be 72 planes per BG: 72 x 4 = 288 planes.

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Post #: 804
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:07:42 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Veiji I find the ops losses and damged ac quite effective in restricting overstacking.

I find it a waste of time to go much more than 1.75X in most AF's and even at that my bombers/FB's only fly c 50% of the sorties max.

BUT my CAP is still strong and 50% of my pilots rest every other turn allowing sustained campaigns with minimal micro managing - which is important having to stand down 50% of sqns and rotate sqns in and out of places like Sarmi which is bombing Noemfoor every day would be a real pain.

Basically my sortie rate is never much more than 50x AF side and is often significanlty less except for CAP.

I suspect that CAP is the real issue CAP appears to be unaffected by overstacking in the way that bombers and strike aircraft are. Fix that and I think the penalties are bang on the money for overstacking.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 805
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:10:31 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi Castor,

Some airfields in England held 3-4 BG's IRL. That would roughly be 72 planes per BG: 72 x 4 = 288 planes.



Thanks Speedy! That are even fewer than I thought! That makes the numbers we use in the game even more laughable when we have strikes of hundreds of planes (I don´t even want to think about hundreds of 4E bombers) from small airstripes out of the jungle in malaria zones with the real bad conditions for planes.

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 806
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:15:46 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Keep in mind though Castor that there were 10's and 10's of airfields in use. In my opinion this is not to say that the airfield could NOT handle more planes. I believe they could. I just believe they went for efficiency and rather than maxing an airfield they distributed groups more evenly to allow better comfort and war operation for all involved.

Regards,

Steven

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Post #: 807
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:17:44 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Also to bear in mind this is heavies we're talking about on the VIIIth airfields. I think the overall problem some people are postulating here is absolute numbers of planes from airfields. Sure there is the issue of heavies form a small airfield size (which is a problem since some airfields should be phyiscally incapable of launching heavies).

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Post #: 808
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:20:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Yup 300 4E is a lot but I am not talking about 300 4E or even 2E its mostly FB's F's recons etc etc.

And just how many of those 300 4E fields would be in 1 60 mile hex in East Anglia probably the whole 8th AF could fit into one WITP hex

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 809
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:23:48 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Now if speedy would hurry up and help Hard Sarge in getting BTR out I would be able to answer my own question

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 810
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