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RE: Operation Minotaur

 
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RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 1:28:07 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline
Patience young Padawan....patience

P.S. The answer in short is a LOT of 4E could be held in a 60 mile hex in East Anglia. It would put an end to this discussion if this was the basis to go on

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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 811
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 2:40:58 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline
greetings, first of all i want to say that i never looked this AAR but since a great discussion started i jumped in to see what other side thinks

NOTE: i didn't read anything except discussion and i'm not familiar with future plans. That means i will continue to contribute in PzB AAR.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Re Overstacking AF's I dont agree as the Allies in 44/45 if you dont overstack you cannot project force ergo its impossible to proceed or at least a lot slower. (p.s. for those that say the game goes to fast remember despite being 3 months ahead of schedule at start I am now right back on history Marianas in June 44 - the allies really really did move fast in 44 !!!)


Sorry, this agrument doesn't holds the water. You are judging from the game where only Americans and Aussies are alive, so you shouldn't use argument "Allies really really did move fast in 44". Next, if you dont overstack you can not project force ergo. Look at the picture which i've attached. Lots of bases in northern NG which can be expanded to support 1600 planes without overstacking. I didn't include Wasile which can be built to lvl 6 AF (300 more planes). It isn't your fault that you accept the challenge and took over the lost game, and it isn't fault that both of you didn't have overstacking limit. So, nothing wrong here except you are exploiting (don't jump on me:) pathetic overstacking limit trying to achive historical schedule....

I know that you don't have a time but, does it mean that Japan done better than historical, Allies are allowed to use exploit just to catch the train to Tokyo? Instead of capturing all important bases in NG, then expanding them (what would be done in RL) you've decided to catch the train.... As you may be aware, i'm not talking only about your game, i'm concerned that this is a habit of majority allied player.... What makes overstacking great exploit? - fatigue level will be always al low level and 7-days strike per week becomes something normal...





quote:


IRL the allies were able to take multiple bases but in game the Japanese will always defend in more depth and through release of engineers form restricted commands have lvl 9 forts in places that are crazy stopping the allies securing the bases they need.

i.e. I am expecting 2 Divisons per base minimum on the Marianas or at least double the historical defenders


Oh, just read it carefully - so you are going for Marians. I will keep my mouths shut up:).

Of course they will defend in more depth and build a forts to the maximum level! We Japan players know from where the danger is coming... same goes for Allies and their Sir Robin defence (nothing wrong with that, but even noticing that Japanese would be able to dig in better than historical, makes a smile on my face:)

quote:


I am penalised for overstacking by lack or co ordination, higher ops losses and lower readinsess/sortie rates this IMO is sufficient but why if I have 50 damaged fighters at an airfield should I be stopped from bringing in 48 fresh ones to operate ok a few of the damaged may repair but at max I had 108 fighters at those lvl 1 AF's with 58 operational that is not extreme in my view.



This is where we don't agree. I stand at my attitude - penalties are pathetic. And, you can solve problems with damaged fighters - load them into AK and you will free capacity. Of course, you don't like loosing ships (and planes) in the open sea, but that's another issue:)...

quote:


I try not to be to extreme in overstacking but everyone needs to recognise it will happen as the allies it is just not possible in 44/45 not to do it.
Part of the problem is the arbitrary SPS limits in game which naturally favour those AF's that were actually built. Because both sides know the history they defend those bases forcing the allies to go elsewhere. This is fine but the hexes are 60 miles i.e. in a 60 mile hexs on an island the side of Sulawesi or NG I am limited to 200 AC on a lvl 4 AF maybe on an atoll but on an island of that size that is crazy but because no one actually went there and solved the engineering to build a bigger AF the allies are penalised for it.


The game have bigger issues i think. Like early Allied advance into Burma and to the SRA from the Australia (i have seen both in late 1942). So i would say, the game allows both sides enough freedom....

I think that you wouldn't take offense, but this is how i see things. The problem is, when Jap players see that what and how Allies can do to japan players they will just respond with brutal force in their next game (and i'm sure that they will be able to find historical justification of their moves). I'm just want to be able to delay Allies and play late period game, but it seems that is not a possible, so why bother with that?

As Amiral Laurent mentioned, the same engine which allowes some un-orthodox moves/tactics to Allies latter in the game is responsible for attacking India, PH (and China) from Japanese player at the start of the game. So, honestly, there is nothing wrong with your moves, but don't think i will restrain myself and trying to be "historical" guy in my future games....



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by pauk -- 7/3/2006 2:44:29 PM >


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Post #: 812
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 4:44:42 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

greetings, first of all i want to say that i never looked this AAR but since a great discussion started i jumped in to see what other side thinks

NOTE: i didn't read anything except discussion and i'm not familiar with future plans. That means i will continue to contribute in PzB AAR.

Nice to see you dont worry I dont expect you will leak anything anyway and its always nice to get a new reader

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Re Overstacking AF's I dont agree as the Allies in 44/45 if you dont overstack you cannot project force ergo its impossible to proceed or at least a lot slower. (p.s. for those that say the game goes to fast remember despite being 3 months ahead of schedule at start I am now right back on history Marianas in June 44 - the allies really really did move fast in 44 !!!)


Sorry, this agrument doesn't holds the water. You are judging from the game where only Americans and Aussies are alive, so you shouldn't use argument "Allies really really did move fast in 44". Next, if you dont overstack you can not project force ergo. Look at the picture which i've attached. Lots of bases in northern NG which can be expanded to support 1600 planes without overstacking. I didn't include Wasile which can be built to lvl 6 AF (300 more planes). It isn't your fault that you accept the challenge and took over the lost game, and it isn't fault that both of you didn't have overstacking limit. So, nothing wrong here except you are exploiting (don't jump on me:) pathetic overstacking limit trying to achive historical schedule....

I know that you don't have a time but, does it mean that Japan done better than historical, Allies are allowed to use exploit just to catch the train to Tokyo? Instead of capturing all important bases in NG, then expanding them (what would be done in RL) you've decided to catch the train.... As you may be aware, i'm not talking only about your game, i'm concerned that this is a habit of majority allied player.... What makes overstacking great exploit? - fatigue level will be always al low level and 7-days strike per week becomes something normal...

OK for a start I do not view this as an exploit. Catergorically no argument never going to agree on this one. If I choose to take the penalty for using to many aircraft on a base so be it. So whats wrong with having more aircrew on a base than I fly ops with thats what standard rotation is for. Hell if I could get away with it I would double th enumber of aircrew in each sqn

And um what I am doing is exactly what MacArthur did bypassing the defended spots where I can so I refute the argument that I should just go ahead and take all the bases I would NEVER agree to a houserule of 50xAF level in any game/b]





quote:


IRL the allies were able to take multiple bases but in game the Japanese will always defend in more depth and through release of engineers form restricted commands have lvl 9 forts in places that are crazy stopping the allies securing the bases they need.

i.e. I am expecting 2 Divisons per base minimum on the Marianas or at least double the historical defenders
Oh, just read it carefully - so you are going for Marians. I will keep my mouths shut up:).

Of course they will defend in more depth and build a forts to the maximum level! We Japan players know from where the danger is coming... same goes for Allies and their Sir Robin defence (nothing wrong with that, but even noticing that Japanese would be able to dig in better than historical, makes a smile on my face:)



aye thats fine so I face 10 - 30k troops in every potential base all with lvl 9 forts and PZB flies in 15k reinforcements through my CAP losing 20+ transports a day sorry I dont have the time or patience to assault every defended base


quote:


I am penalised for overstacking by lack or co ordination, higher ops losses and lower readinsess/sortie rates this IMO is sufficient but why if I have 50 damaged fighters at an airfield should I be stopped from bringing in 48 fresh ones to operate ok a few of the damaged may repair but at max I had 108 fighters at those lvl 1 AF's with 58 operational that is not extreme in my view.



This is where we don't agree. I stand at my attitude - penalties are pathetic. And, you can solve problems with damaged fighters - load them into AK and you will free capacity. Of course, you don't like loosing ships (and planes) in the open sea, but that's another issue:)...

Yup we are 100% opposite on this one if I only have 58 aircraft that are actually operational I am never going to agree to a hard cap. Unless the developers make it a hard cap I refuse to abide by this as I find it wrong. That AF lauched 58 sorties the fact there are another 50 aircraft in various states of damage is neither here no there I launched 58 sorties from that AF in that turn
quote:


I try not to be to extreme in overstacking but everyone needs to recognise it will happen as the allies it is just not possible in 44/45 not to do it.
Part of the problem is the arbitrary SPS limits in game which naturally favour those AF's that were actually built. Because both sides know the history they defend those bases forcing the allies to go elsewhere. This is fine but the hexes are 60 miles i.e. in a 60 mile hexs on an island the side of Sulawesi or NG I am limited to 200 AC on a lvl 4 AF maybe on an atoll but on an island of that size that is crazy but because no one actually went there and solved the engineering to build a bigger AF the allies are penalised for it.


The game have bigger issues i think. Like early Allied advance into Burma and to the SRA from the Australia (i have seen both in late 1942). So i would say, the game allows both sides enough freedom....

I think that you wouldn't take offense, but this is how i see things. The problem is, when Jap players see that what and how Allies can do to japan players they will just respond with brutal force in their next game (and i'm sure that they will be able to find historical justification of their moves). I'm just want to be able to delay Allies and play late period game, but it seems that is not a possible, so why bother with that?

As Amiral Laurent mentioned, the same engine which allowes some un-orthodox moves/tactics to Allies latter in the game is responsible for attacking India, PH (and China) from Japanese player at the start of the game. So, honestly, there is nothing wrong with your moves, but don't think i will restrain myself and trying to be "historical" guy in my future games....

thats fine you need to play as you see fit I dont agree house rules on this issue and I definitely dont view it as an exploit we obviously disagree



< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 7/3/2006 4:46:28 PM >

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 813
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 4:55:16 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
I really need to figure out how to use quotes and bold better

Although I said I never agree to houserules on this I do actually try to operate with some restraint. i.e. 4E bombers from to low an AF or 1,000's of AC at one base.

There is one base that I almost alway totally abuse unmercifully which shall remain nameless but it is a transport hub.....

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 814
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 4:58:23 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Just to repeat these are the rules I am holding myself to at present

no more than 100x HardCap in all fields (incl damaged)
no more than 50 +/-10 operational out of lvl 1 and 2 AF's (damaged are classed as non operational)
No 4E at all out of less than a lvl 4
No Superfort Ops out of less than a lvl 5

Thats as far as I am willing to go.

I really do wish they would remove the 250 av support hard cap I think that would beef up the penalties in ways that some posters would prefer

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 815
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 5:55:26 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I really need to figure out how to use quotes and bold better


Agreed

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Post #: 816
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 7:17:15 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline
It's only by great games like this, going so far into uncharted territory (in game mechanics terms), that problems will be found and lessons learned.
Now, when necessary, the rest of us can set some reasonable house rules to suit the playing style of the two players involved.

Stacking limits have been totally overlooked in WITP - PERIOD.



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Post #: 817
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/3/2006 8:21:01 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline
quote:

I suspect that CAP is the real issue CAP appears to be unaffected by overstacking in the way that bombers and strike aircraft are. Fix that and I think the penalties are bang on the money for overstacking.


I think you are right on the CAP issue. I've seen CAP of over 200 fighters on a level 2 field which is ridiculous. A player has little control over the number of aircraft that will defend on CAP. So any fighters based there have a chance of taking off. Even stood down squadrons contribute to CAP. Its quite frustrating to have no chance to penetrate CAP especially when you consider that for at least the early war years, the majority of attacking bombers who were shot down had already delivered their bombs. Their should always be a chance for at least a small percentage of attackers to penetrate regardless of how big or how modern the CAP is.

Sea-based CAP is different and is limited by the number of aircraft based on the carriers. Land-based CAP should be limited by the size of the airfield and the number of support squads available..

When you look at the SPS values, most airfields are reasonably modeled as far as potential growth. Most can be built up to a decent sized base. But to say that a level 4 or 5 airfield can't project power is incorrect. The majority of airfields that the allies expanded were only to this size. The point is that bases such as the USAAF base at Saipan were the exception, not the rule.

The way I look at it is that a level 7 airfield is a huge base IRL. Compare that with a modern day airport such as Heathrow or LAX. You'ld be hardpressed to park 350 aircraft, let alone service, repair and launch them on combat missions. Now I know those are civilian airfields and not designed for military operations but still, how many military airfields around the world are capable of operating that many aircraft? And I think it is a good idea to use the # of engines instead of airframes when considering overstacking limits.

Personally I would love to see airfield stacking hardcoded. My view is that an airfield contains a finite space for aircraft and should be able to hold only so many aircraft. I look at like looking at a bucket. Its only going to hold so much water and thats it. There are many issues in the game that need to be rethought but unfortunately I don't ever expected to see any significant changes to the model.

I appreciate that you do try to keep things real as much as possible. Many players see nothing wrong with stacking 1000 aircraft on a level 5 airfield and that is where my real rub comes in. So long is overstacking is not taken to extreme I can handle it.

Chez



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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 818
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/4/2006 6:39:12 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
OK back to the war loading begins for my next great offensive and I have to admit I am a little nervous this is the 1st time I will have hit a major Japanese base without total air superiority I have no idea what will happen

Andy

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/20/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Noemfoor at 45,76

Japanese Ships
AG AG-122
AG AG-365
AG AG-369
AG AG-5138, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
AG AG-5140
AG AG-5142, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
AG AG-2059, Shell hits 6,  on fire,  heavy damage
AG AG-2061
AG AG-2526, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
AG AG-2531

Allied Ships
DD Mahan
DD Cummings
DD Shaw
DD Cushing
DD Cassin
DD Downes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 42
D4Y Judy x 17
B6N Jill x 16
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 18
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 32

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
7 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
5 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
5 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
5 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
7 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
6 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
2 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 331
N1K1-J George x 26
J2M Jack x 115
D4Y Judy x 140
B6N Jill x 135
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 61

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Airbase hits 30
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 244

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
36 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
37 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
40 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
8 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
38 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
34 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
23 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
17 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
13 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
16 x B6N Jill bombing at 9000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
22 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
18 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
20 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
19 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
17 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
18 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
17 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
19 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
30 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
20 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
20 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
13 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
12 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
16 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
6 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
7 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1
P-38J Lightning x 9
F-5A Lightning x 1
F-5C Lightning x 2
PB4Y Liberator x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 3 damaged

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
P1Y Frances: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 9
B-24J Liberator x 13


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
17 casualties reported

Runway hits 24

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6
P-38J Lightning x 18
F-5C Lightning x 6
A-20G Havoc x 52
PB4Y Liberator x 21
B-24J Liberator x 110
B-29 Superfortress x 26


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 282

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
15 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
10 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
25 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
9 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
2 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 9
P-40N Warhawk x 12
B-25J Mitchell x 15


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 7
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 14


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 17

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 65
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 49


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 32
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
13 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
11 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
23 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
11 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
5 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
2 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 33
Kittyhawk III x 24
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 26
P-40N Warhawk x 47
P-38J Lightning x 7


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Kittyhawk III bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
11 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
47 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
15 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
18 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 52
Beaufort V-IX x 11
B-25J Mitchell x 20
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 36


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
130 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
8 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
10 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
10 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
15 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
5 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 36th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 32,67


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
2 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 23

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
23 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 44,77


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-122, Shell hits 4
AG AG-2061, Shell hits 16, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-148
LCT LCT-364, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 13


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 15000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4629 troops, 37 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 290

Defending force 6513 troops, 68 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 139


Japanese ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 824

Defending force 30632 troops, 212 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 582


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 819
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/4/2006 6:41:34 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
My Carriers are going in while the transports load I will cover my TF organisation in the next few turns and force distribution etc.

This is not going to be a quick fight so lets get ready !!!!

8th Army and V Amphib Corps are Spearhead closely followed by 3 US Corps.

This is going to be the fight of the war ......

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/21/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 41
D4Y Judy x 3
B6N Jill x 11
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 24
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 29

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 41

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
9 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
6 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sorong , at 42,74


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 3


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 8
B-25J Mitchell x 23


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 10


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 10
B-24J Liberator x 19


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 39

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
15 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 4
P-40N Warhawk x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 11
B-24J Liberator x 39


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 29
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wotje , at 82,79


Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 5
P-38J Lightning x 17
PB4Y Liberator x 21
B-24J Liberator x 37


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 105

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Ponape , at 71,79


Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 15
F-5C Lightning x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 25
B-24J Liberator x 48


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 106

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
18 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
10 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Liberator VI bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 3
Spitfire VIII x 3
A-20G Havoc x 15


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
3 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81


Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 27


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
12 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 2
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 21


No Allied losses

Runway hits 29

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 18
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 42
Beaufort V-IX x 9
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 16
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 30


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
91 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
10 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
10 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
15 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
13 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
2 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Amphibious/B Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 5
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 12
Beaufort V-IX x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 3
B-24J Liberator x 20


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
81 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
5 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 46,76


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-5140, Shell hits 4
AG AG-122, Shell hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-154, Bomb hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-356, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-328, Bomb hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-156
LCT LCT-355, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCT LCT-361
LCT LCT-166, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 46,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
D4Y Judy x 20
B6N Jill x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Empire Rowan, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
AK Empire Pibroch
AK Mabella, Bomb hits 3,  on fire
AK Cape Isabel, Bomb hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Cape Stevens
AK Needwood, Torpedo hits 3,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCVP 544F
AK Julia L. Dumont, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCM 544E, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Shinkuang, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire


Allied ground losses:
488 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
LCI LCI-524
LCI LCI-532, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 46,75

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
D4Y Judy x 17
B6N Jill x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N Jill: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Needwood,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Idaho, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
AK Cape Isabel, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
AK Mabella,  on fire
DD Crane
LCVP 544F, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
LCM 544C
AK B. Livingston, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
133 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B6N Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4630 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 292

Defending force 6513 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 138


Japanese ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 823

Defending force 30383 troops, 207 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 581



(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 820
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/4/2006 8:35:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
CVE didnt make it but I never really expected it to



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/22/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Noemfoor, at 45,76 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

51 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Allied Ships
DD Mahan
DD Cassin
DD Cummings, Shell hits 1
DD Shaw, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Downes, Shell hits 1
DD Cushing
DD Norman
BB Idaho, Shell hits 4

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 106
D4Y Judy x 22
B6N Jill x 63
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 67
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 66

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
39 casualties reported

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 87

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
27 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
34 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
22 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
27 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
22 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
14 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 130
J2M Jack x 79
D4Y Judy x 66
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 19
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 81

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
26 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
32 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
40 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
41 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
39 x J2M Jack bombing at 2000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
19 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
21 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 2
P-38J Lightning x 15
F-5A Lightning x 2
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Morotai , at 43,68


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 4


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 10
B-24J Liberator x 20


Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 22

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
11 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x A-20G Havoc bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 57

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 13000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 70
P-38J Lightning x 13
B-25J Mitchell x 53


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 41
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
22 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
12 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
11 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
20 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
5 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
6 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M5 Zeke x 22

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 3
B-24J Liberator x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F-5C Lightning: 1 destroyed
PB4Y Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 13
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 34
Beaufort V-IX x 6
B-25J Mitchell x 10
B-24J Liberator x 18


Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 damaged
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
7 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
6 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
6 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
10 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
13 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
B6N Jill x 24

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
43 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B6N Jill bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Amphibious/A Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 4
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 15
Beaufort V-IX x 4
B-25J Mitchell x 9
B-24J Liberator x 10


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
3 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
4 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 8000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Biak at 46,77


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-5140, Shell hits 8, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,74

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
CVE Corregidor, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-144
LCT LCT-141, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 4000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 29


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
64 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 12
SB2C Helldiver x 109

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
155 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 43

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
25 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
27 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
27 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 35930 troops, 315 guns, 85 vehicles, Assault Value = 822

Defending force 30210 troops, 201 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 576

Allied max assault: 1594 - adjusted assault: 793

Japanese max defense: 403 - adjusted defense: 1405

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 8)


Japanese ground losses:
262 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Allied ground losses:
1436 casualties reported
Guns lost 48
Vehicles lost 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4626 troops, 36 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 293

Defending force 6518 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 138


Japanese ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 821
OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 8:54:21 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
OK as threatened part 1 of my blow by blow disater to come called the Battle of Tinian !!!!

Phase 1 Loading.

For the last 4 days I have been loading troops uning the routines in the game I have now assempbled my TF's and will outline the TF organisation

1st my Invasion TF's

I have 5 Invasion TF easch composed around a Battleship

Eash one has an escort of the following ships to which transports are added

1 x BB
1 x CA (alternate command ship)
8 x MSW
8 x DE
4 x DD
3 x LCI (G)

TF Colorado (Flagship USS Colorado Vice Admiral Brown - CIC Operation Thunderchild)
Alternate command ship USS Minneapolis

V Amphib Force (Rear Admiral Turner Beach Commander on Mount McKinlay commanding V Amphib Force)
1st USMC Div
6th US Div

(All loaded on LST's with 2 LSD's and 2 LSV plus about 5 AK with supply)

TF California (Flagship USS California Rear Admiral Draemal)
Alternate Command Ship USS Astoria
3rd Corps HQ
7th US Div
40th US Div

(7th US Div is loaded on LST's, 40th US on small AP's, 3 Corps on APD's and several small AK's)

TF North Carolina (Flagship USS North Carolina Rear Admiral Hill)
Alternate Command Ship USS Chicago
8th Army (Eichelberger)
1 Brigade of 24th US Div
5th Aus Tank Regt

(Some loaded on LCT's and AP's Armour on AK's this is primary supply convoy with 20+ AK's of supply)

TF Maryland (Flagship USS Maryland, Rear Admiral Mailhot)
Alternate command ship USS Salt Lake City
33rd US Div
37th US Div
3 Arty Regts
5 Armoured Bns

(Armour and Arty on AK's, US Divs on AP's but mostly medium sized ones and last of LST's and a few LCM's)

TF Washington (Flagship USS Washington, Rear Admiral Childers)
Alternate Command Ship USS Chester
24th US Div (2 Bdes)
19th Combat Engineer Regt
V Amphib Corps
2 Armoured Bns
Several Seabee Bns
131st Aviation Regt

(Mostly AK's and LCT's support is on AK's, some Ap's with 24th US Div)

Total 150,000 men and 300 Tanks and over 500 arty tubes plus 300,000 tonnes of supply

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 822
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 9:01:54 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Part 2

Light TF's

4 x ASW TF's of 8 DD's (At least one RN DD per TF)
4 x Surface Combat TF's of 1 x CL and 7 DD's (All Fletcher class DD's)
1 x Other TF of 25 mixed SC's, PG's and PC's for escorting cripples back to Entiwock
1 x Other TF of 25 mixed SC's, PG's and PC's based at Entiwock for ASW operations

Escort/Replenishment TF's

2 x CVE TF's of 6 x CVE, 10x DD, 8 x DE
2 x Replenishment TF's of 2 x CVE, 3-4 x CVR, 1 AE, 4 x AO, 1 x CL, 3 x DD, 6 x DE.

Bombardment TF

TF 1 USS Massechusets, USS New Jersey, 6 x DD, 3 x DMS
TF 2 USS South Dakota, USS Iowa, 6 x DD, 3 x DMS
TF 3 USS Alabama/, FFR Richelieu, 6 x DD, 3 x DMS

Any questions ?

I will cover carriers when they get back for the little raid I have sent them on !!!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 823
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 9:22:03 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
In total 730+ ships including 11 BB's, 10 CA's or CL's, 16 CVE's, 7 CVR's, 130+ DD's, 70+DE's not to mention the carrier TF's and replacement ships enroute to Kwaj for the next wave .....

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 824
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 10:00:09 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
OK Carriers last review

At Sea operating around the Marianas in 3 TF's under Halsey, Mitchser and Spruance

6 CV's, 7 CVL's, 6 CA's, 6 CLAA's, 8 CL's, 23 DD's

At Sea on way to Kwaj

2 CV's, 5 CVE's, 7 DD's,

At Sea Heading to Pearl for Refit

2 CV's, 1 CVL, 1 CA, 5 CL's

Total 23 Carriers,  26 Cruiser, 30 Destroyers.

I plan to rotate my carriers back to Entiwok to re arm and will aim to keep 3 Full TF's on station at all times with no less than 6 fleet Carriers to back up the CVE's.


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 825
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 10:23:41 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
OK last but not least in my review of forces the replenishment TF's

On Board the replenishment TF's

I Have 324 Hellcats, 54 FM-2's, 168 TBM's and 168 Helldivers

The only pool I am concerned about is the Helldiver one as I expect my Divebombers to suffer badly from Flak when covering the invasion.

I also will have 1 x  F4U1-D Sqn and 2 x Hellcat sqns rested and waiting to emergancy hot deck if required.

My 2 latest Essex Class have arrived with a Sqn of F4U1D's raising the fighter / FB strength to 72 per carrier a timely arrival as I will need the CAS those FB's will provide and the boost to my CAP aint bad either.

Unfortunately I dont have a replenishment gp for F4U - 1D's so they are slightly more fragile than my other types.

p.s. not to all the allied players .....DO NOT use CVR's for combat in 42 early 43 I would gladly trade 6 CVE's at this point for more of these wonderfull ships you do not get that many of them and unfortunatly they arrive early so the temptation is to use them for other purposes ....DONT you need them in 43/44/44.





(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 826
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 10:37:43 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
I will have to add this info to my steadily growing document on "WitP Helps & Strategies" for "when" I ever get to this point in a game.
You will need to rotate those CV TF's to keep them fresh as I don't think this will be a "Turkey Shoot." 
More like trench warfare.


_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 827
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/4/2006 11:55:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Well I scatterend my AC TF's keeping away from HI and sank a few transports today

PZB says they were all empty after unloading 170k supplies !!!!

I am trying to fixate attention on Pagan at moment a little deception plan

I have spotted another convoy to the North East and the Bonins are gettign packed with A/C so I am skirting the islands and trying to chase down thaty convoy before heading for home.

TF's will set sail for destiny tomorrow.

p.s. NY59giants dont bookmark it until its proven to actually work !!!!

Aye 3 TF's on station one at Pearl replenishing and 1 at Entiwock re arming that the plan.

I took major risks at Wasile when I took my carriers in close this is a risk I CANNOT take on this operation PZB has 3 major weapons at his disposal to cause me grief and two minor weapon.

1. Ground Force and Forts to tie me down this is not going to be a short fight.
2. Surface Combat TF's ....his BB's are still intact and will need to be dealt with by keeping my carriers between HI and Marianas enough to stop a 10 hex suicide run in to the invasion beach.
3. Massed airpower my carriers will need to stop it.

These are the major weapons

4. KB hitting my LOC and cripples
5. Subs on lmy LOC hitting cripples

These are the minor weapons.

He can still cause a lot of grief if he decides this is th eline in the sand.

Now he may not he may wait for Kamikazes to activate and use these weapons att he Bonins or Okinawa I dont know

Andy

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/23/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 311
N1K1-J George x 27
J2M Jack x 121
D4Y Judy x 145
B6N Jill x 61
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 68

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 540

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 2
P-38J Lightning x 13
F-5A Lightning x 2
F-5C Lightning x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 20

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Morotai , at 43,68


Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 6


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 3
P-47D Thunderbolt x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 32


No Allied losses

Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Biak , at 46,77


Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 9
B-24J Liberator x 17


Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 24

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Noemfoor , at 45,76


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 8
P-40N Warhawk x 9
PB4Y Liberator x 10
B-24J Liberator x 34


No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 31

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 48

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hansa , at 53,83


Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 25


No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 8
SB2C Helldiver x 66
P-38J Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 63


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 94

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Naval Guard Unit, at 60,84


Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 36
Kittyhawk III x 24
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 22
P-40N Warhawk x 54
P-38J Lightning x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 45,76


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 48
Beaufort V-IX x 10
P-38J Lightning x 2
B-25J Mitchell x 18
B-24J Liberator x 30


Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 70,55


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 28
SB2C Helldiver x 50
TBM Avenger x 17


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Italy Maru, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Menado Maru
AK Horaizan Maru, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Biak at 46,77


Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-365, Shell hits 16, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Iwo Jima at 63,53

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 3
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 25

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 27
SB2C Helldiver x 44
TBM Avenger x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C Helldiver: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Shuko Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AP Rakuyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Nichibi Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tenran Maru, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW W.30, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW W.9, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tenryu Maru, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tenzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Taganoura Maru

Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,59


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 28


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Juyo Maru, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,57


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 25
TBM Avenger x 33


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Gozan Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Narita Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Taikei Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Kenan Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Elna
LCT LCT-164, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-180, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,57


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 14


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
MSW Wa 103
AK Reikai Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,57


Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 28
SB2C Helldiver x 17
TBM Avenger x 21


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Oita Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Shinfuku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Reikai Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
MSW Wa 103, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Jinju Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 62,55


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 15


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Buenos Aires Maru
MSW W.27
AP Africa Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,58


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 15


Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Yasushima Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 62,55


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 22


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Ayaha Maru, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
AP Bokuyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Arabia Maru, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 57,55


Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 28


Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
PC Amakusa
PC PC-20, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PC Fukue, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PC Sado

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,57


Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 17


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Taikei Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Narita Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AK Gozan Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Makale

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4659 troops, 39 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 295

Defending force 6535 troops, 64 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 140


Japanese ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Noemfoor

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1435 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 496

Defending force 29785 troops, 190 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 561


Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 828
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/5/2006 12:28:03 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
p.s. I have sent three massive Wolfpacks into operation

1.  25 subs are now operating in a picket line in the south china sea.
2. A second of c 15 subs is operating off of Okinawa
3 The last is moving into position north of the Marianas and will consist of another 25 subs including RN and Dutch Boats.

In addition as part of the admin for this I have over 200 ships in supporting roles

AR's, AD's, AS's and AGP's at Entiwock and Kwaj
Upgraded PT Boats Sqns covering Entiwock and Kwaj
Tankers bringing fuel to Entiwock
Sub chasing flotillas at Pearl, Majuro, Tarawa, Entiwock and Kwaj.
Spare MSW's I am keeping for the next operation

etc etc

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 829
RE: OPERATION THUNDERCHILD - 7/5/2006 2:39:29 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
I was just reading through your last combat report and thinking about using your subs for early warning pickets and then you mentioned it in your last post. 
I feel that he knows you are coming, but I wonder if he can truly stop you, except via weather or die rolls. 


_____________________________


(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 830
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 7:50:12 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

It's only by great games like this, going so far into uncharted territory (in game mechanics terms), that problems will be found and lessons learned.
Now, when necessary, the rest of us can set some reasonable house rules to suit the playing style of the two players involved.

Stacking limits have been totally overlooked in WITP - PERIOD.




Not exactly. The designers were warned repeatedly.


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to saj42)
Post #: 831
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 12:14:48 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
PZB has got me a little paranoid intel is indicating 100k plus on Tinian lvl 9 forts probably massive minefields and CD guns (PZB says he has some 240mm CD guns on one of the islands !!!! I dont knwo which one though)

I will admit I am a little spooked.

As a result I am amending the plan.

While my TF's finish loading supplies I am detaching the Bombardment TF's and my Reserve MSW Gp.

It is my intention to immediately redeploy all 6 BB's of the Bombardment TF's into a single force with all 9 DMS's and the 10 BAthhurst Class MSW's of the reserve group.

This TF will proceed with one of the 2 replenishment TF's immediately to the Marianas operational area.

The Bombardment TF will then spend 3 days bombarding Tinian before withdrawing to the AE at Entiwock to rearm and reorganise back into 3 Bombardment Sqns.

All four carrier TF's currently at sea will move to the vicinity of Tinian and commence round the clock strikes on the port and ground units.

The B29's out Kwaj will concentrate on keeping the AF shut.

My intention is to spend at least a week softening up Tinian before my transports get near.

My assumption is that the 14 - 18 CVE's escorting the invasion fleet will be sufficient to keep KB at bay.

I am recutting the plan in this way because I am nervous and despite the desire for surprise on the specific objective I think a week - 10 days of softening up is more valuable.

Andy 

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 832
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 1:53:06 PM   
Bliztk


Posts: 779
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Electronic City
Status: offline
A bit of advice. Stay two or three weeks flattening the place.

Until you have disembarked with your land units you have not commited anything.

Each point of disruption and fatigue that you get on his units is going to be crucial for the success (or time refitting after) of the conquest of Tinian


And be sure of clearing all of the mines. Beware of fast surface combat missions trying to kill your MSW after the CDs are knocked out

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 833
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 3:39:22 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
So this is what I have to look forward to in 12 months of game time? Holy cr@p! Maybe it was better if I didn't know...

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Bliztk)
Post #: 834
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 4:52:56 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
I will see how the suppression goes before deciding to commit.

Simon watch this space...........

OK with all the debates going on over land combat I thought I would outline my estimate of what I face and the uphill struggle to come...

I estimate PZB will have c 1,000 AV on Tinian in plentiful supply with good leaders

So 1,000 AV
lvl 9 Forts x 3
Command HQ x 0.9
Corps HQ x 0.1
Combat Supply x 1 (or x 2 if nemo is correct and I am wrong)

So before any other modifiers i.e. disruption, fatigue, leaders, preperation etc etc I am facing c 4,000 adjusted AV at maximum.

I am bringing to the party

7 Divisions plus about 6 Armoured Regts so 7 x 390 + 6 x 50 so about 3,050 AV plus the command and corps HQ's total max AV of 6,100 assuming full supply.

Not enough for 2:1 even at best.

I expect my units to take a real beating on landing so my AV will be 50% - 80% lower or c 1500 - 2000 after landing.

PZB will be bombed and attacked but I really dont expect to do much until my Heavy Arty comes into play (I am bringing 3 seperate 155mm Arty Units plus a Corps level Arty unit along)

My objective is via air, sea and arty bombardments to increase fatigue and disruption to the extent that I can take the base.

This means round the clock air and port bombardment by Superforts to kill support squads and engineers

Ground Attacks by F4U's (100%) and F6F's (30%CAS/ 20% Escort/ 50% CAP), FM2's (30%CAS/ 20% Escort/ 50% CAP)
TBM's on port, ground or air attack depending on circumstances
Helldivers I am unsure if the benefit of using Dive bombers on ground support is going to justify the cost I may leave them on naval search naval attack just in case

NGS from my 3 Heavy TF's and after landing the other 5 BB's if they are in a fit state will join in as well.

Overall a hell of a party

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 835
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 5:41:55 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline
Keep in mind that in May 1944, an IJA Rifle Squad as an AntiSoft-value of 23 and an AntiArmor-value of 17, while your USA Rifle Squads have 32/55 (Marines are even better: 44/55).

Those differences are not incorporated into the AV, which simply sums-up the number of infantry squads and attack vehicles (device types 22 and 23). So your actual combat strength is higher than it seems - although no one can say exactly how much higher.


< Message edited by VSWG -- 7/5/2006 6:10:33 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 836
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 6:28:13 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
True True my squads are better equipped my armour is better and I hope my Arty is better...

But its still going to be a long grinding fight.

One of the reasons for choosing Tinian over Saipan is I do not want to tangle with the x3 defensive multiple on top of lvl 9 forts for assaulting a mountainous Island without complete Land Based Ground Support.

This is going to be tough !!!

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 837
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 7:41:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
Actually high command has a cunning plan given the success of the 'drop the beer kegs in the wrong place' tactic at Kwajalein and the ferocity of the Australian Tankers response to losing their ale.

1. 2 Aus Tank Regts will be in the forefront of the attack.
2. On day 2 of the assault a 8 x 500kg's of Beer will be dropped by a Superfortress with pinpoint accuracy over Tinian AF.
3. The Australian Tankers and US Marines will be told about the beer at the same time AND told that the other knows about it.
4. Everyone else gets out of the way......

This is the super secret tactic to win the Battle of Tinian in 2 days 

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 838
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 7:54:23 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline
OK I would like a few opinions.

I am extremely nervous about operations in the Marianas and have more or less decided to stop the Minotaur attacks until I know how it goes.

OK well and good.

I have 3 Fleet Carriers (1 RN - the lucky and unsinkable HMS Formidable) in SWPAC.

Their job was to keep up the pressure but I have more or less shut that offensive down following the losses to my escort carriers.

I am very tempted to transfer them to the CENTPAC front which would give me 6 Carrier TF's guaranteeing a decent Night CAP and allowing me to ensure I always have 1 active carrier TF at Pearl to cope with raiders.

So 3 on station
1 in transit
1 in refit
1 active at Pearl

I think I would feel safer with the extra coverage in case a carrier takes battle damage as I expect thsi fight to take a long while
Any thoughts ?

Stay in SWPAC or bring em over for a max effort ?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 839
RE: Operation Minotaur - 7/5/2006 8:19:42 PM   
Przemcio231


Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline
Well i think better to stick them all thogheter...

Any way from what im reading you expect heavy resistance on Marianas so why to push your units to fight on his rules?? try something more unexpected like landing on the North Luzon , Formosa and Okinawa and let those japs on Marianas starve to death... and this will give you another advantage no Recources and Fuel deliverys to Japan enymore... Remeber he can't be strong Everywhere i know this is a dearing strategy but its worth it

_____________________________



Pinky: Hey Brain what are we goeing to do this evening?
Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 840
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