RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!!

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RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 1:14:36 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

Do you feel a raging hate towards this trainingscamps?

Good!, level them, but don�t forget there are different types of targets, too:
-ports (where are PzBs damaged ships? He should have some of them now)
-cities (manpower, HI)
-other airfields
-Taskforces
-
-
-
-

I hope you understand:
It doesn�t make too much sense to risk the war to please your rage!

_____________________________

If you like what I said love me,if you dislike what I say ignore me!

"Extra Bavaria non est vita! Et sic est vita non est ita!"

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1501

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 3:43:39 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Do you feel a raging hate towards this trainingscamps?

Good!, level them, but don�t forget there are different types of targets, too:
-ports (where are PzBs damaged ships? He should have some of them now)
-cities (manpower, HI)
-other airfields
-Taskforces
-
-
-
-

I hope you understand:
It doesn�t make too much sense to risk the war to please your rage!

Oh it is a one off raid I will not be able to campaign against his Chinese AF's as he will put CAP on them after I raid once.

At present he is not CAPing his trainign bases in china <evil laugh>

A one off raid where I send 96 B29's at each of his 4 main training AF's 192 from Georgetown and 192 from Khota Bahru....

I FRY 4 bases after that I guarantee he will have CAP on those fields which will a cost him in lost pilots as his ops losses go up with pilots landing on damaged fields so he loses part of a crop of pilots and 2 stops him training as quickly as he needs to have some fighters on CAP.!!!!

Basically I will perform 3 days raids on China - this operation is known as OPERATION KINDERGARDEN

DAY 1 hit all 4 bases with 96 B29's each
DAY 2 hit 2 bases with as many operational bombers as I can get in the air.
DAY 3 hit one base with everything left.

DAY 4 hit Saigon with everything that will fly
DAY 5 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 6 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 7 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 8 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies

Withdraw all B29's as they cost to much in supply terms except one Group that will remain for night strat bombing campaign against industry in SEA and night air mining

Andy

(in reply to frank1970)

Post #: 1502

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 3:53:39 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

It is a part of my faith in game

I wont ban gd attack training in houserules but it is my No1 absolute hate point as I think it breaks the already fragile air model. BUT It is un policable I mean I use FB's and F's on Ground Attack but only when I have an objective and the sole purpose is not to train pilots how do you tell the idfference what is reasonable use to one person is not to another.

I am already walking a fine line in this game where I have dismounted several CVR Gps and I am using them to escort and sweep enemy bases in Malaya. It is an active theatre so I dont feel I am abusing the system they are there because I need fighters but in reality I could use P47's or F4U's for the same purpose I am choosing to use two Hellcat Wings because as a by product they will gain some combat experience so to a some extent I am being sanctimonious and hypocrytical because I AM de Facto training those pilots when I could use USAAF aircraft for the same mission.

Its one of those things you need to live with in game

I WILL do everything in my power to stop it ask Pauk I have tried to intercept his training in China several times to the extent that he is now having to base large numbers of bombers in theatre keeping Chengtu and Chungking AF's shut if he doesnt he KNOWS I will bring in 300 Fighters and stop him cold.

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1503

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 3:59:55 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.s. PZB is a truly great player and he is very honourable please dont take my rantings on this subject for anything disrespectfull to my opponent(s) he and Pauk for that matter have not stopped it in part because I HAVE NEVER asked them to I am sure PZB would argue it is the only way to deal with the far to bloody A2A model and equally I am sure that he is equally pissed off by the effectiveness of Heavies in Gd Attack (allied players you think 4E do well in anti naval well let me tell you massed 4E on Ground Attack the ONLY way to go as I hope to demontrate at Singapore in the near future !!!!

)

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1504

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 4:13:15 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

At pressent I have a lot of unit fragments scattered at Noemfoor/Wasile/South Borneo and various bases in the SRA

One of my objectives for the next few weeks is to reconcentrate these units - my tail has gotten a little ragged at present and I am taking steps to deal with it.

7th US Div currently at Darwin will be moving south to Townsville where it will move to CENTPAC.
3rd USMC and 11th Airborne are at Wasile - 3rd USMC will move to CENTPAC and 11th Airborne to Malaya as I think the paras will be more use attacking North Borneo and possible if I retake Ceylon for a nasty little variant that might - just might get me Karachi or Bombay !!!!
With the fall of Lautern I will now try to pick off one of the islands between Timor and Java

Forces are loading at Darwin BF's, Inf and ABDA Corps HQ they will transfer to Malaya I want to keep PZB looking at Malaya as my jumping off point so I will continue to build it up to keep him focussed on my LEFT all the time my RIGHT gets ready for the sucker punch !!!!

Andy

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1505

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 4:18:52 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

No no cunning plans

Must we understand you don't call this...

quote:

Oh it is a one off raid I will not be able to campaign against his Chinese AF's as he will put CAP on them after I raid once.

At present he is not CAPing his trainign bases in china <evil laugh>

A one off raid where I send 96 B29's at each of his 4 main training AF's 192 from Georgetown and 192 from Khota Bahru....

I FRY 4 bases after that I guarantee he will have CAP on those fields which will a cost him in lost pilots as his ops losses go up with pilots landing on damaged fields so he loses part of a crop of pilots and 2 stops him training as quickly as he needs to have some fighters on CAP.!!!!

Basically I will perform 3 days raids on China - this operation is known as OPERATION KINDERGARDEN

DAY 1 hit all 4 bases with 96 B29's each
DAY 2 hit 2 bases with as many operational bombers as I can get in the air.
DAY 3 hit one base with everything left.

DAY 4 hit Saigon with everything that will fly
DAY 5 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 6 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 7 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 8 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies

Withdraw all B29's as they cost to much in supply terms except one Group that will remain for night strat bombing campaign against industry in SEA and night air mining

... "cunning"...?
Well i don't want to stick around when you'll get cunning for real

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1506

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 4:54:15 PM

marovici

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/12/2005
From: NYC
Status: offline

[/quote]

Oh it is a one off raid I will not be able to campaign against his Chinese AF's as he will put CAP on them after I raid once.

At present he is not CAPing his trainign bases in china <evil laugh>

A one off raid where I send 96 B29's at each of his 4 main training AF's 192 from Georgetown and 192 from Khota Bahru....

I FRY 4 bases after that I guarantee he will have CAP on those fields which will a cost him in lost pilots as his ops losses go up with pilots landing on damaged fields so he loses part of a crop of pilots and 2 stops him training as quickly as he needs to have some fighters on CAP.!!!!

Basically I will perform 3 days raids on China - this operation is known as OPERATION KINDERGARDEN

DAY 1 hit all 4 bases with 96 B29's each
DAY 2 hit 2 bases with as many operational bombers as I can get in the air.
DAY 3 hit one base with everything left.

DAY 4 hit Saigon with everything that will fly
DAY 5 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 6 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 7 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 8 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies

Withdraw all B29's as they cost to much in supply terms except one Group that will remain for night strat bombing campaign against industry in SEA and night air mining

Andy
[/quote]

Sounds good. Can't wait to see it.

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1507

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 5:11:50 PM

ChezDaJez

Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline

quote:

I am already walking a fine line in this game where I have dismounted several CVR Gps and I am using them to escort and sweep enemy bases in Malaya. It is an active theatre so I dont feel I am abusing the system they are there because I need fighters but in reality I could use P47's or F4U's for the same purpose I am choosing to use two Hellcat Wings because as a by product they will gain some combat experience so to a some extent I am being sanctimonious and hypocrytical because I AM de Facto training those pilots when I could use USAAF aircraft for the same mission.

I admire your stance on not using gd atk for the sole purpose of training pilots. And I don't think that you are being sanctimonious at all when using Hellcats on ground attack or from land bases. You are using them in support of operations which is a totally different objective. Unfortunately, the Japanese player must train pilots in some manner.

I personally would love to see a dynamic pilot training program that is based upon the amount of supply and fuel available in the home countries. Obviously the USA should be able to train up thousands of pilots as they did historically. Japan should be able to train additional pilots in the same manner but have it limited by the number of supply and fuel points available in the home islands. This would also give the allied player another good reason for interdicting the flow of oil and resources to Japan. I would envision a pilot training program be set up somewhat along the lines of aircraft production... only more costly.

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1508

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 5:18:52 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

p.p.s if you asked my Japanese opponents I am sure just as I am incredibly irritated by training on gd attacks I am 100% sure they would like me to tone down my stacking limits on AF's each person playing the game believes in different things !!!

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1509

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 5:20:34 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Its only cunning if PZB doest spot the buildup after the 2 AF's hit lvl 6 or 7 if he spots my build up I could 200 CAP fighters at each base so I wont call it cunnign until I get away with it with acceptable losses !!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

quote:

No no cunning plans

Must we understand you don't call this...

quote:

��Oh it is a one off raid I will not be able to campaign against his Chinese AF's as he will put CAP on them after I raid once.

At present he is not CAPing his trainign bases in china <evil laugh>

A one off raid where I send 96 B29's at each of his 4 main training AF's 192 from Georgetown and 192 from Khota Bahru....

I FRY 4 bases after that I guarantee he will have CAP on those fields which will a cost him in lost pilots as his ops losses go up with pilots landing on damaged fields so he loses part of a crop of pilots and 2 stops him training as quickly as he needs to have some fighters on CAP.!!!!

Basically I will perform 3 days raids on China - this operation is known as OPERATION KINDERGARDEN

DAY 1 hit all 4 bases with 96 B29's each
DAY 2 hit 2 bases with as many operational bombers as I can get in the air.
DAY 3 hit one base with everything left.

DAY 4 hit Saigon with everything that will fly
DAY 5 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 6 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 7 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies
DAY 8 hit Singapore - Destroy Supplies

Withdraw all B29's as they cost to much in supply terms except one Group that will remain for night strat bombing campaign against industry in SEA and night air mining

... "cunning"...?
Well i don't want to�stick around when you'll get cunning for real �

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 1510

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 5:29:38 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Chez thats how the game is modelled just now thats what the Train command is for !!!! It is unnacceptably slow but probably realistic and only gets 60 xp pilots but it is there and does work.

Issue with it is the lack of big training school groups to perform this training i.e. as I have said before create 20 x 100 IJN and IJAAF training schools base them in HI give them a mix of planes restrict them to only the training (and possibly kamikaze) mission and allow transfers of pilots to and from these groups and the pool have them all start with 0 or minimal active planes.

If Japanese player wants to invest airframes, supply and fuel in producing planes for these groups and use them to train rookies using the training command they can - set max XP for each training school to 70 xp (possinbly give bonuses for proportion of veterans in Group and allow transfer of elite pilots out of front line groups for this purpose)

Having done this Dramatically lower xp gain for ground attack by Fighters for both sides and eliminate it totally for supply missions.

That is the mcphie - "probably impossible to programme" method of fixing pilot training

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 11/16/2006 5:35:59 PM >

(in reply to ChezDaJez)

Post #: 1511

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 5:35:48 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

I would even say give the Japanese the 'free' 20 pilots a month they get now but make them higher xp to cover for some 'naturals' being found in training each month or veterans transferring and I would even say let the Japanese keep the 'free' pilots they get with newly arriving airgroups.

The big issue is an always has been the training model is unfair for Japan because they dont have the rear area groups to perform the training - so just give em to them

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 11/16/2006 5:42:03 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1512

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 6:29:41 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chez thats how the game is modelled just now thats what the Train command is for !!!! It is unnacceptably slow but probably realistic and only gets 60 xp pilots but it is there and does work.

Uh... no - not realistic. As game stands now, Japan can produce more trained pilots this way than the Allies.

USN *alone* (i.e. not counting USAAF, which was far larger) was geared to produce 150 pilots/month in 1940, 300/month by mid 1941, 800/month program initiated in Dec 1941, and in 1944, realizing the end of the war was approaching, they REDUCED pilot production to an average of 1700+/month - almost 60* pilots per day. Some pilots were flying patrol ac in the Atlantic, but most went to the Pacific. So where are these in the game?
source:
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/avchr5.htm

(*edited for typo)

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 11/16/2006 8:25:06 PM >

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1513

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:13:39 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Lol thats a lot of pilots I would probably kill at this moment for 200 of them.

I guess my point is we play the game we have warts and all I have never played Japan and probably never will - it just doesnt appeal to me I therefore have the utmost respect for those that do.

I just need to live with the fact that when it comes to fighting over the HI I will have a naval airforce that is LESS experienced and is heavily outnumbered by the Japanese air forces they face is that realistic/historical NO is it the game we have YES therefore I need to try to stop whinging about having no Hellcats in my pool because I got SCREWED

on the historic production rate and not worry about sending my Green pilots into face the elite dogfighting ground attack specialists of the IJAAF and IJNAF.

The next year is going to be SOOOO Bloody and a lot of fun as I go on a mad scramble for points !!!!

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 1514

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:19:51 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

At present all my carrier air sqns are at full strength (more or less) and only the replenishment sqns are in need of pilots and frames I have 19 Hellcats in the pool and no navy pilots. By the time I am ready to attack

I have decided in a small change in plan to remove 2 more Essex class from the West to the East along with the last two fast BB's - I do need to watch his surface assets.

Alaska isnt far away and I get Texas soon soon for what good it will do 12" guns......I also get several Baltimore class CA's

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1515

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:30:04 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK I am still at work but PZB sent the combat report lookie lookie lookie....

My tanks (and overwhelming air attack) got the job done at Khota Baru !!!!!

Now to eliminate the holdouts at Khota Baru/ Georgetown and Mersing and reconcentrate for the next operation....

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 11/04/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 17 encounters mine field at Kagoshima (58,43)

Japanese Ships
MSW Rikusen Maru
MSW Kaiyo Maru #1
MSW Bisan Maru
MSW Toshi Maru #5
MSW Toshi Maru #2
MSW Toshi Maru #1
MSW Toroshima Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 53,42

Japanese Ships
PC PC-50
PC PC-46
PC PC-44
PC PC-43
PC PC-42
PC PC-39
PC PC-38
PC PC-35

Allied Ships
SS Baya, hits 12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 122
N1K1-J George x 71
D4Y Judy x 9
B7A Grace x 32
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 77
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 72

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 240

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 459
J2M Jack x 112
D4Y Judy x 75
B5N Kate x 25
B6N Jill x 48
P1Y Frances x 9
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 36
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 72

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 23
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 486

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Mosquito PR.IX x 1

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Sampit , at 26,62

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 18
B-25J Mitchell x 51

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 34

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Brunei , at 32,57

Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 23

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
Spitfire VIII x 8

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 6

No Allied losses

Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wewak , at 52,81

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 22
F4U-1D Corsair x 21
F6F-5N Hellcat x 18
Hurricane II x 14
Kittyhawk III x 20

No Allied losses

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 55th Division, at 81,84

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 3
F4U-1D Corsair x 22
P-40N Warhawk x 11

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 18th/A Division, at 52,81

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 1

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 30,66

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-2064, Shell hits 8
AG AG-5161, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
107 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x F4U-1 Corsair attacking at 100 feet
4 x F4U-1 Corsair attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 62,62

Japanese Ships
PC Hiburi
PC Ukuru
PC Chiburi
PC Awaji
PC Iki
PC Manju
PC Amakusa
PC Kanju

Allied Ships
SS S-37, hits 7, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Mersing

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 17756 troops, 143 guns, 208 vehicles, Assault Value = 417

Defending force 2761 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 45

Allied max assault: 722 - adjusted assault: 547

Japanese max defense: 31 - adjusted defense: 19

Allied assault odds: 28 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Khota Bharu

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3554 troops, 0 guns, 168 vehicles, Assault Value = 101

Defending force 4783 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 28

Allied max assault: 130 - adjusted assault: 95

Japanese max defense: 16 - adjusted defense: 11

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Khota Bharu base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
323 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1516

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:32:30 PM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chez thats how the game is modelled just now thats what the Train command is for !!!! It is unnacceptably slow but probably realistic and only gets 60 xp pilots but it is there and does work.

Uh... no - not realistic. As game stands now, Japan can produce more trained pilots this way than the Allies.

USN *alone* (i.e. not counting USAAF, which was far larger) was geared to produce 150 pilots/month in 1940, 300/month by mid 1941, 800/month program initiated in Dec 1941, and in 1944, realizing the end of the war was approaching, they REDUCED pilot production to an average of 1700+/month - almost 60* pilots per day. Some pilots were flying patrol ac in the Atlantic, but most went to the Pacific. So where are these in the game?
source:
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/avchr5.htm

(*edited for typo)

Interesting link, thanks. Keep in mind that several hundreds, maybe thousands US pilots arrive with reinforcement squadrons in WitP.

Do you have more links regarding the US pilot training program?

_____________________________

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 1517

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:38:16 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Its about 9 x 30 CVL's say 270
10 Fleet Carriers with 90 per so 900
Escort Carriers 30 ish each and there are what about 50 of them ? so 1500

Say all in including land based its about 3000 or 6 - 8 weeks worth of USN pilots need to be removed to account for new build....tell you what lets be generous I will accept only 500 per month how is that ?

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 11/16/2006 8:42:49 PM >

(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 1518

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 8:43:36 PM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

You forgot ship-based float planes...

I agree with that number - and your conclusion. Something for the RHS Tag Team Thread, me thinks...

_____________________________

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1519

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/16/2006 9:03:03 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Chez thats how the game is modelled just now thats what the Train command is for !!!! It is unnacceptably slow but probably realistic and only gets 60 xp pilots but it is there and does work.

Uh... no - not realistic. As game stands now, Japan can produce more trained pilots this way than the Allies.

USN *alone* (i.e. not counting USAAF, which was far larger) was geared to produce 150 pilots/month in 1940, 300/month by mid 1941, 800/month program initiated in Dec 1941, and in 1944, realizing the end of the war was approaching, they REDUCED pilot production to an average of 1700+/month - almost 60* pilots per day. Some pilots were flying patrol ac in the Atlantic, but most went to the Pacific. So where are these in the game?
source:
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/avchr5.htm

(*edited for typo)

Interesting link, thanks. Keep in mind that several hundreds, maybe thousands US pilots arrive with reinforcement squadrons in WitP.

Do you have more links regarding the US pilot training program?

i had run across some sites a while back, but i haven't been able to find them right now (at work)... i never really dug out the numbers before, but i got interested after seeing a program about the Battle of Britain - at the beginning of the BoB, Britain was producing ~200 pilots per month, and Germany ~800/month (according to the program). i started thinking that the US figures must be woefully underestimated... and from this site they apparently are. i assume the USMC figures are part of this effort (as they trained at Navy bases), but still, 60 pilots per day for USN/USMC is kind of staggering.

i have a vague memory (???from Sakuro Sakai's book) that the IJN program was 120 pilots per year, but i could be wrong about that. You might be able to figure out what the program produced from some stats in Shattered Sword (they go into total numbers of IJN carrier pilots before and after the battle of Midway). i have no idea what the IJA program produced, but it didn't sound substantial from what i have read.

(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 1520

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 2:39:01 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Quiet one

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 11/05/44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 16 encounters mine field at Kadina (54,45)

Japanese Ships
MSW Tomozono Maru #3
MSW Tasei Maru
MSW Takasago Maru
MSW Tamaura Maru
MSW Sonobe Maru
MSW Shonan Maru #8

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ASW attack at 46,48

Japanese Ships
PG Saiko Maru
PG Kyo Maru #10
PG Koei Maru
PG Ikunta Maru
PG Chosa Maru
PG Uji
PG Saga
MSW Hinode Maru #18

Allied Ships
SS Becuna

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Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 462
J2M Jack x 110
D4Y Judy x 60
B5N Kate x 7
B6N Jill x 43
P1Y Frances x 6
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 35
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 61

No Japanese losses

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 431

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32

Japanese aircraft
J2M Jack x 3
P1Y Frances x 19
Ki-84-Ia Frank x 12
Ki-46-III Dinah x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Runway hits 25

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 32

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
148 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 39

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on Sampit , at 26,62

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 16
B-25J Mitchell x 54

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on Brunei , at 32,57

Allied aircraft
P-47D Thunderbolt x 20

No Allied losses

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Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 4
PB4Y Liberator x 7

No Allied losses

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 4th Engineer Regiment, at 24,45

Allied aircraft
Liberator VI x 11
Beaufighter VIC x 16
Mosquito FB.VI x 12
B-25J Mitchell x 38
B-24J Liberator x 24

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
118 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 4th Engineer Regiment, at 24,45

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 36
F6F Hellcat x 15
F4U-1D Corsair x 9
TBM Avenger x 15
Beaufighter VIC x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 3
P-38J Lightning x 16
B-25J Mitchell x 42

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
306 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 4th Engineer Regiment, at 24,45

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 10
TBM Avenger x 18
P-38J Lightning x 60
B-25J Mitchell x 33

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 84th Chinese Corps, at 43,35

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 24
B7A Grace x 56
Ki-102a Randy x 10

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 6th/B Division, at 24,45

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 17
B-24J Liberator x 11

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
47 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on 6th/B Division, at 24,45

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 16
F6F Hellcat x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
TBM Avenger x 8
P-38J Lightning x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Arkansan, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
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Day Air attack on Kendari , at 33,71

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 8

No Allied losses

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Day Air attack on 18th/A Division, at 52,81

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 1

No Allied losses

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Day Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 33,61

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 22

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 9
Kittyhawk III x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Kittyhawk III: 2 destroyed
P-40N Warhawk: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
TK Azuma Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:

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Ground combat at Georgetown

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 7938 troops, 108 guns, 9 vehicles, Assault Value = 146

Defending force 1418 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 39

Allied max assault: 254 - adjusted assault: 100

Japanese max defense: 34 - adjusted defense: 9

Allied assault odds: 11 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
48 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported

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Ground combat at Mersing

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 17731 troops, 143 guns, 210 vehicles, Assault Value = 414

Defending force 2656 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 37

Allied max assault: 720 - adjusted assault: 600

Japanese max defense: 26 - adjusted defense: 7

Allied assault odds: 85 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
253 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Allied ground losses:
25 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

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Ground combat at Khota Bharu

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3544 troops, 0 guns, 167 vehicles, Assault Value = 100

Defending force 2779 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 24

Allied max assault: 154 - adjusted assault: 106

Japanese max defense: 11 - adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 106 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
789 casualties reported

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 1521

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 2:41:35 AM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

My top Sqns Navy is lagging badly behind most Hellcats are in 60's and Wildcats mid 50's

But look at those Mitchells anytime PZB wants to come close in range he is welcome to it these are my anti shipping specialists !!!!

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Post #: 1522

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 2:51:15 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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Have you tried any skip bombing with your Mitchell's??

How is your experience levels for your "Flying Death Star??" B-29's

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Post #: 1523

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 12:28:03 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Yup my Mitchells destroyed mini KB earlier in the game off of New Britain near Sag Sag by Skip bombing

I tend not to use it much though its hard on morale and those pilots do ok at 6,000 feet plus even at 100 feet Mitchells arent going to dent his BB's and it is those battlewagons that have me worried

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Post #: 1524

Malaysia/Burma offensive - 11/17/2006 12:59:17 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

How many BBs does PzB still have? How many carriers?
Do you think he might use his fleet to disturb the supply towards Malaya or do you think it is possible he does some Deep raid into your part of the Pacific to do some damage?

If he uses his fleet (estimate 5BBs and 3 carriers plus escorts) against Malaysia, could you fight him back or would PzB reign the seas?
He has many bases on Batavia and Java, add those of Indochina and his new KB, you might get deep into trouble.
On the other hand this might be exactly what you want.
To improve this I justed gave as subject Malaysia/Burma offensive. Possibly he might read the topic.

< Message edited by Frank -- 11/17/2006 1:03:38 PM >

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Post #: 1525

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 1:00:48 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

OK Op plan for plan Yellow

Wake
3 Amphib Corps
96th US Div
41st US Div
PI RCT

Marcus
77th US Div
31st US Div

Iwo
98th US Div
81st US Div
6th USMC Div

Bonins
1 Amphib Corps
4th USMC Div
38th US Div
93rd US Div

Army Reserve
XI Corps
10 RCT's

I Corps
43 US Div
112th Cav Regt

Plus other forces redeploying from the West

(in reply to Andy Mac)

Post #: 1526

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 1:04:56 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

Can you cover all this landings?

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Post #: 1527

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 1:10:43 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Not at the same time the plan (tentative) is to load up everything in one wave in 4 TF's and have each landing in turn covered by the same force basically over a very short period of time each TF will follow on the cover them in turn I do not have the sea power to cover 4 at the same time ---- they are all atolls so the combat will be brutal but short !!!

(in reply to frank1970)

Post #: 1528

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 1:44:45 PM

Speedysteve

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline

Hi Andy,

I'm intrigued as to how you intend to act operationally with these atoll landings?

I tried to take Wake with 7 x Division. This was against IGD + 2 x NG + BF + HQ + CD unit. Mine were all prepped but my main problem was the immense CD fire and mines led to complete desolation of my attacking forces leaving most of them at 10/15% operational after 2 days lanfdings!

As such Wake II was also spearheaded by 7 x division but this time I smacked Wake with CV/BB's for a month and THEN went in. Even then my forces were about 70/95 after taking the place and this was against a rag tag of 2 x NGU, 2 x BF, 1 x CD, 1 x HQ!

How do you plan to do it?

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Post #: 1529

RE: SEAC is back in the fight !!!! - 11/17/2006 1:52:01 PM

Andy Mac

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline

Lots of MSW's
Dedicated BB's in the assault TF and double bombardment TF hitting them the day beofre landing and the day of landing
LCI (G and R) in TF to take the heat from the CD guns
Force HQ on AGC
1 DAY landing after one day pull off do not continue to land if forces do not land in one day to bad
Heavies out of Pearl and Entiwock attack for 2 days before landing.
LOTS of supplies over the beach on day 1
Minimum 3 Armoured Regts per assault

etc etc

(in reply to Speedysteve)

Post #: 1530

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