Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Tanaka, I've read a number of threads where players recount extensive DB losses due to low altitude ground fire. DBs will dive on a target, land or sea, if starting from an altitude of 10-15K. To avoid being hit by virtually every anti aircraft weapon in your opponent's inventory (including the kitchen sink) one should avoid doing DB land attacks starting from those altitudes. Remember that even 30 Cal machine guns can hit aircraft when down below 3K. So my rule of thumb is never to use these highly skilled aviators (either torpedo or DB) against land targets unless absolutely necessary and for DB pilots in particular NEVER let them dive on a defended land target. They are far too valuable to your naval warfare game to expend them on land targets of dubious worth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Tanaka forgive me if I wasn't clear in my last input to you. I didn't mean to suggest that you don't attack land units. That you can do. I just mean to say using highly skilled DB and TB pilots should be avoided as they take a long time to train and are more useful as ship killers. Level bombing is the way to go to reduce an island or other land targets. NOW, one must decide at what altitude. There's the rub, as it's a trade off between losses you are willing to take and damage you want to inflict. The lower the altitude, the higher potential damage you inflict but also much higher losses you may suffer. Only you as the player can make that call, as there's no set rule. However one thing you CAN do is look at the type of AA weapons your opponent might have in the target hex and adjust your attack altitude to be 1K above the max range (up) that the likely AA fire can be. Thus you avoid the worst that he/she can throw at you.

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ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks for the tips yeah I assume when you say level bombing you mean above 15,000 with dive bombers while torpedo planes will level bomb at any altitude. One thing I've noticed though is I get much more losses to flak with Kates than Vals. Which makes me only want to use Vals against ground units...

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ORIGINAL: dr.hal

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ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Thanks for the tips yeah I assume when you say level bombing you mean above 15,000 with dive bombers while torpedo planes will level bomb at any altitude. One thing I've noticed though is I get much more losses to flak with Kates than Vals. Which makes me only want to use Vals against ground units...

Actually no, I don't mean level bombing above 15K. You need only avoid using DIVE bombers between 10K and 15K as that commits them to diving. If they dive it brings them down to 2K and thus LOTS of lead. All other bombers (level) can do bombing runs from 1K up to their altitude limits. Those are the runs that you want to use keeping in mind that the lower you go, the more damage you might GET in terms of AA fire. Vals are something to keep out of this mix or to fly below 10K or above 15K (which is pretty useless given their meager payload of a 250kg bomb). As for your comment about Kates and Vals ability to take punishment, I don't remember off hand, but I think the Kate's durability rating is lower than the Val and thus more prone to damage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Tanaka, I just looked up the ratings for both the B5N2 Kate and D3A1 Val in tracker to see their durability. The Val is more durable and more maneuverable than the Kate (Val 28 to Kate 26 durability and 25 vs 16 in maneuverability). This makes sense as one is a single seat aircraft while the other is a three seater. Thus if you get higher Val losses it might reflect that you had them fly at dive altitude which they do automatically (and thus took flak at 2K) while the Kates remain "above the fray" at a higher level altitude. Otherwise it makes sense that the Kate is a more vulnerable aircraft.

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ORIGINAL: Nomad

I would not dispute that.

As allies I would fly all DBs and TBs at 9000 feet. That puts them above all the 25mm, 37mm, and 40mm flack that Japan has.
Medium and attack bombers can go in lower if necessary. And if a target is found to not have much AA then the DBs can dive bomb.

But Japan has a problem with DBs. The Allies 40mm Bofors has an altitude rating of 9800 feet.
A DB can not make a level bombing run at 10,000 feet, so it would have to bomb from 16,000 feet to not dive bomb.

And it is interesting that again the proper usage is based on "It depends."

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ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Agree with all the comments about not risking high skill Nav attack pilots on ground missions.

However, even when deciding the risk is warranted the challenge comes in not being able to set different altitudes for primary and secondary missions.

Most times, you won't want to give up the Nav attack threat so you would set Nav attack as the primary mission and Ground attack as the secondary.

In order to be able to dive bomb in any Nav attack that presents itself, you are then risking executing the Ground attack at an unfavorable altitude setting.

This is why the torpedo bombers are better choices for Ground attack if you arecompelled to execute one with a Nav attack bomber.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Agree with all the comments about not risking high skill Nav attack pilots on ground missions.

However, even when deciding the risk is warranted the challenge comes in not being able to set different altitudes for primary and secondary missions.

Most times, you won't want to give up the Nav attack threat so you would set Nav attack as the primary mission and Ground attack as the secondary.

In order to be able to dive bomb in any Nav attack that presents itself, you are then risking executing the Ground attack at an unfavorable altitude setting.

This is why the torpedo bombers are better choices for Ground attack if you arecompelled to execute one with a Nav attack bomber.

I agree, and would add that the Avenger can drop 4 bombs vs one big one from an SBD or SBC type. On soft land targets four bombs is better than a large single semi-armour (or ground) piercing one.

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ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

If I absolutely need to pound ground with dive bombers, I'd rather set secondary mission either Port or AF Attack. Primary is always Naval Attack.

You usually get "more bang for the puck" to attack facilities and maybe bagging plane/ship or 2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Agree with all the comments about not risking high skill Nav attack pilots on ground missions.

However, even when deciding the risk is warranted the challenge comes in not being able to set different altitudes for primary and secondary missions.

Most times, you won't want to give up the Nav attack threat so you would set Nav attack as the primary mission and Ground attack as the secondary.

In order to be able to dive bomb in any Nav attack that presents itself, you are then risking executing the Ground attack at an unfavorable altitude setting.

This is why the torpedo bombers are better choices for Ground attack if you arecompelled to execute one with a Nav attack bomber.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

If I absolutely need to pound ground with dive bombers, I'd rather set secondary mission either Port or AF Attack. Primary is always Naval Attack.

You usually get "more bang for the puck" to attack facilities and maybe bagging plane/ship or 2.

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ORIGINAL: Nomad

Just a quick blurb here. DBs do NOT always dive to 2000 feet for their release:

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ORIGINAL: castor troy

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Agree with all the comments about not risking high skill Nav attack pilots on ground missions.

However, even when deciding the risk is warranted the challenge comes in not being able to set different altitudes for primary and secondary missions.

Most times, you won't want to give up the Nav attack threat so you would set Nav attack as the primary mission and Ground attack as the secondary.

In order to be able to dive bomb in any Nav attack that presents itself, you are then risking executing the Ground attack at an unfavorable altitude setting.

This is why the torpedo bombers are better choices for Ground attack if you arecompelled to execute one with a Nav attack bomber.

I agree, and would add that the Avenger can drop 4 bombs vs one big one from an SBD or SBC type. On soft land targets four bombs is better than a large single semi-armour (or ground) piercing one.

Which mod? I've only ever seen Avengers dropping 2x500lb bombs. And Helldivers could drop 1x1000lb + 2x250lb bombs.

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ORIGINAL: Yaab

Attacks against LCUs in bases too.

Combat report only lists killed/disabled squads. What you don't see is disruption, fatigue, and morale loss/supression inflicted on units you have just bombed. Bomb them, even if your kill/disabled count is low.