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Part 3 of FitE 5.0

 
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Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/20/2006 7:29:03 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Stallin is thinking that now that his defensive line is ready he can start thinking offensively. He thinks that he can shorten the defensive lines in the NorthWest of Leningrad, and use the Easternmost line to strike the Axis now that his supply lines are stretched and the units are low on ammo:

Post #: 1
RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/20/2006 7:49:57 PM   
mark24

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 8/4/2002
Status: offline 		Hi Larry,

I think if you attack around Leningrad you could end up losing it. I'd stay defensive with the two westernmost groups, & move the large redundant line SE of Leningrad to a suitable posistion in order to be used as a strategic reserve.

Running out of a powerful reserve with the situation as it is could prove disastrous.

/tuppence

Mark

< Message edited by mark24 -- 6/20/2006 7:53:12 PM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 2
RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/20/2006 9:24:30 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Hi Larry,

Per some of your earlier comments, the rail lines that start broken are actually non-existent in 1941. These are rail lines the soviets built during the war.

As to the earlier discussion about Soviet replacement squads, I have read the scenario documentation and it appears to me the designers have had to make a lot of compromises due to unit limits (max of 2000 per side).

I think the problem the soviets face in the early war years in this scenario is simply a lack of sufficient units on map. A large chunk of those 2000 Soviet units arrive as reinforcements much later, so the designers have given the Soviets tons of replacements to assure them the ability to rebuild destroyed units as soon as possible to try and keep as many units on map in the early part of the scenario as possible.

If you’re trying to recreate the 1941 Soviet army with only 800-1200 units, you’re not going to be able to do a very good job, so letting those units rebuild ASAP is your best/only work around.

Personally as the axis I’d spread out my units as much as possible since the Soviets obviously don’t have enough units to stop you. Spread out the front till he’s stretch to the breaking point and you can simply swarm around his flanks when his available units run out.

This is a real weakness in the TOAW engine when trying to recreate large historical battles like this one. I wish Matrix would make it a priority to up those limits to 4000-6000 per side.

Being able to build the actual Soviet army at regiment level the way the German army is done in this scenario would make this a true masterpiece. But I think the compromises made due to engine limitations probably dooms a Soviet player when faced by a German opponent who realizes the fact the Soviets are critically short of on map units for the first 40+ turns or so.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 6/20/2006 9:26:03 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 3
Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/20/2006 9:49:08 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I think you guys have made excellent points, both of you.  I think you for your comments....I don't get enough comments in these things ( AARs ).  Points taken.  Really.

Here's some Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:



< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/20/2006 10:08:27 PM >

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 4
RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/21/2006 2:20:31 AM   
mark24

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 8/4/2002
Status: offline 		Larry

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I think you guys have made excellent points, both of you.  I think you for your comments....I don't get enough comments in these things ( AARs ).  Points taken.  Really.


I forgot to say, " keep up the good work!" I log in every day knowing there will be more to the story :) .

Thank you, Larry, for this wonderful AAR.

Mark

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 5
FitE Axis Turn 12: - 6/21/2006 8:28:43 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		According to house rules minors cannot participate in the same attack, so here I have the Italians ( yellow ) attacking the partisan and not the Slovic unit(s):


(in reply to mark24)
Post #: 6
FitE Axis Turn 12: - 6/21/2006 9:22:16 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what the north half of the front lines looks like after the second combat round in Axis turn 12:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 7
FitE Axis Turn 12: - 6/21/2006 9:29:54 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the South half of the front lines after the 2nd combat round of Axis turn 12:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 8
FitE Axis Turn 12: - 6/21/2006 1:54:12 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Soviets keep flying interdiction missions and the Axis keeps shooting them down:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 9
RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 - 6/21/2006 7:09:32 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Per some of your earlier comments, the rail lines that start broken are actually non-existent in 1941. These are rail lines the soviets built during the war.

Hey my guess was right!

quote:


This is a real weakness in the TOAW engine when trying to recreate large historical battles like this one. I wish Matrix would make it a priority to up those limits to 4000-6000 per side.

That is the precise reason I am going to hold off on playing this scenario. Which otherwise would be number one on the list ...

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 10
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 12 - 6/21/2006 10:30:56 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I don't know about you guys but I like to keep my separate HQ units at road junctions so that they can be adjacent to more than one stack at a time:


(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 11
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 12: - 6/21/2006 11:35:17 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the moves for turns 11 and 12:




< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/22/2006 1:50:54 AM >

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Post #: 12
FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: - 6/22/2006 1:59:30 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some Soviet losses so far and the number of units in play:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 13
FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: - 6/22/2006 2:08:46 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's part of the reason the Axis is in such a hurry to get to Moscow ( the Soviets are getting boatloads of reinforcements each and every turn ) [ note that in this latest shipment of expected reinforcements there are two partisan units due to arrive ]:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 14
FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: - 6/22/2006 2:18:42 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Most of the Soviet reinforcements arrive in Gorkiy and are arriving so fast they are starting to pile up in the train railyards.  I try to ship out the Fortress units first ( FR ) since they are the ones with the Heavy Rifle Squads in them:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 15
FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: - 6/22/2006 2:25:37 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		A hole has appeared in the NorthEast side of the Leningrad defense line.  The Soviets will have to scrape some units together to patch that hole.  If they don't the Germans will come pouring through there.  The Finns have to stop at the Stop line but the Germans have no such restriction:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 16
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 5:11:24 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		What I like to do is set my fighters on air superiority and then fly my paratroopers somewhere even if only from one airbase to another so that the enemy interdictors get shot down before I move any of my ground units:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 17
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 5:30:53 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Axis forces have two more Soviet partisans to deal with this turn:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 18
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 6:12:02 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I estimate that it's gonna take about 10 more turns before the supply gets a lot better to the SW of leningrad for the Axis to consider making any serious attacks there:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 19
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 7:22:23 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The battle for Smolensk has started.  The Axis has brought up some railroad guns and are pounding the
airfield(s) around the city proper:



< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/22/2006 7:25:35 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 20
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 8:36:07 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I think maybe just maybe I might have just enough forces to perhaps take Odessa:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 21
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 9:05:19 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Soviets keep launching interdiction missions and the Axis keeps shooting them down:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 22
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 10:00:06 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's what the front lines look like after the first combat round of Axis turn 13:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 23
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 10:05:09 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 24
RE: FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 6:22:54 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Axis is in the process of reducing Odessa slowly:



< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/22/2006 6:24:00 PM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 25
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 10:02:50 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		The Soviet perimeter at Kiev collapsed.  Axis units on the SouthEast side pressed in almost to the Soviet howitzer pits:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 26
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: - 6/22/2006 10:10:48 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis moves for turns 12 and 13:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 27
FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 13: - 6/22/2006 10:26:41 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some Soviet losses so far and the number of units in play:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 28
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 14: - 6/23/2006 3:05:32 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's some of the Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 29
FitE 5.0 Axis turn 14: - 6/23/2006 8:29:45 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Here's the Axis moves for turns 12 thru 14:


(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 30
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