Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/20/2006 7:29:03 PM)

Stallin is thinking that now that his defensive line is ready he can start thinking offensively. He thinks that he can shorten the defensive lines in the NorthWest of Leningrad, and use the Easternmost line to strike the Axis now that his supply lines are stretched and the units are low on ammo:

[img]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1741/turn11sovietbattleplan5ql.gif[/img]



mark24 -> RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/20/2006 7:49:57 PM)

Hi Larry,

I think if you attack around Leningrad you could end up losing it. I'd stay defensive with the two westernmost groups, & move the large redundant line SE of Leningrad to a suitable posistion in order to be used as a strategic reserve.

Running out of a powerful reserve with the situation as it is could prove disastrous.

/tuppence

Mark



Jim D Burns -> RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/20/2006 9:24:30 PM)

Hi Larry,

Per some of your earlier comments, the rail lines that start broken are actually non-existent in 1941. These are rail lines the soviets built during the war.

As to the earlier discussion about Soviet replacement squads, I have read the scenario documentation and it appears to me the designers have had to make a lot of compromises due to unit limits (max of 2000 per side).

I think the problem the soviets face in the early war years in this scenario is simply a lack of sufficient units on map. A large chunk of those 2000 Soviet units arrive as reinforcements much later, so the designers have given the Soviets tons of replacements to assure them the ability to rebuild destroyed units as soon as possible to try and keep as many units on map in the early part of the scenario as possible.

If you’re trying to recreate the 1941 Soviet army with only 800-1200 units, you’re not going to be able to do a very good job, so letting those units rebuild ASAP is your best/only work around.

Personally as the axis I’d spread out my units as much as possible since the Soviets obviously don’t have enough units to stop you. Spread out the front till he’s stretch to the breaking point and you can simply swarm around his flanks when his available units run out.

This is a real weakness in the TOAW engine when trying to recreate large historical battles like this one. I wish Matrix would make it a priority to up those limits to 4000-6000 per side.

Being able to build the actual Soviet army at regiment level the way the German army is done in this scenario would make this a true masterpiece. But I think the compromises made due to engine limitations probably dooms a Soviet player when faced by a German opponent who realizes the fact the Soviets are critically short of on map units for the first 40+ turns or so.

Jim



larryfulkerson -> Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/20/2006 9:49:08 PM)

I think you guys have made excellent points, both of you.  I think you for your comments....I don't get enough comments in these things ( AARs ).  Points taken.  Really.

Here's some Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:

[img]http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/586/turn11someaxislosses0pr.gif[/img]



mark24 -> RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/21/2006 2:20:31 AM)

Larry

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I think you guys have made excellent points, both of you.  I think you for your comments....I don't get enough comments in these things ( AARs ).  Points taken.  Really.


I forgot to say, " keep up the good work!" I log in every day knowing there will be more to the story :) .

Thank you, Larry, for this wonderful AAR.

Mark



larryfulkerson -> FitE Axis Turn 12: (6/21/2006 8:28:43 AM)

According to house rules minors cannot participate in the same attack, so here I have the Italians ( yellow ) attacking the partisan and not the Slovic unit(s):

[img]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4381/houserulesaboutminorsandattack.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE Axis Turn 12: (6/21/2006 9:22:16 AM)

Here's what the north half of the front lines looks like after the second combat round in Axis turn 12:

[img]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2364/frontlinesnorthhalfaxisturn127.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE Axis Turn 12: (6/21/2006 9:29:54 AM)

Here's the South half of the front lines after the 2nd combat round of Axis turn 12:

[img]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3926/frontlinessouthhalfaxisturn126.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE Axis Turn 12: (6/21/2006 1:54:12 PM)

The Soviets keep flying interdiction missions and the Axis keeps shooting them down:

[img]http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8059/axisturn12aircraftlossreport8i.gif[/img]



Captain Cruft -> RE: Part 3 of FitE 5.0 (6/21/2006 7:09:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Per some of your earlier comments, the rail lines that start broken are actually non-existent in 1941. These are rail lines the soviets built during the war.

Hey my guess was right! [8D]

quote:


This is a real weakness in the TOAW engine when trying to recreate large historical battles like this one. I wish Matrix would make it a priority to up those limits to 4000-6000 per side.

That is the precise reason I am going to hold off on playing this scenario. Which otherwise would be number one on the list ... [;)]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 12 (6/21/2006 10:30:56 PM)

I don't know about you guys but I like to keep my separate HQ units at road junctions so that they can be adjacent to more than one stack at a time:

[img]http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/536/hqunitsatroadjunctions0bo.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 12: (6/21/2006 11:35:17 PM)

Here's the moves for turns 11 and 12:

[img]http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6632/groundsituationturns11and12mov.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: (6/22/2006 1:59:30 AM)

Here's some Soviet losses so far and the number of units in play:

[img]http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/4332/turn12somesovietlosses8ci.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: (6/22/2006 2:08:46 AM)

Here's part of the reason the Axis is in such a hurry to get to Moscow ( the Soviets are getting boatloads of reinforcements each and every turn ) [ note that in this latest shipment of expected reinforcements there are two partisan units due to arrive ]:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2973/turn12sovietexpectedreinforcem.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: (6/22/2006 2:18:42 AM)

Most of the Soviet reinforcements arrive in Gorkiy and are arriving so fast they are starting to pile up in the train railyards.  I try to ship out the Fortress units first ( FR ) since they are the ones with the Heavy Rifle Squads in them:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7831/sovietreinforcementsingorkiy5z.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 12: (6/22/2006 2:25:37 AM)

A hole has appeared in the NorthEast side of the Leningrad defense line.  The Soviets will have to scrape some units together to patch that hole.  If they don't the Germans will come pouring through there.  The Finns have to stop at the Stop line but the Germans have no such restriction:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4172/leningradholeindefenselines0ad.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 5:11:24 AM)

What I like to do is set my fighters on air superiority and then fly my paratroopers somewhere even if only from one airbase to another so that the enemy interdictors get shot down before I move any of my ground units:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/420/flyingairsuperoninterdictors7c.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 5:30:53 AM)

Axis forces have two more Soviet partisans to deal with this turn:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2668/twomorepartisanstodealwith6ki.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 6:12:02 AM)

I estimate that it's gonna take about 10 more turns before the supply gets a lot better to the SW of leningrad for the Axis to consider making any serious attacks there:

[img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1263/supplypoortoswleningradareamov.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 7:22:23 AM)

The battle for Smolensk has started.  The Axis has brought up some railroad guns and are pounding the
airfield(s) around the city proper:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4140/smolenskbattlehasstarted0nl.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 8:36:07 AM)

I think maybe just maybe I might have just enough forces to perhaps take Odessa:

[img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1356/odessaassultforces3pa.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 9:05:19 AM)

The Soviets keep launching interdiction missions and the Axis keeps shooting them down:

[img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3962/aircmbatrepportturn132gm.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 10:00:06 AM)

Here's what the front lines look like after the first combat round of Axis turn 13:

[img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2224/frontlinesturn132sb.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 10:05:09 AM)

Here's the Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:

[img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9930/axislossesturn135ji.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 6:22:54 PM)

The Axis is in the process of reducing Odessa slowly:

[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8996/axisreducesodessa9ei.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 10:02:50 PM)

The Soviet perimeter at Kiev collapsed.  Axis units on the SouthEast side pressed in almost to the Soviet howitzer pits:

[img]http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7895/kievperimetercollapses4na.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 13: (6/22/2006 10:10:48 PM)

Here's the Axis moves for turns 12 and 13:

[img]http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1548/groundsituationturns12and13mov.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Soviet turn 13: (6/22/2006 10:26:41 PM)

Here's some Soviet losses so far and the number of units in play:

[img]http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/3040/turn13somesovietlosses9cp.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 14: (6/23/2006 3:05:32 AM)

Here's some of the Axis losses so far and the number of units in play:

[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4584/turn14someaxislosses9du.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> FitE 5.0 Axis turn 14: (6/23/2006 8:29:45 PM)

Here's the Axis moves for turns 12 thru 14:

[img]http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/428/groundsituationturns12thru14mo.gif[/img]



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