Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, My sentiments aside, that we need to stable fite...
My openent and I are back and running, so you may also see a new LF and I game, old fite5.0 with some new interesting pro german house rules to help.
Much thanks to Ralph, seems I cannot tell the difference between two same name differnent extention files!

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ORIGINAL: loveman1
Maybe the producers of the game need to put some better sort of adjustments to allow for the russian player not to retreat his forward units during the opening phase of Barbarossa...

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ORIGINAL: loveman1

The russians were disorganised and lacked leadership and perhaps a movement penalty needs to be imposed during the firat couple of months of barbarossa.

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ORIGINAL: loveman1

Well I am playing against Cantona and it is into winter of 1942 and I am getting my rear kicked good and proper. Yhe only thing I would say is that the russian army seems to keep growing in size and the german army cant break throught the front line as the russian player keeps reinforcing the line at the breakthrough points so perhaps makes for a game of static warfare. Maybe the producers of the game need to put some better sort of adjustments to allow for the russian player not to retreat his forward units during the opening phase of Barbarossa and the russian airforce is also a killer around october onwards despite smashing the majority of it in the opening turns.

The russians were disorganised and lacked leadership and perhaps a movement penalty needs to be imposed during the firat couple of months of barbarossa.

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ORIGINAL: loveman1
Maybe the producers of the game need to put some better sort of adjustments to allow for the russian player not to retreat his forward units during the opening phase of Barbarossa...

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ORIGINAL: Zort

I think setting the Shock to 80 was the designers intent to do this.

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ORIGINAL: golden delicious

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ORIGINAL: Zort

I think setting the Shock to 80 was the designers intent to do this.

It doesn't really do the job, though. One in five formations stay put whilst the other four rush off to a line twenty hexes in front of Moscow. Except for those unlucky enough to be in striking distance of the border, only one in twenty-five formations will still be sitting in place after a second turn. Etc.

In fact, the heavy shock actively encourages the Soviet player to avoid early confrontation. I'd say on balance, though it's realistic enough in itself, it does nothing to prevent an unseemly flight on the part of the Russian.

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ORIGINAL: Telumar
Yeah - it would be nice to be able to set movement bias, force proficiency, electronic support level, force communication level and night combat proficiency (did i forget something?) by events. With this a lot could be done in this specific scenario as well as in all others. That would be a really mighty tool for designers. Has anyone of you TOADs ever brought this idea to Ralph or James?

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ORIGINAL: Telumar

Yeah - it would be nice to be able to set movement bias, force proficiency, electronic support level, force communication level and night combat proficiency (did i forget something?) by events.

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ORIGINAL: freeboy

that could be simulated by captured cities, there are tons of vp citites on the way to Moscow!

To repeat history in a game is to be predictable.
If you wish to learn more about EA, feel free to pop over to the EA forums Europe Aflame Forums.

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ORIGINAL: golden delicious

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ORIGINAL: Telumar

Yeah - it would be nice to be able to set movement bias, force proficiency, electronic support level, force communication level and night combat proficiency (did i forget something?) by events.

I agree- but none of this serves to make the Russian stand and fight in the early turns of a Barbarossa scenario.

One solution- which is currently not possible- would be to tie the end of shock effects and other penalties to the Russian or German loss total. So if the Red Army falls back to Moscow without a fight it will still be ripe for collapse there. Probably German loss penalty, as otherwise the event could be triggered just by disbanding units.

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ORIGINAL: loveman1

The russians were disorganised and lacked leadership and perhaps a movement penalty needs to be imposed during the firat couple of months of barbarossa.

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ORIGINAL: Telumar

What could be done is to award the soviet player VPs for holding Minsk, Smolensk etc until a certain turn,

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I like the idea you outlined above, would make sense, the soviets quickly learned from their early errors and adopted quite some german tactics in the course of the war and became the true masters of Blitzkrieg (Bagration etc.) to a certain degree. Without a fight until the germans reach the vicinity of Moscow they might have learned less (as it's the errors you learn from). Maybe in TOAW IV..

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ORIGINAL: Zort

Another way I think that will in effect hold the frontier sov forces in place without freezing them would be to reduce the number of equipment. So if research tells us that the forces were at 45% strength the wouldn't that effect the movement and fighting ability?

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How about starting the proficiency even lower to start and to get it up the sov will have to attack won't he?

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ORIGINAL: Zort

So if I like set the proficiency of the starting armies and first year non guards/shock units lower would you think that would help?