Slitherine

quote:

S/O 39 Start line:
-Hex “Yellow” [River] should be Jap, also Hex West of it.
-Hex East of “Yellow” [River] should remain Jap.
-Hex West of Wuhan should be Jap.
-Hex Hex South-West of Wuhan should be Jap, also Hex West of it.
-Hex North of Lake Tungling (between the 2 rivers) should be Jap.
-Hainan should be Jap (conquered 1.-3.39)
-Right, Nanchang and hexes around it should be Jap (city fell End of March 1939)
-Also your corrections with the frontline East of Nanyang, seem right to me

quote:

J/A 40 Start line:
-Hex Ichang and the Yangzi-Hexes to Lake Tungling should be Jap. (Result of Battle of Tsaoyang/Ichang 5.6-40)-
-Hex Nanning, the 2 Hexes South of it, Hex Pakhoi, the 2 hexes South of it Jap (Result of Nanning offensive 11.39 inspite of Chinese counteroffensive starting in 12.39)

quote:

This would make the 1939 start lines look like this
(solid line = current MWiF line / semi transparent line = line advised by wosung)

Question : Should the treaty ports (Swatow, Amoy, Foochow, Wenchow) be Japanese controlled in S/O 1939 ?

quote:

M/J 41 Start line
-essentially same as J/A 40 Start line (minor battles, offensives, counteroffensives stalemates)


S/O 41 start line
-essentially same as M/J41 Start line (5.41 Battle f Southern Shansi: some Jap Progress North to South toward the Yellow River, but only some 10 km. 9.41 2nd. battle of Changsha, Chinese front held)


M/J 42 start line
-Pakhoi was under Jap control since Nanning offensive 11.39
-Probably right about small Perimeter around Canton
- apart of this: nothing new (3d battle of Changsha 12.41-1.42, front held)


J/A 43 start line
-nothing new (Battle of Western Hupei 5-6.43 stalemate)


M/J 44 start line
-instead of the rather huge Jap gains toward Sian of the WIFFE start line, it should be only 2 hexes West of Kaifeng (Battle of Central Honan 4.-6.44: IJA mostly moved along the Kaifeng Sian rail and along the Peking-Wuhan rail. End of April IJA reached Loyang, about 100km West of Kaifeng, and some 30 km South of Chengchow).

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung
Yeah, I forgot the Southern treaty ports:

Date of Japanese invasion/occuption:

-Amoy: May 1938
-Swatow: June 1938
-Foochow: May 1941
-Wenchow: 11.7.1942 (!)

Note that Southern Chekiang, Western Kiangsi and most of Fukien province never were occupied by the Japanese. Esp. Fukien politically wasn't important

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

with this start line much of the good defence lines of china are broken. With current rules, the only sensible thing for china to do would be to give up quite a large amount of land and try to hold some lines more to the rear.

I really, really think mWIF has to change the setup order or move order in the china theatre. With such a mobile front it's just to much of an advantage for japan to set up with enourmous flexibility, and THEN move first with guaranteed fine weather. In WiF this doesn't matter that much because the line will mostly be continous, all hexes wil be held. China gets to set the line and Japan get's to pick a spot to attack, and little manouvre is possible.

But in mWIF, it's a war of manouvre, and since Japan gets last setup plus first moves, China is forced to give up a LOT of ground (to avoid guaranteed disaster). If there is no willingness to fix setup/move order I suggest we move the start line quite a bit east to compensate for the inevitable initial gains for japan. After all, the lines as shown show the extent of japanese lines, but historically there were significant chinese units on the "wrong side" of the line shown.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Pakhoi
Ok, then it should be 1 hex.

Concerning Nanning:
Frontline here quite often changed:

-24.11.39 Jap took Nanning (Haninan/Nanning Offensive Spring-Autumn 39 to isolate National government from its seaports.)
-30.10.40 Chin retook Nanning (counteroffensive since Winter 39)
-20.11.44 Jap took Nanning (Operation Ichigo, Kweilin-Liuchow sector, to establish continental line of communication )
-27.5.45 Chin retook it (counter offensive)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

Pakhoi
Ok, then it should be 1 hex.

Concerning Nanning:
Frontline here quite often changed:

-24.11.39 Jap took Nanning (Haninan/Nanning Offensive Spring-Autumn 39 to isolate National government from its seaports.)
-30.10.40 Chin retook Nanning (counteroffensive since Winter 39)
-20.11.44 Jap took Nanning (Operation Ichigo, Kweilin-Liuchow sector, to establish continental line of communication )
-27.5.45 Chin retook it (counter offensive)

So, Finally, Nanning is never controlled by Japan at the start of the WiF FE scenarios. I also remove the control of the 2 hexes S of Nanning. I added the control of the peninsula to the east of Pakhoi, who seems to have been Japanese from 1938.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: wosung
Pakhoi
Ok, then it should be 1 hex.

Concerning Nanning:
Frontline here quite often changed:

-24.11.39 Jap took Nanning (Haninan/Nanning Offensive Spring-Autumn 39 to isolate National government from its seaports.)
-30.10.40 Chin retook Nanning (counteroffensive since Winter 39)
-20.11.44 Jap took Nanning (Operation Ichigo, Kweilin-Liuchow sector, to establish continental line of communication )
-27.5.45 Chin retook it (counter offensive)

So, Finally, Nanning is never controlled by Japan at the start of the WiF FE scenarios. I also remove the control of the 2 hexes S of Nanning. I added the control of the peninsula to the east of Pakhoi, who seems to have been Japanese from 1938.

What about J/A 1940?

quote:


Yes, Missed the Bus (1940 startlines) should have Nanning under Japanese control.