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Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings

 
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Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/26/2007 11:27:30 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		These are the current ratings for my WW2 database for the "Infantry and Support Troops" section. Currently 263 equipment slots. I am currently pleased with these ratings and plan to use them for initial playtesting unless you have any concerns about them. Please bring any concerns to my attention.

Improv Explosives Team AP= 4 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Sniper Team AP= 10 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 3
Flamethrower Team AP= 24 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Demolition Team AP= 16 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Lt Mortar Team AP= 11 AT= 0.8 AA= 0 DV= 2
BAR Team AP= 8 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
MG34 LMG Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
MG42 LMG Team AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
ATR Team AP= 1 AT= 2.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
ATM Team AP= 1 AT= 6.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Cavalry ATR Team AP= 1 AT= 2.0 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry MG34 Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry MG42 Team AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Motorcycle LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
Motorcycle MG34 Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
Motorcycle MG42 Team AP= 15 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT43 Team AP= 6 AT= 8.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT44 Team AP= 7 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT45 Team AP= 7 AT= 15.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Civilian Group AP= 1 AT= 0.1 AA= 0 DV= 3
Civil Police AP= 7 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Military Police AP= 7 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Support Group AP= 1 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 3
Command Group AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 2
Engineer Squad AP= 28 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 10
Railroad Repair Crew AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Ferry Bridging Team AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Porter Squad AP= 1 AT= 0.1 AA= 0 DV= 2
Irregular Squad (assorted firearms) AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 6
Irregular Squad IE AP= 20 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 6
Irreg Cavalry Sqd (assorted firearms) AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 5
Irreg Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 20 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 5
Light Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Rifle Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades) AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 36 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 42 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATR AP= 38 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 38 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 44 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 46 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 48 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATR AP= 44 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 44 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 50 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 52 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades) AP= 33 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light SMG Squad IE AP= 37 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades + LMG) AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad ATR AP= 39 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad IE AP= 49 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad Mtr AP= 55 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad ATR AP= 45 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad ATM AP= 45 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Assault Rifle Squad (assault rifles + grenades) AP= 41 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Assault Rifle Squad IE AP= 45 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad (assault rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 47 AT= AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad IE AP= 51 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 57 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad ATM AP= 47 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 53 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy AssltRifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad Snp AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Snp AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Dem AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Flm AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Snp AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Dem AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Flm AP= 59 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades) AP= 33 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad IE AP= 37 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad Snp AP= 42 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Snp AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Dem AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Flm AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad IE AP= 49 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Mtr AP= 55 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Snp AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad ATM AP= 45 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Dem AP= 61 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Flm AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd (assault rifles + grenades) AP= 41 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd IE AP= 45 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Snp AP= 50 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 47 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd IE AP= 51 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Mtr AP= 57 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Snp AP= 56 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd ATM AP= 47 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Dem AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Flm AP= 71 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT43 AP= 53 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT44 AP= 54 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT45 AP= 55 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 53 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Snp AP= 62 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Dem AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Flm AP= 77 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad (rifles + grenades + demolitions) AP= 39 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad LMG AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad Flm AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd (rifles + grenades + demolitions + LMG) AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd IE AP= 49 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd LMG AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd Mtr AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd Flm AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd ATM AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + demolitions) AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad IE AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad LMG AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad Mtr AP= 57 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad Flm AP= 71 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad ATM AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT43 AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT44 AP= 54 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT45 AP= 55 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + demolitions + LMG) AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd LMG AP= 61 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd Flm AP= 77 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Cavalry Sqd (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Light Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt SMG Cavalry Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades) AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt SMG Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 36 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 42 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd Mtr AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd ATR AP= 38 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd ATM AP= 38 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT43 AP= 44 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT44 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT45 AP= 46 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd IE AP= 48 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd Mtr AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd ATR AP= 44 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd ATM AP= 44 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT43 AP= 50 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT44 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT45 AP= 52 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt Motorcycle Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Lt Motorcycle Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 8


Here is an example of a U.S. Ranger Company at Normandy, June 1944
The company is composed of 12 squads. Here is an approximation based on their historical organization:
6x SMG Recon Squad Dem (these are the standard Ranger squads )
2x Hvy SMG Recon Sqd Snp (these are the sniper/MG support squads)
2x SMG Recon Squad Mtr (these are the mortar support squads)
2x SMG Recon Squad HEAT44 (these are the bazooka support squads)



< Message edited by vahauser -- 10/26/2007 11:29:18 AM >

_____________________________
Post #: 1
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/26/2007 9:04:19 PM   
wolflars

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

These are the current ratings for my WW2 database for the "Infantry and Support Troops" section. Currently 263 equipment slots. I am currently pleased with these ratings and plan to use them for initial playtesting unless you have any concerns about them. Please bring any concerns to my attention.

Improv Explosives Team AP= 4 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Sniper Team AP= 10 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 3
Flamethrower Team AP= 24 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Demolition Team AP= 16 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Lt Mortar Team AP= 11 AT= 0.8 AA= 0 DV= 2
BAR Team AP= 8 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
MG34 LMG Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
MG42 LMG Team AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
ATR Team AP= 1 AT= 2.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
ATM Team AP= 1 AT= 6.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Cavalry ATR Team AP= 1 AT= 2.0 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry MG34 Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Cavalry MG42 Team AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 1
Motorcycle LMG Team AP= 9 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
Motorcycle MG34 Team AP= 12 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
Motorcycle MG42 Team AP= 15 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT43 Team AP= 6 AT= 8.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT44 Team AP= 7 AT= 12.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
HEAT45 Team AP= 7 AT= 15.0 AA= 0 DV= 2
Civilian Group AP= 1 AT= 0.1 AA= 0 DV= 3
Civil Police AP= 7 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Military Police AP= 7 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Support Group AP= 1 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 3
Command Group AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 2
Engineer Squad AP= 28 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 10
Railroad Repair Crew AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Ferry Bridging Team AP= 3 AT= 0.2 AA= 0 DV= 5
Porter Squad AP= 1 AT= 0.1 AA= 0 DV= 2
Irregular Squad (assorted firearms) AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 6
Irregular Squad IE AP= 20 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 6
Irreg Cavalry Sqd (assorted firearms) AP= 14 AT= 0.4 AA= 0 DV= 5
Irreg Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 20 AT= 4.0 AA= 0 DV= 5
Light Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Rifle Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades) AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 36 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 42 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATR AP= 38 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 38 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 44 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 46 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd (semi-automatic rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd IE AP= 48 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATR AP= 44 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 44 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 50 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Semi-Auto Rifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 52 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades) AP= 33 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light SMG Squad IE AP= 37 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades + LMG) AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad ATR AP= 39 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad (SMGs + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad IE AP= 49 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad Mtr AP= 55 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad ATR AP= 45 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad ATM AP= 45 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Assault Rifle Squad (assault rifles + grenades) AP= 41 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Assault Rifle Squad IE AP= 45 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad (assault rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 47 AT= AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad IE AP= 51 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad Mtr AP= 57 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad ATM AP= 47 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 53 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy AssltRifle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Recon Squad Snp AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Snp AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Dem AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad Flm AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Snp AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Dem AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad Flm AP= 59 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades) AP= 33 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad IE AP= 37 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt SMG Recon Squad Snp AP= 42 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Snp AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Dem AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad Flm AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Recon Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad IE AP= 49 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Mtr AP= 55 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Snp AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad ATM AP= 45 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Dem AP= 61 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad Flm AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Rcn Squad HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd (assault rifles + grenades) AP= 41 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd IE AP= 45 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Lt Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Snp AP= 50 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 47 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd IE AP= 51 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Mtr AP= 57 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Snp AP= 56 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd ATM AP= 47 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Dem AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd Flm AP= 71 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT43 AP= 53 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT44 AP= 54 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Asslt-Rifle Recon Sqd HEAT45 AP= 55 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd (assault rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 53 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Snp AP= 62 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Dem AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd Flm AP= 77 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy Asslt-Rifle Rcn Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad (rifles + grenades + demolitions) AP= 39 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad IE AP= 43 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad LMG AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad Mtr AP= 49 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad Flm AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad ATM AP= 39 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT43 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT44 AP= 46 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Assault Squad HEAT45 AP= 47 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd (rifles + grenades + demolitions + LMG) AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd IE AP= 49 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd LMG AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd Mtr AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd Flm AP= 69 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd ATM AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT43 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT44 AP= 52 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Heavy Assault Sqd HEAT45 AP= 53 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + demolitions) AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad IE AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad LMG AP= 55 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad Mtr AP= 57 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad Flm AP= 71 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad ATM AP= 47 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT43 AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT44 AP= 54 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
SMG Assault Squad HEAT45 AP= 55 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + demolitions + LMG) AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd IE AP= 57 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd LMG AP= 61 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd Mtr AP= 63 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd Flm AP= 77 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd ATM AP= 53 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT43 AP= 59 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT44 AP= 60 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Hvy SMG Assault Sqd HEAT45 AP= 61 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 10
Light Cavalry Sqd (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Light Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Cavalry Squad HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy Cavalry Squad HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt SMG Cavalry Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades) AP= 32 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt SMG Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 36 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 38 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd IE AP= 42 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd Mtr AP= 48 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd ATR AP= 38 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd ATM AP= 38 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT43 AP= 44 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT44 AP= 45 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
SMG Cavalry Sqd HEAT45 AP= 46 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd (SMGs/semi-auto rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 44 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd IE AP= 48 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd Mtr AP= 54 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd ATR AP= 44 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd ATM AP= 44 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT43 AP= 50 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT44 AP= 51 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Hvy SMG Cav Sqd HEAT45 AP= 52 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 7
Lt Motorcycle Squad (rifles + grenades) AP= 23 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Lt Motorcycle Squad IE AP= 27 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd (rifles + grenades + LMG) AP= 29 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd IE AP= 33 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd Mtr AP= 39 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd ATR AP= 29 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd ATM AP= 29 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 35 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 36 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Motorcycle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 37 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd (rifles + grenades + 2xLMG) AP= 35 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd IE AP= 39 AT= 4.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd Mtr AP= 45 AT= 1.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd ATR AP= 35 AT= 2.4 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd ATM AP= 35 AT= 6.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT43 AP= 41 AT= 8.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT44 AP= 42 AT= 12.0 AA= 1 DV= 8
Hvy Motorcycle Sqd HEAT45 AP= 43 AT= 15.0 AA= 1 DV= 8


Here is an example of a U.S. Ranger Company at Normandy, June 1944
The company is composed of 12 squads. Here is an approximation based on their historical organization:
6x SMG Recon Squad Dem (these are the standard Ranger squads )
2x Hvy SMG Recon Sqd Snp (these are the sniper/MG support squads)
2x SMG Recon Squad Mtr (these are the mortar support squads)
2x SMG Recon Squad HEAT44 (these are the bazooka support squads)




Very nice. Hopefully one of our resident TOAW "number crunchers" can take a close look at these for critique. I have always felt the Infantry were seriously mis-represented in this game (then again I spent a lot of years in the infantry so....). In fact, when the first TOAW came out so many years ago, I whined about it quite a bit to Mr. Norm himself. That, and I had serious problems with the supply model (he never did give a satisfactory answer regarding asset sharing, ie trucks, that did not simply mean arbitrary). Although some but not all of these issues have been looked at by the TOAD team, hopefully they will continue to do so.

Anyhow, nice work Van, I am glad to see you didn't do too many of the "fire teams" you wanted to earlier. I think that would have created too many density issues.

At a glance, some of your values seem high to me, but I suppose this is intentional given that you intend the entire database be used.

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 2
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/26/2007 11:09:25 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		wolflars,

I agree that some of the AP values seem a bit high for the infantry.  On the other hand, the AP values for my AFVs seem a little low.  My spreadsheet seems to want to bring the AP values for infantry and AFVs closer together than in standard TOAW III.

I chose to raise the Defense values of cavalry and motorcycles by 1 point each.  I did this because my playing experience with Steel Panthers tells me that cavalry and motorcycles are a little tougher to kill than standard TOAW III portrays them.

Also, I'm going to try out golden delicious's idea about direct-fire heavy weapons and give them a range of 1 and shell weights.  If it works, then that will be a way to get heavier firepower out of my AFVs.  I hope it works.  I suspect that the person(s) who did the original TOAW III AFV AP ratings did not take ammunition loads carried by the AFV into account and only looked at weapon size.  My AFV AP ratings are weighted by the amount of HE ammunition carried by the AFV.

Anyway, as soon as I get these ratings entered into my database (I think it will take weeks to do this), then I'll test some battles using just infantry and AFVs and artillery.  I can do this without having to enter all the air and naval units which should save some time.  I'll enter the air and naval equipment last, after I have the ground ratings tested.

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Post #: 3
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/27/2007 12:06:23 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		The range of AP values does seem too large. You will probably get extremely high losses during AP combat. Also, if you do this, then artillery will need to be adjusted so that it remains proportionate. This will further exacerbate the losses to soft targets, unless you severely increase the attrition divider. If you do that, then the anti-armor combat will suffer due to lower losses, leading to turn burn. In short, you will probably ruin the balance of the combat model.

But hey...you bought the game. It's yours, so feel free to tinker. Let us know how it goes.

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 4
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/27/2007 12:15:22 AM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Why doesn't arty have AT capabilities?

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 5
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/27/2007 12:25:32 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		JAMiAM,

I'm going to run a quick test this weekend using only a few unit types with my new spreadsheet values.  Then I'll run a comparative test using standard TOAW III units.  I'll use 4 AFV types (Pz IIF, Pz IVD, M4 105, JSU-152), and I'll use 2 infantry types (rifle squad and SMG AT).  I'll run 100 combats of each test and post the results.

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Post #: 6
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/27/2007 2:52:21 AM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Why doesn't arty have AT capabilities?


It certainly can have them: I've assigned artillery modest AT values in my scenarios and it's worked quite well.

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(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 7
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 10/27/2007 12:53:20 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Karri,

Steel Panthers gives penetration data for HE rounds in terms of millimeters penetration.  For instance, a German 75mm field howitzer has an HE penetration of 23mm, their 105mm howizter HE round can penetrate 34mm, and their 150mm howitzer can penetrate 52mm of armor.

These are not trivial penetration values.  For instance, a German 150mm HE round that simply hits a Soviet BT-7 tank anywhere will seriously damage it, if not destroy it outright.  Even their 105mm and 75mm HE rounds can destroy a Soviet BT-7.

HE rounds from naval guns are even more devastating.  HE rounds from large naval guns can easily penetrate 100mm of armor, or even more (depending on the size of the shell).  And even if an HE round from a large naval gun doesn't penetrate, it might still simply blow the tank apart from the blast (much like 500lb bombs from P-47s and P-38s simply blew Tiger and Panther tanks apart).  Who cares if the round didn't "penetrate" if the tank is flipped onto its back and its turret is blown 20 yards away?

Anyway, the data is out there if you want to explore the antiarmor capabilities of HE rounds.  However, what you decide to do with that data, and how TOAW III can actually deal with that data might prove more problematic.

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Post #: 8
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/1/2007 1:47:11 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

HE rounds from naval guns are even more devastating.


Yeah- but unlikely to hit.

This is one of the problems with these things. Yes, an artillery peice can knock out a tank- but the guns just aren't designed to be fired at a target as small as a single vehicle- nor are the crews trained to do it in most cases. It can be done, but it's not like using a proper AT gun.

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(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 9
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/1/2007 3:48:10 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		golden delicious,

Field artillery of many nations during WW2 were issued anti-armor rounds.  For instance, US Army 105mm howitzers were issued HEAT rounds.  Admittedly, they weren't used very often, but they were used.  For example, during the Battle of the Bulge, US Army 155mm field guns fired over open sights using armor-piercing ammunition against German AFVs.  The simple fact that those 155mm field guns even had armor-piercing rounds to begin with shows that, while uncommon, the field artillery could, and did, engage enemy AFVs directly.  And this practice was not limited to the US Army.

Also, even a near miss by a large naval gun, or bomb, will likely knock out most AFVs simply due to the concussive effects of the blast on the crew (in addition to various components such as optics and radios, etc.) as well as the large crater made by the explosion.  So, a direct hit isn't terribly important when a 1500lb naval round or a 500lb bomb is involved.

I agree with you that a "proper" antitank gun is better suited for antitank action.  But other artillery should not be marginalized in this regard.


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Post #: 10
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/1/2007 5:28:04 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Not to mention the not so heavily armored vehicles. Currently, AFAIK, artillery does no damage to those either.

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 11
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/1/2007 5:36:56 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Not to mention the not so heavily armored vehicles. Currently, AFAIK, artillery does no damage to those either.


There's something about excess AP fire being partially converted into AT fire. JAMiAM will illuminate us, probably.

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Post #: 12
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/1/2007 6:47:12 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Not to mention the not so heavily armored vehicles. Currently, AFAIK, artillery does no damage to those either.


There's something about excess AP fire being partially converted into AT fire. JAMiAM will illuminate us, probably.

AP fire, in sufficient quantities, will destroy armored targets, and this is irrespective of the armor ratings of the targets. That's because 10% of the AP firepower is used in a side calculation, as per regular AP fire, but instead is targetted at armored equipment.

Hope that makes sense. I haven't yet finished my second cup of coffee...

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 13
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/3/2007 7:40:22 AM   
bstarr


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline 		Vahauser,
Oh, wow. That is outstanding. I am so going to use that information. Any idea how different squads from different countries would compare. (WWII era). In squad firepower (my opinion, anyway) the Springfields and the BAR give the Americans a slight edge, next the Germans, then the Brits, and then everyone else. ideas? suggestions?

P.S. You may have already answered my question. I just noticed how semi-auto rifle was listed separate from other rifles. You're a step ahead of me.

< Message edited by bstarr -- 11/3/2007 7:41:56 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/3/2007 7:42:41 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Oh, wow. That is outstanding. I am so going to use that information. Any idea how different squads from different countries would compare. (WWII era). In squad firepower (my opinion, anyway) the Springfields and the BAR give the Americans a slight edge...


!


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 11/3/2007 7:45:04 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/3/2007 9:29:15 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		bstarr,

I've been drawing heavily on the organizational data from Steel Panthers regarding the wide variety of WW2 infantry squads.  I would not rate the Americans as the most heavily armed infantry squads in WW2.  The Americans got most of their firepower from their supporting artillery (and airpower).  In terms of infantry squads, I would rate the Germans as #1 in terms of overall squad firepower.  Their MG42 light machineguns were the best overall squad weapons in the war.  Also, some infantry squads contained light mortar teams, which is some serious firepower at the squad level.

But, as others have pointed out, the quality of the squad is usually more important than its weapons.  We can debate round and round regarding squad firepower and get nowhere.  Yet, the fact is that highly skilled veteran squads will outperform less skilled and less experienced squads most of the time, even if the veteran squad has less intrinsic firepower than the inexperienced squad.  The Germans themselves found this out to be true.  The Germans kept adding more and more firepower to their Volksgrenadier squads (panzerfausts, SMGs, MG42s, etc.), but the extra firepower was not enough to make up for their lack of skill and experience.

The bottom line is this: during WW2 the infantry did most of the dying and the artillery did most of the killing.  The USA had the most proficient and effective artillery in WW2.  That is where the real firepower was.  American artillery fire-control techniques and response times were second to none.  The Germans never feared the American infantry, but they feared the American artillery (and airpower even more).

As far as the sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings I've posted are concerned, my intent was to provide scenario designers with as comprehensive a set of WW2 squad types as possible without using too many equipment slots.  But even with all the choices I've provided, I've still found it impossible to recreate many historical formations on the platoon, and sometimes even the company level. 

The good news is that at the battalion/regiment/division levels, though, the choices I've provided can be creatively combined to achieve fairly realistic approximations of historical WW2 formations at those levels.  And since TOAW seems to work best at the battalion/regiment/divisional scale, then that is the goal I'm striving to achieve. 

The bad news is that I'm behind schedule.  I wanted to have my database ready by Christmas, but some friends of mine have asked me to play in a tournament.  And so for the next 60 days or so, my database development time is going on hold.  And since something else will probably come up between now and then (sigh), I'm now hoping, hoping, to have the database ready by late spring or early summer of 2008.



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Post #: 16
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/3/2007 5:36:45 PM   
bstarr


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

bstarr,

I've been drawing heavily on the organizational data from Steel Panthers regarding the wide variety of WW2 infantry squads.  I would not rate the Americans as the most heavily armed infantry squads in WW2.  The Americans got most of their firepower from their supporting artillery (and airpower).  In terms of infantry squads, I would rate the Germans as #1 in terms of overall squad firepower.  Their MG42 light machineguns were the best overall squad weapons in the war.  Also, some infantry squads contained light mortar teams, which is some serious firepower at the squad level.

But, as others have pointed out, the quality of the squad is usually more important than its weapons.  We can debate round and round regarding squad firepower and get nowhere.  Yet, the fact is that highly skilled veteran squads will outperform less skilled and less experienced squads most of the time, even if the veteran squad has less intrinsic firepower than the inexperienced squad.  The Germans themselves found this out to be true.  The Germans kept adding more and more firepower to their Volksgrenadier squads (panzerfausts, SMGs, MG42s, etc.), but the extra firepower was not enough to make up for their lack of skill and experience.

The bottom line is this: during WW2 the infantry did most of the dying and the artillery did most of the killing.  The USA had the most proficient and effective artillery in WW2.  That is where the real firepower was.  American artillery fire-control techniques and response times were second to none.  The Germans never feared the American infantry, but they feared the American artillery (and airpower even more).

As far as the sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings I've posted are concerned, my intent was to provide scenario designers with as comprehensive a set of WW2 squad types as possible without using too many equipment slots.  But even with all the choices I've provided, I've still found it impossible to recreate many historical formations on the platoon, and sometimes even the company level. 

The good news is that at the battalion/regiment/division levels, though, the choices I've provided can be creatively combined to achieve fairly realistic approximations of historical WW2 formations at those levels.  And since TOAW seems to work best at the battalion/regiment/divisional scale, then that is the goal I'm striving to achieve. 

The bad news is that I'm behind schedule.  I wanted to have my database ready by Christmas, but some friends of mine have asked me to play in a tournament.  And so for the next 60 days or so, my database development time is going on hold.  And since something else will probably come up between now and then (sigh), I'm now hoping, hoping, to have the database ready by late spring or early summer of 2008.



I've decided to hold up on my scenario until I see more of your excellent database. Any idea when you'll post the support weapons? I'm curious as to how you will rate the various MMGs and HMGs.

< Message edited by bstarr -- 11/3/2007 5:53:03 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/13/2007 3:45:42 AM   
bstarr


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline 		I noticed that AT ratings were often decimal ratings instead of whole numbers. Does that work? Would it work for AA as well?

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Post #: 18
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 11/13/2007 3:47:51 AM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/24/2007
Status: offline 		Id be very interested if you found some values whereby you fill up a unit, and find that in general, it is able to attack successfully against an identical unit which is defending.

(in reply to bstarr)
Post #: 19
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/2/2008 8:54:21 PM   
Central Blue

 

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline 		vahauser,

what became of your spreadsheet? Still working on it?

If I understand correctly... and if I wanted to roll my own from your values... a squad of semi-automatic rifles (Garand) and three BAR's is added cumulatively so that you end up with AP = 56? An assault rifle squad (StG 44) with a light mg42 would add up to AP=61? I gather that the AT, AA, and DV values are not cumulative in your system?

thanks

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Post #: 20
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/3/2008 1:00:20 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline 		Any chance that you can post this data in a spreadsheet format? Would make side-by-side comparison much easier.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 21
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/8/2008 5:45:28 AM   
wmorris

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline 		Golden Delicious said:
quote:

This is one of the problems with these things. Yes, an artillery peice can knock out a tank- but the guns just aren't designed to be fired at a target as small as a single vehicle- nor are the crews trained to do it in most cases. It can be done, but it's not like using a proper AT gun.


Normal German battery/battalion practice was to consider the placement of one piece of a light howitzer battery or battalion with particular attention to direct antitank protection, with this piece presumably receiving any of the sparse AP hollow charge or sabot rounds. Also, early in the war, one of the preferred and most successful methods of dealing with KV tanks was solid shot from a 10cm medium gun (and later its APCBC round). Raus (extremely underrated), Guderian and others mention this in their books. Direct fire was of course not the desired doctrinal usage of field guns, but they had to plan and utilize everything at hand in antimechanized defense.

JaMiAM said:
quote:

AP fire, in sufficient quantities, will destroy armored targets, and this is irrespective of the armor ratings of the targets. That's because 10% of the AP firepower is used in a side calculation, as per regular AP fire, but instead is targetted at armored equipment.


Indirect fire effectiveness against tank masses was attested to repeatedly by WWII authors. This seldon scored direct hits and destroyed armored vehicles, but inflicted lesser damage to running gear, exhaust, vision blocks- making the tank "mission incapable" or uninhabitable. Even 8cm mortars, 2cm flak guns and MG43's, though basically incapable of knocking out a T34, could thwart a tank attack by working together: the tanks advance through choking smoke, blinded and stripped of escorting infantry while the turret is played like a hell-gong with 20mm - the dazed and deafened crew unable to monitor for close assault by individual infantrymen. In real combat, this often resulted in a "unit x breaks off attack" with few irrevocable losses to the attacker

My impression from the game so far is that direct defensive fire from artillery vs tanks lacks sufficent effectiveness, while indirect fire has about the right effect on the overall combat outcome without disabling as many vehicles as history would indicate; my experience with TOAW III is limited. In the first case, I am wondering whether this is due to the defenders not getting as many shots as the attackers because of equipment type, whereas in reality they would probably get MORE shots than the attackers during their approach. Is this what is happening?


Impatiently awaiting the translation of Heinrici's monograph




(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 22
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/9/2008 5:21:50 AM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		There's also the point that a battery can be deployed for AT work -- but it is then not going to be a battery that is deployed particularly well for its conventional role. You gotcher regiment of twenty four British 25 pounders: you can have them in the rear and grouped together by battery and all registered and responding to the commands of the forward observer, or you can have them scattered along the front in positions offering good visibility and concealment, ready to stop a tank attack with AP fire.

You can't have both at once. Of course, in OPART you can -- or could, if the full AT ability of these pieces was allowed for. Your regiment of 25 pounders can utilize all of what was in fact the considerable AT ability of the piece when the panzers attack from the hex to the southwest -- and then, in the same turn, support an infantry attack occurring two hexes away to the northeast.

I'm not talking about the effect of conventional indirect artillery fire on armor. These pieces -- particularly such multi-role pieces as the 25 pounder -- had AT shells, and could be used literally as AT guns. Thing is, they couldn't fish and cut bait at the same time. While it would be neat if such pieces could be deployed so as to make use of their AT ability -- the French and Germans were also driven to press their field artillery into this role -- if so deployed they shouldn't simultaneously be able to deliver indirect artillery fire.

The same thought, by the way, would also apply to AA guns. Even in armies that actually used their AA guns in ground combat, it would be to some extent question of one or the other. The AA couldn't simultaneously support infantry in combat and protect that road junction a kilometer to the rear from air attack.

< Message edited by ColinWright -- 7/9/2008 5:22:32 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/10/2008 9:56:14 PM   
Central Blue

 

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know about artillery...

I have read this about Salerno:

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/cruisers/cl41.txt

quote:

When one of her scouting planes spotted 35 German tanks concealed in a thicket adjacent to Red Beach, PHILADELPHIA's guns took them under fire and destroyed seven of them before they escaped
to the rear.


IIRC, naval gunfire was pretty darn hard on tanks in Operation Husky as well.

_____________________________

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Post #: 24
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/10/2008 10:29:02 PM   
wmorris

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 5/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

While it would be neat if such pieces could be deployed so as to make use of their AT ability -- the French and Germans were also driven to press their field artillery into this role -- if so deployed they shouldn't simultaneously be able to deliver indirect artillery fire.


Tasty. Call this Deploy:Direct/Ground Fire ["G" on the right of the counter].

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 25
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/12/2008 9:47:30 AM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

I don't know about artillery...

I have read this about Salerno:

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/cruisers/cl41.txt

quote:

When one of her scouting planes spotted 35 German tanks concealed in a thicket adjacent to Red Beach, PHILADELPHIA's guns took them under fire and destroyed seven of them before they escaped
to the rear.


IIRC, naval gunfire was pretty darn hard on tanks in Operation Husky as well.


The problem I've had with ships' guns is that they work just as well 30 km inland as they do on stuff right on the coast. That is not what happened. It'd be great if the effect of naval gunfire inland could be attenuated in the scenario editor. In most of the cases I'm aware of, naval gunfire was dramatically effective within a kilometer or five kilometers of the coast -- but rarely used to much effect further inland. Obviously, post WW2 US usage would furnish exceptions -- but that's not usually what people are trying to simulate.


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 7/12/2008 9:48:20 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/12/2008 3:41:47 PM   
sstevens06


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

There's also the point that a battery can be deployed for AT work -- but it is then not going to be a battery that is deployed particularly well for its conventional role. You gotcher regiment of twenty four British 25 pounders: you can have them in the rear and grouped together by battery and all registered and responding to the commands of the forward observer, or you can have them scattered along the front in positions offering good visibility and concealment, ready to stop a tank attack with AP fire.

You can't have both at once. Of course, in OPART you can -- or could, if the full AT ability of these pieces was allowed for. Your regiment of 25 pounders can utilize all of what was in fact the considerable AT ability of the piece when the panzers attack from the hex to the southwest -- and then, in the same turn, support an infantry attack occurring two hexes away to the northeast.

I'm not talking about the effect of conventional indirect artillery fire on armor. These pieces -- particularly such multi-role pieces as the 25 pounder -- had AT shells, and could be used literally as AT guns. Thing is, they couldn't fish and cut bait at the same time. While it would be neat if such pieces could be deployed so as to make use of their AT ability -- the French and Germans were also driven to press their field artillery into this role -- if so deployed they shouldn't simultaneously be able to deliver indirect artillery fire.

The same thought, by the way, would also apply to AA guns. Even in armies that actually used their AA guns in ground combat, it would be to some extent question of one or the other. The AA couldn't simultaneously support infantry in combat and protect that road junction a kilometer to the rear from air attack.



This is a problem I've wrestled with in several of my post-WW2 scenarios. A number of Cold War-era Soviet towed artillery pieces were specifically designed to be effective anti-tank guns. The widely deployed M-46 130mm gun, D-30 and D-74 122mm howitzers, as well as others were equipped with optics for direct fire and several types of AT ammunition, mostly HEAT. In fact, the M-46 and D-74 were such formidable AT weapons they were mounted on self-propelled chasses based on the T-62 (IT-130) and T-55 (IT-122) tanks respectively, making them the only post-WW2 manufactured Soviet "tank destroyers."

I kludged a solution to this dilemma in my Berlin Crisis 1961 scenario by creating AT versions of these artillery pieces in BioEd and then equipping Soviet artillery regiments and brigades with these AT guns at a ratio of 1:3 to their complement of artillery versions of these guns and howitzers (e.g., a Soviet artillery regiment equipped with 36 x M-46 130mm guns would also have 12 x M-46 130mm AT guns). Not very elegant but it was the only way to simulate the very real AT capabilities/doctrinal usage of Soviet towed artillery of the period.

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 27
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/12/2008 10:16:02 PM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sstevens06

This is a problem I've wrestled with in several of my post-WW2 scenarios. A number of Cold War-era Soviet towed artillery pieces were specifically designed to be effective anti-tank guns. The widely deployed M-46 130mm gun, D-30 and D-74 122mm howitzers, as well as others were equipped with optics for direct fire and several types of AT ammunition, mostly HEAT. In fact, the M-46 and D-74 were such formidable AT weapons they were mounted on self-propelled chasses based on the T-62 (IT-130) and T-55 (IT-122) tanks respectively, making them the only post-WW2 manufactured Soviet "tank destroyers."

I kludged a solution to this dilemma in my Berlin Crisis 1961 scenario by creating AT versions of these artillery pieces in BioEd and then equipping Soviet artillery regiments and brigades with these AT guns at a ratio of 1:3 to their complement of artillery versions of these guns and howitzers (e.g., a Soviet artillery regiment equipped with 36 x M-46 130mm guns would also have 12 x M-46 130mm AT guns). Not very elegant but it was the only way to simulate the very real AT capabilities/doctrinal usage of Soviet towed artillery of the period.



In Seelowe I've simply given AT abilities to the British 25 pdr, 18/25 pdr, 18 pdr, and French 75's (there were some). 5, 2, 2, 2, and 2, as I recall. The thing is, the Briton is going to regret it if he makes a habit of sticking his artillery in the front line -- and the AP values aren't really all that great anyway. Plus, it's not a tank-dominated scenario. As a rule, the Briton is better off using his artillery conventionally -- but the ability is there for emergencies.


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Post #: 28
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/20/2008 9:42:36 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
In Seelowe I've simply . . .


Yes, you have done a "simply".

Once again the mysterious Seelowe scenario is quoted . . . maybe someday it will be available in a market near you so that everyone can enjoy the Colinisque version of history and warfare.

My copy of Seelow is from January 2008 . . . if there is a newer copy please send it my way, or, better yet, make it available to the general public. After all, if you’re going to use it as an example, then everyone should be able to have access to the reference.

Also, I wonder how you would react if someone else was quoting a scenario for which you did not have access. “wi______” comes to mind.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 29
RE: Sample "Infantry and Support Troops" ratings - 7/20/2008 3:21:43 PM   
ColinWright

 

Posts: 2604
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
In Seelowe I've simply . . .


Yes, you have done a "simply".

Once again the mysterious Seelowe scenario is quoted . . . maybe someday it will be available in a market near you so that everyone can enjoy the Colinisque version of history and warfare.

My copy of Seelow is from January 2008 . . . if there is a newer copy please send it my way, or, better yet, make it available to the general public. After all, if you’re going to use it as an example, then everyone should be able to have access to the reference.

Also, I wonder how you would react if someone else was quoting a scenario for which you did not have access. “wi______” comes to mind.

Regards, RhinoBones



Sergeant Sunshine rides again. You shouldn't have a copy of my scenario. If you do, please delete it.

Otherwise, my post wasn't directed at you, so that you feel the need to make a pointlessly hostile comment is revealing. You really are an odious little animal dropping.

Happily, not a very bright one, though. How would I react if someone referenced a scenario I did not have access to? I wouldn't react at all. I suppose if the conversation got really involved, and I was really interested, I might ask politely if I could see a copy.


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 7/20/2008 3:43:50 PM >

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